Ivory Vs Stainless steel

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froznShooter

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I am thinking about a custom cue with an Ivory joint. I have always had stainless on my cues.

How do the two joints differ in playability??

Thanks in advance for any info
 
sky.. said:
Ivory give a softer hit. at least that's what I've read from others.
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In my opinion Ivory does not give a soft hit compared to stainless steel. A Steel collar dampens the hit becuse there is no direct contact between the shaft and the butt. You get little or no feedback.

Ivory is usually installed in a flat face configuration which affords full contact between the cue's butt and the shaft which lends to a crisp hard hit and excellent feedback.

The softest material used for collars are ABS and PVC both of which do not glue well because of their high oil content which actually repels glue. Linen Based Fiber works very well because it glues well.

For a soft hit use a soft tip.

Good Cuemaking,
 
I would say we might be into semantics here. Soft hit to me means it feels more natural and does not have that pingy sound and feel that Stainless has, which is what I call a hard hit. If that is what we mean by softer feel then Ivory has a softer feel.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
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froznShooter said:
I am thinking about a custom cue with an Ivory joint. I have always had stainless on my cues.

How do the two joints differ in playability??

Thanks in advance for any info
Click to expand...

First, there are two types of Ivory Joints, Corded and Solid except for the pin. The corded joint is the most stable of the joints, for the following reasons.

1) Solid Ivory joints will expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity. Subsequently the feel of the cues hit can change. Also with time solid Ivory joints can become brittle and crack due the changes outlined above.

2) The corded Ivory joint is mainly for decoration, and will not effect the cues hit due to expansion and contraction. It is also much more stable long term.

3) The stainless steel joint is very stable, will insure the cues hit remains firm and repeatable at all times. This joint in my opinion has the firmest hit of any joint currently being used.

If I were you, would either stay with your stainless joint or try a wood to wood joint. However, if you must have Ivory, I would go with a Cored joint for longevity and stability.

I hope this helps!!!!

Have a good Night!!!!
 
manwon said:
First, there are two types of Ivory Joints, Corded and Solid except for the pin. The corded joint is the most stable of the joints, for the following reasons.

1) Solid Ivory joints will expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity. Subsequently the feel of the cues hit can change. Also with time solid Ivory joints can become brittle and crack due the changes outlined above.

2) The corded Ivory joint is mainly for decoration, and will not effect the cues hit due to expansion and contraction. It is also much more stable long term.

3) The stainless steel joint is very stable, will insure the cues hit remains firm and repeatable at all times. This joint in my opinion has the firmest hit of any joint currently being used.

If I were you, would either stay with your stainless joint or try a wood to wood joint. However, if you must have Ivory, I would go with a Cored joint for longevity and stability.

I hope this helps!!!!

Have a good Night!!!!
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Like you said, right on. Done both.
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
The softest material used for collars are ABS and PVC both of which do not glue well because of their high oil content which actually repels glue.
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I am surprised to see how often these materials are mentioned in cuemaking threads. Most, if not all, plastics eventually lose their oils due to evaporation, which makes them brittle and subject to fracture. ABS and PVC are probably some of the worst in this regard.

Ken
 
You'd be far better off IMO selling the cue and buying a cue made with the ivory joint. I prefer the sleeved versus the capped type of ivory joint.

Martin

asn130 said:
I have a Schon ltd cue that i am considering getting an ivory joint in. My question is, will i notice a difference in the hit (reduction in the pingy-ness)??

And also, have any of you ever done this to a schon? And if so, what did you think of the hit afterwards?

this is the cue by the way:
http://www.billiardstore.com/schon/gifs/99LTDS/SCH2000-LTD509.jpg
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froznShooter said:
I am thinking about a custom cue with an Ivory joint. I have always had stainless on my cues.

How do the two joints differ in playability??

Thanks in advance for any info
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All things being equal the tip will make a bigger difference than the joint.
 
Murray Tucker said:
All things being equal the tip will make a bigger difference than the joint.
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Mr. Tucker is right, and to add to it. Tips being equal, the ferrule material, type of and quality of installation will make a bigger difference than the joint. However I do believe the joint can affect the overall energy, and tone of a cue. Bad tip, and ferrule in anyway on a nice cue would be like a Ferrari on donuts.
Dennis
 
searingcue said:
Mr. Tucker is right,
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Cay you tell that to my wife?

searingcue said:
and to add to it. Tips being equal, the ferrule material, type of and quality of installation will make a bigger difference than the joint.
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Amen.

searingcue said:
However I do believe the joint can affect the overall energy, and tone of a cue. Bad tip, and ferrule in anyway on a nice cue would be like a Ferrari on donuts.
Dennis
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Another Amen. The whole is equal to the sum of the parts. Joints are given too much credit for cue performance. It takes a total package to make a truly great perfoming cue.
 
Joints

I would have to agree with Arnot. The main difference is in "feedback." If all other factors were equal, tips, ferrules, shaft tapers, etc., the feedback to your gripping hand is quite different in the two joints. It is easier for me personally to have the feedback from the strike. A metal joint prevents info from transferring to my gripping hand (I need all the help I can get!). Your cue also has a different pin/insert configuration, so the hit may be changed minimally, thus what Martin said about just changing cues is also my advice. The vibration of a cue is slowed, or dampened when it encounters any heavy (metal) weight. Hope this helps, Kent
 
i too agree with Arnot and Kent as for the deadening. I also agree with Murray, the tip and ferrule are the components easiest and cheapest to change out and can alter the feel a bunch.
 
Can anyone explain why SS dampens/deadens the feel of the hit?

In my understanding the feel comes from the vibrations sent down the cue like sound waves. Sound travels through maple at about 14,000 ft/s and through stainless steel at about 19,000 ft/s. Just from those numbers it would look like SS is pretty good and transfering vibration from the shaft to the butt. I'm sure there are other effects (like sound crossing the interface between metal and wood) besides the speed sound travels through the material but I don't know what they are.
 
ShaneT58 said:
Can anyone explain why SS dampens/deadens the feel of the hit?

In my understanding the feel comes from the vibrations sent down the cue like sound waves. Sound travels through maple at about 14,000 ft/s and through stainless steel at about 19,000 ft/s. Just from those numbers it would look like SS is pretty good and transfering vibration from the shaft to the butt. I'm sure there are other effects (like sound crossing the interface between metal and wood) besides the speed sound travels through the material but I don't know what they are.
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Thank you Shane, I've always believed, and felt that like mentioned before, that the total sum has more to do with the cues energy, and feel. I've done, a lot of experimenting, testing, including flex amount, and timing measurements. What I've found is that quality machining, fitting, and materials seem to have more to do with a cues end performance, than any single part. Of course there will always be exceptions. Personal preferences, and confidence in what materials you play with in your cue can mean as much to a game as a single component. I happen to play with SS, because I played for 25 years with it, and developed a touch with it. Pass tense:)) I've hit with about every joint out there, and liked most of them. I believe each as a very general rule have there pro's, and con's, pick what you like.
OMO Dennis
 
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