Ivory

[Pii]

Hell, Id shoot an elephant myself.

No issues for me.

Maybe one or two "holier than thou" posters....

J/K

Ken

Oh look its another, Its all about what I want, person talk about "holier than thou"
When your kids ask what an elephant is show them your pool cue.

 

[Pii]

I was watching a show on the history channel about animal extictions. 98% of ALL ANIMALS THAT EVER WALKED the planet are EXTINCT. They said, it is ABNORMAL for a species to not go extinct.

Rg

LOL so lets go kill them all right NOW!!

BTW how many of that 98% was because man shot them for their teeth? (I know there not really teeth so don't even try it)

 

[lfigueroa]

LOL so lets go kill them all right NOW!!

BTW how many of that 98% was because man shot them for their teeth? (I know there not really teeth so don't even try it)

Ears too -- don't forget ears.

I wanted to do my part to ensure that as much of the animal, as possible, is used. So when I visited Ernie yesterday, I asked him to re-wrap my Ginacue with elephant ear leather. Brown to be exact. (Amazing texture.)

It was either that or trunk. (Could have gone with rhino, but he only had it in black, in the shop.)

Anyway, it's a small step, but I feel better for trying.

Lou Figueroa
did I mention the ivory joint protectors
that Ernie is making for me too

 

[rhncue]

LOL so lets go kill them all right NOW!!

BTW how many of that 98% was because man shot them for their teeth? (I know there not really teeth so don't even try it)

Actually, they are teeth, not horns. They are the 2 top canine teeth that most other animals have.

Dick

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I suppose if you murdered someone it won't be any of our business either.
If people have objections to the killing of elephants just so someone can have ivory parts in someones pool cue I think they have a right to try and convince those people not to support a trade that may cause the death of said animal if they so choose.

In short they can support their position in more ways than one and if it wasn't for people like them we probably won't have any elephants left on the planet by now.

oh well, you can return to your selfish, it's all about me, life now.
You'll probably be happy when all the Whales are gone also.

Later

The difference is that we agree with you guys more than you're willing to admit. I'm against the illegal destruction of wildlife just as much as you are. But what you see as destruction if most often considered by me to be game management. In my area, they tried to limit hunting of the deer population for a couple of years, and in turn it led to disease, and wastefull road kills, and in the long run..........a huge reduction in numbers. I'm no elephant hunter, and know very little about elephants myself. I do however trust that when I buy a cue from a respectable US cuemaker, I can trust that he's NOT using ivory that was obtained illegally. Other makers from other countries I don't trust as well, so I would never buy a cue from such a maker because I couldn't be 100% sure that the ivory was legal.
For you and others that know nothing about how I live my life on a day to day basis, how much time I spend to recycle, how much time I volunteer my time with the DOW to insure the preservation of our national parks and habitat concerned, so for you to label me as a POS, or selfish, or whatever does nothing to further your cause. It seems like you guys always end up with the emotional blow ups and name calling that in the end result diminishes your professionalism. People think you're bunch of over emotional, uninformed name throwers because that's what you end up doing most of the time.

Grow up, and don't buy any ivory, don't eat meat, don't use leather gloves, don't put fuel in your cars and leave all the animals alone...................and watch what happens when there is no control. Humans are here to stay, and I would almost agree that it's an unfortunate fact. But as long as we are here, we HAVE and will continue to encroach on wildlife. It is our responsibility to manage it, or else it WILL vanish.

dave

 

[poscdr09]

LOL so lets go kill them all right NOW!!

BTW how many of that 98% was because man shot them for their teeth? (I know there not really teeth so don't even try it)

I would guess a fair amount of em are goners because they taste so good!!! Lemme tell ya, my first trip to panda express was a terrible dissapointment...

In response to the original question at hand, (before PETA got involved) i believe ivory ferrules definately have a very distinctive hit, which personally, I prefer. I have never had a problem with the ferrule becoming brittle or cracking, but I do use a pad b/w ferrule and tip. One of my buddies ferrules did break but he left his cue in the car for 3 days and then broke with it!!

Hope this helps some,

Joe

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Obviously this is one of those topics which arouses strong emotion from some.

I respect the opinions of those who are anti-ivory and I know that their passionate stance comes from a good place, but having said that I think we should all breathe deeply, take a pause and examine some of the pertinent data.

Ivory which has been legally harvested as part of a properly supervised program of thinning herds as needed should IMO, not be so controversial.

Game management programs benefit both elephants and humans.

Is it more humane to do nothing and allow elephant herds to swell to numbers so large that they wind up starving after they have stripped an area clean of all vegetation,including crops for poor and hungry subsistence farmers? Of course, in areas where elephant herds are small or do not pose a problem to themselves, the environment and to humans, there is no need to cull them and governments should do what they can to keep poachers at bay. This sounds sensible to me, so why should it not serve as a middle ground between the opposing camps?

In Southern Africa elephant populations have sky-rocketed to the point where culling alone has not worked and now contraceptive drugs are being tried.

MANAGING AFRICAN ELEPHANT POPULATIONS: ACT OR LET DIE?

Proceedings from an expert consultation on control of wild elephant populations organized by The Faculty of Veterinary Medicine,
Utrecht University, The Netherlands

http://elephantpopulationcontrol.library.uu.nl/paginas/frames.html

 

[grindz]

I'm amazed ....

at the lack of sensitivity from both sides of this. LOL.... J/K...not really...

I AM amazed that we have any wildlife left at all, and that we haven't all killed each other yet.

For all the anti ivory folks you should visit Dieckmans' website and read why he WON'T use ivory. You should then, not just not buy cues with ivory in them but take it to the next level and buy ONLY from those cuemakers who won't use it in anything.... of course while not purchasing from those who do use it. Those acitons will change the paradigm.

For all who say they have to have it.... do the opposite.

Pick your side. Vote with your dollars.

I know which side I'm on, you should too! Apathy isn't a solution. Calling each other names is rarely an adult way to discuss an issue and most definitely won't help get your point accross. JMO


td

 

[Secaucus Fats]

The feasibility of current options for the management of wild elephant populations

IJ Whyte

Kruger National Park, Skukuza 1350, South Africa

There is now ample evidence that in game reserves in which elephants are adequately protected from poaching their numbers will increase to the point where they begin to have negative impacts on biodiversity. Initially this may only affect the structural diversity of habitats but as elephant numbers continue to increase, some other species will be lost from the system. Generally, woodlands are changed to grasslands so that all species which are dependant upon woodland habitats may be extirpated.

The decision whether elephant numbers in any reserve should be limited must be based on the management priorities set for the reserve. If biodiversity is a priority, something must be done to limit the elephant population to a level at which their impacts will not have negative consequences for other species. And if the priorities for such reserves have not been clearly defined, management will be directionless and muddled.

In reserves in which biodiversity has been defined as the management priority, what options are available for managing elephants? Three only – translocation, contraception and culling. While the first two non-lethal options seem more ethically acceptable, they have their problems.

Translocation

Opportunities for translocations are now very limited. Most areas in Southern Africa that could potentially accommodate elephants now have them, while those that still can (e.g. Limpopo National Park in Mozambique), will not be able to take the numbers that need to be moved. While this method of population management may seem to be ethically acceptable it can seldom be established with certainty whether family units are moved intact or some members are left behind. The effects of such separation are not yet well understood.

Contraception

Current contraception technology is of limited value for controlling large populations. While porcine zona pellucida (pZP) vaccines have been shown to be effective and acceptable in elephants, oestrogen (oestradiol-17ß) implants caused behavioural aberrations and other unacceptable post-treatment effects. But regardless, the logistics of both techniques preclude their use. To stabilize an elephant population, 75% of all breeding females (i.e. 35% of the total population) must be constantly under treatment. These animals all require “boosters” at specific times, which means they must be individually locatable and therefore fitted with a radio collar. These requirements all push the financial and logistic costs to an unaffordable level for most conservation agencies.

Sterilization has the major drawback of irreversibility. Any population being regulated in this manner would be severely at risk from epidemics of either poaching or disease and its ability to recover would be greatly impaired if most of the adults (females or males) had been permanently sterilized.

A final problem with all contraception techniques is that they cannot reduce a population in the short term. Once a population has been stabilized by contraception, there will be a time lag before natural mortalities will eventually begin to reduce it.

Culling

Culling is the third option and, currently, is the only one that can solve the problems of over-abundance in a large population. However, it is an extremely emotive subject, particularly when applied to elephants. While culling elephants may be an anathema to some, it is usually seen by those concerned with the maintenance of biodiversity as a necessary evil – one which must be used in situations where translocation and contraception are not implementable.

The advantages of culling are that, in large populations, the over-population problem can be addressed successfully. Also, the processed by-products of culling (meat, hides, ivory, etc.) can be sold profitably to provide conservation activities, such as anti-poaching, with much needed funding. Disadvantages? a certain amount of disturbance to nearby related groups, the degree of which will depend on proximity and will be worst when a large group must be split. However, such disturbance is identical to that which accompanies translocation. The impacts come from the disturbances of the operation itself and from the longer-term effects of the loss of bond group or family members.

The major ethical question associated with culling is: Is it morally justifiable to kill elephants? Some Western cultures may find culling ethically unacceptable. But the question must be asked, whose ethics should apply? To a rural African with little access to protein, an average Westerner, or an animal rights campaigner, ethical elephant management will mean very different things.

While many believe that culling is not ethical, it must be understood that the culling option has to be weighed up against the losses of whole populations of other species. Loss of a species from a system will have its effects on biodiversity and the system’s food webs, and such a loss may even mean the complete extinction of that species. These species losses will occur if elephant numbers are not limited by some means. Therefore one must ask, is it ethical to allow species to be lost from a system when prevention is possible?

 

[snipershot]

Obviously this is one of those topics which arouses strong emotion from some.

I respect the opinions of those who are anti-ivory and I know that their passionate stance comes from a good place, but having said that I think we should all breathe deeply, take a pause and examine some of the pertinent data.

Ivory which has been legally harvested as part of a properly supervised program of thinning herds as needed should IMO, not be so controversial.

Game management programs benefit both elephants and humans.

Is it more humane to do nothing and allow elephant herds to swell to numbers so large that they wind up starving after they have stripped an area clean of all vegetation,including crops for poor and hungry subsistence farmers? Of course, in areas where elephant herds are small or do not pose a problem to themselves, the environment and to humans, there is no need to cull them and governments should do what they can to keep poachers at bay. This sounds sensible to me, so why should it not serve as a middle ground between the opposing camps?

In Southern Africa elephant populations have sky-rocketed to the point where culling alone has not worked and now contraceptive drugs are being tried.

MANAGING AFRICAN ELEPHANT POPULATIONS: ACT OR LET DIE?

Proceedings from an expert consultation on control of wild elephant populations organized by The Faculty of Veterinary Medicine,
Utrecht University, The Netherlands

http://elephantpopulationcontrol.library.uu.nl/paginas/frames.html

Good point. Again, here we have another well informed logical post with some evidence to support it. I still have yet to see any evidence or someone with first-hand knowledge to support the anti-ivory crowd. I am genuinly interested in this topic, and am not picking a side, but Id like some sort of proof that poachers are thinking about selling their freshly harvested tusks to custom pool cue makers! Someone help me out here!




Joe

 

[tattoosbyjay]

What a slanted post.....

Ivory is without a doubt - in my opinion - the best ferrule material there is. It's very sleek, does not get dirty, and has a hit you cannot replicate.

I own many cues, and all but one (maybe two) have ivory ferrules, and I've never killed an elephant. Guess that means you don't have to kill to have one....

It's not brittle, and like anything - yes, it can be subject to crack. My playing cue today has an ivory ferrule on it - with no pad. I use it to play, break, and jump with. I do have a pretty hard break as well.

I've never broken, cracked, or damaged an ivory ferrule.

i agree %100 allmy cues have ivory ferrules inmy opinion they give me better feed back and feel never had a problem

 

[phillyslim99]

Not Even Worth It

LOL so lets go kill them all right NOW!!

BTW how many of that 98% was because man shot them for their teeth? (I know there not really teeth so don't even try it)

Frankly, I've given up on this topic. You may ask "Why?". Well, when you have a group of people who have done zero research (anti-ivory crew, in this case) on a topic, but continue to criticize others excessively - they are either (a)trying to stir up emotions or (b) idiots.

Elephants aren't people and they are part of the "cycle of life". The vast likelihood is that the ivory ferrules, joints, etc being used are legal and harvested pre-1980. Protesting ivory ferrules is a waste of time considering the ivory is already there. Believe me, the "ferrule market" does not drive the ivory industry, so grow up!

 

[luv1pocket]

Ivory Ferrule

I like the way ivory ferrules hit and want them on all my new cues if they are high end. I actually have had one crack. I got a used cue with a slight crack in the ferrule and it kept getting bigger. I also had another one crack but I think it was because of temperature change. So I don't leave my cue anywhere where it might be really cold. Also if it was cold for a long perion of time and then played with immediately it might put more pressure on it and crack.
I'm pretty sure all the ferrules I have are pre ban ivory maybe some from woolly mammoth ivory but you never really know.
I won't get an ivory ferrule unless the fiber pad is on it because it might put too much pressure on the ferrule just to be safe.

What are the reasons for an ivory ferrule? Are they worth the money?

Also, what are the pads under the tip for? Advantages?