Snapshot9 said:
Pool, life, work are all the same. There are good and bad. Most of us learn from our mistakes/wins/losses and good people give others respect that we as ourself expect of others.
Jam
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Pool, life, work are all the same. There are good and bad. Most of us learn from our mistakes/wins/losses and good people give others respect that we as ourself expect of others.
Snapshot9 said:
Agreed. I would, however, insert that in a competitive event, there is always supposed to be a level playing field. That means everyone should abide by the same rules.
Survival, at least in a tournament setting, should not be attributed to how well one can tweak the rules or cheat.
Snapshot9 said:
Interestingly, I am reminded of a match beween Corey Deuel and Danny Basavich fighting for second place at the Glass City Open a few years ago. Danny was running a 6-pack on poor Corey who was benched. There wasn't anything Corey could do about it either, but just sit there patiently and hope to get another shot. I remember Corey looking so stoic in the high wooden chair at the TV table, while Danny was dancing his way around the table to a shot clock. He looked out into the stands and made eye contact with Keith and could only smile gently, and though I know Corey was in a real pit of despair, he was a first-class gentleman throughout the match.
At this event, at least on the TV table, the ref racked all balls; a neutral racker, if you will. It seemed like nothing was going to stop Danny from winning that tournament, except one Texan by the name of Charlie Bryant who was waiting in the wings to put an end to Danny's forward march to the winner's circle, and that the Hillbilly did, winning the 2004 Glass City Open title.
Snapshot9 said:
Then would it be feasible to think that in order to excel in pool, you must be educated about how to cheat, or at least recognize it? Maybe that is why they say cops can, indeed, be the best criminals!
I have another theory about sharking, but that is a topic for a separate thread. There are many forms of sharking. One of them is this racking dilemma, demanding re-rack after re-rack, hoping to get inside of an opponent's head.Snapshot9 said:
I have witenssed several matches where Keith was playing a guy, and his opponent would begin by politely requesting a re-rack. After three or four attempts, Keith would politely request his opponent to rack for himself. If the opponent declines, then a referee is called in. The opponent then proceeds to decline the referee's racks. This may be considered as a sharking technique, one which is commonly used by rack-riggers, I might add.
Snapshot9 said:
Say it ain't so!
JAM
Turn it Around
I learned long ago, and I have used this in tourney play also. If your playing a person that is physically doing something to the rack (and you don't want to get 'into' it) I turn it around on em. Once they have finished with their creative work, I inspect the rack, notice the flaws, ask the racker if this is a good rack. When they say yes, I say ok, then with these gaps etc. its ok for me to do the same to you??? You get quite a reaction, sometimes a flustered one when you say, if you rack em that way I can too........right?
Now they are in a JAM.
I learned long ago, and I have used this in tourney play also. If your playing a person that is physically doing something to the rack (and you don't want to get 'into' it) I turn it around on em. Once they have finished with their creative work, I inspect the rack, notice the flaws, ask the racker if this is a good rack. When they say yes, I say ok, then with these gaps etc. its ok for me to do the same to you??? You get quite a reaction, sometimes a flustered one when you say, if you rack em that way I can too........right?
Now they are in a JAM.
Is passing the option of the break, permissible? Let the rigger break his own mess. That may put an end to the rigging.Island Drive said:
Tracy
JAM, I get what you are saying completely! I have had a huge passion for the game for a very long time, but after last night's events at a local shoot, I have to say that for me, the honeymoon is over. I'd have to say that the politics of it all is what has done me in.
About a month ago I attended a league meeting, and afterwards went over to the tavern for which I was going to be playing for....both 8 and 9 Ball. I stopped in to talk to the gal who was going to captain the team. I order up a beer, take a few sips during the course of conversation, head off to the bathroom, come back take a few more sips, and leave. About halfway home, I feel like I am just going to pass out cold behind the wheel. My husband found me 2 hours later passed out in the front seat of my car in the driveway. It was later determined that I had been slipped some GHB in my beer. Freaked me out pretty bad. As a result, I did not attend the weekly shoots I normally attend for a while. When I finally did, I was asked why I had not been attending and I relayed what had happened to me.
Next thing I know....I am being read the Riot Act by the gal who owns the tavern about me disrespecting her establishment and her clientele, oh, and I should seek medical attention!! I just stood there with my mouth agape. I then got my wits about me and told her that I was asked by a few people where I had been, and I told them what had happened, and I was in no way making a big deal out of what bar it happened in....and I would have thought that she would be more concerned that she might have a potential problem brewing.
Needless to say, I have opted out of playing for her tavern for either league...I just do not feel comfortable there anymore. So, now, the captain of the 9 Ball team calls and leaves a message for the president of the league that we are not going to have a team this year. Next thing I know, last week I am read the Riot Act, once again, about no one calling about us pulling the team. I look at him and I'm like, I was not the captain, it was not my responsibility to do this. You need to take this up with the captain.
Last night I find out that where I used to be invited to play in the area tournaments.....suddenly, there is a big tournament this coming weekend, and now I am on the 'outs', so to speak. When I asked about it, the guy running it, who is also the president of the 9 Ball league, acted as if I wasn't even there!! WTH?! At that point, although I was shooting well, I wasn't shooting as well as I can, and , I could have cared less, and just wanted the evening to end so I could go home.
All I ever wanted to do was just play. I have donated a whole lot of money at these weekly shoots just so I could do that....sometimes I came home in the money, sometimes not....I just wanted to play!!!
So, here I sit....utterly disillusioned by it all now. I used to have joy when I played...win or lose. The joy and the passion just aren't there for me right now. I hope I get it back.
Lisa
About a month ago I attended a league meeting, and afterwards went over to the tavern for which I was going to be playing for....both 8 and 9 Ball. I stopped in to talk to the gal who was going to captain the team. I order up a beer, take a few sips during the course of conversation, head off to the bathroom, come back take a few more sips, and leave. About halfway home, I feel like I am just going to pass out cold behind the wheel. My husband found me 2 hours later passed out in the front seat of my car in the driveway. It was later determined that I had been slipped some GHB in my beer. Freaked me out pretty bad. As a result, I did not attend the weekly shoots I normally attend for a while. When I finally did, I was asked why I had not been attending and I relayed what had happened to me.
Next thing I know....I am being read the Riot Act by the gal who owns the tavern about me disrespecting her establishment and her clientele, oh, and I should seek medical attention!! I just stood there with my mouth agape. I then got my wits about me and told her that I was asked by a few people where I had been, and I told them what had happened, and I was in no way making a big deal out of what bar it happened in....and I would have thought that she would be more concerned that she might have a potential problem brewing.
Needless to say, I have opted out of playing for her tavern for either league...I just do not feel comfortable there anymore. So, now, the captain of the 9 Ball team calls and leaves a message for the president of the league that we are not going to have a team this year. Next thing I know, last week I am read the Riot Act, once again, about no one calling about us pulling the team. I look at him and I'm like, I was not the captain, it was not my responsibility to do this. You need to take this up with the captain.
Last night I find out that where I used to be invited to play in the area tournaments.....suddenly, there is a big tournament this coming weekend, and now I am on the 'outs', so to speak. When I asked about it, the guy running it, who is also the president of the 9 Ball league, acted as if I wasn't even there!! WTH?! At that point, although I was shooting well, I wasn't shooting as well as I can, and , I could have cared less, and just wanted the evening to end so I could go home.
All I ever wanted to do was just play. I have donated a whole lot of money at these weekly shoots just so I could do that....sometimes I came home in the money, sometimes not....I just wanted to play!!!
So, here I sit....utterly disillusioned by it all now. I used to have joy when I played...win or lose. The joy and the passion just aren't there for me right now. I hope I get it back.
Lisa
That won't work ....
Because a rack is rigged for a particular break (cue ball position, english, and head ball hit, speed). The same rack can be broken differently, and the breaker can make 1-3 balls. This is an excellent reason why every player should have at least 6 breaks for every type game they play. (maybe 3 with the other 3 being same break only opposite side of table).
A good break is only a good break if the other elements involved in the break are good and a constant, otherwise it is less than a good break. Think about that ...
RSB-Refugee said:
Because a rack is rigged for a particular break (cue ball position, english, and head ball hit, speed). The same rack can be broken differently, and the breaker can make 1-3 balls. This is an excellent reason why every player should have at least 6 breaks for every type game they play. (maybe 3 with the other 3 being same break only opposite side of table).
A good break is only a good break if the other elements involved in the break are good and a constant, otherwise it is less than a good break. Think about that ...
Are you saying, use the six breaks at random, to keep the cheater wondering which you'll use next? Or are you advocating, reading racks like Joe Tucker suggests?Snapshot9 said:
Tracy
macguy said:
A great and very honest post, what are you thinking???
Don't you know this is all about JAM feeling bad for herself and looking to get some attention? Who in the world can stick up for a guy who does nothing but beg and steal money from friends as he complains and burns bridges from coast to coast. Get a Job?? LOL what a crazy idea that is.
Jim
Both ...
I am advocating both, first learn to read racks, THEN decide on which type of break you will use. If you break the same way ALL the time, it gives the opponent the information he needs to undermine your break. In other words, you become very predictable. For every rigged rack, most are only good to stop 1 type of break, not all breaks. Switching up your break keeps the opponent off guard and guessing, which is good.
For example, I am very competitive with another good player locally. He has come up in ranks where when we play it is a 50-50 deal on who will win. We both try to get a jump on the other guy in the match. If I start out breaking 9 ball from the rail with good results, he immediately changes the rack where the side break just goes completely dead, but when I see him do that, I go to a front break of mine that breaks the same rack with excellent results, and if he doesn't know which of my breaks I am using to break with, he doesn't know how to rig the rack, and has to go back pretty much a straight rack other than him trying to be up above the spot, which I also watch for.
And as far as rigging, I am not referring to loose balls in the rack, I always watch for that - always.
I know this is complicated, but what I do is ELIMINATE his possiblities for rigging a rack to where he has to rely on a FAIR rack .... lol
And this is all accomplished without ever saying a word usually.
RSB-Refugee said:
I am advocating both, first learn to read racks, THEN decide on which type of break you will use. If you break the same way ALL the time, it gives the opponent the information he needs to undermine your break. In other words, you become very predictable. For every rigged rack, most are only good to stop 1 type of break, not all breaks. Switching up your break keeps the opponent off guard and guessing, which is good.
For example, I am very competitive with another good player locally. He has come up in ranks where when we play it is a 50-50 deal on who will win. We both try to get a jump on the other guy in the match. If I start out breaking 9 ball from the rail with good results, he immediately changes the rack where the side break just goes completely dead, but when I see him do that, I go to a front break of mine that breaks the same rack with excellent results, and if he doesn't know which of my breaks I am using to break with, he doesn't know how to rig the rack, and has to go back pretty much a straight rack other than him trying to be up above the spot, which I also watch for.
And as far as rigging, I am not referring to loose balls in the rack, I always watch for that - always.
I know this is complicated, but what I do is ELIMINATE his possiblities for rigging a rack to where he has to rely on a FAIR rack .... lol
And this is all accomplished without ever saying a word usually.
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Without writing a how-to book for cheaters, could you elaborate some? Like, when you see rack x, you use break y, that sort of thing.Snapshot9 said:
Tracy
RSB-Refugee said:
Pat Fleming did it in an event years ago, he couldn't make a ball on the break, gave all his breaks to his opponent and won. If your opponent accepts, unless there is a rule, its ok. Eventually if pool becomes a full blown sport I would feel then rules will evolve.
ridewiththewind said:
If I got slipped something I would let the law handle it.
ridewiththewind said:
You'll find a league that you're comfortable with. There are quite a few to choose from. I haven't played league in a long while, but I have read so many good things in recent times about the league play.
There's a good player in my neck of the woods named Danny Green. I've known him since he was a young pup, when he was just finding his game. Well, through the years, the kid found out he had talent and had quite a few adventures. He is mentioned in that "Playing Off the Rail" book.
Years later, he wanted to initiate an event for locals to compete, and he founded the Planet Pool Tour, running it for several years. I always admired that about Danny, being able to make things happen. Just recently, Danny has taken over a weekly 9-ball tournament. From what I hear, the attendance has grown, and it's a nice little Tuesday happening now. [Tuesday at 8:00 p.m., Laurel, for any interested local players.
]If you can develop a relationship with a local pool room proprietor, maybe you can make your own thing happen, if time allows. I've run a few tournaments before, and it's kind of fun if the field is small, like no more than 32. Of course, 16 would be ideal, just keeping is small and simple.
If all you really want to do is just play pool and have fun, the leagues are the way to go. Maybe you can find another close by to your home. It's a shame that you had that awful experience. I wouldn't want to go back to that establishment, if it were me.
JAM
JimBo said:
Interesting observation. You and I have a past history on the Internet, Jimbo. Are you bringing your RSB style of posting over here to AzBillards and attempting to create yet another flame with me?
In the past few years that I have been posting on AzBilliards Discussion Forum, you have posted about me or sometimes directly at me in a derogatory manner, and each time, I elected to ignore it.
Come on back at me if you desire with a few more nasty quips. I choose not to ignore the mean-spirited posts that you have directed at me or about me on AzBilliards anymore, and I don't need to do a Dennis the Menace impersonation to get my point across in this instance.
And for the record, Pal, if I wanted to feel sorry for myself or get me a little attention, I sure as hell wouldn't come to AzBilliards to do it. That's for sure.
JAM
Hello,
I have to say that, IMHO, it's pretty understandable when people like JAM take breaks from posting here as some of the "friendly banter" can get nasty very quickly can't it.
Why is it so much easier to make enemies on a forum than it is in "real life" I wonder!! That's a rhetorical question by the way....
Thanks,
Chris.
I have to say that, IMHO, it's pretty understandable when people like JAM take breaks from posting here as some of the "friendly banter" can get nasty very quickly can't it.
Why is it so much easier to make enemies on a forum than it is in "real life" I wonder!! That's a rhetorical question by the way....
Thanks,
Chris.
chrstc said:Hello,
I have to say that, IMHO, it's pretty understandable when people like JAM take breaks from posting here as some of the "friendly banter" can get nasty very quickly can't it.
People *like* JAM???
Why is it so much easier to make enemies on a forum than it is in "real life" I wonder!! That's a rhetorical question by the way....
Because you always think you'll never meet the person face to face.
Thanks,
Chris.
What does "people like JAM" mean??
Jim
JimBo said:
Erm, what did you think "people like JAM" meant? I meant that there have been a few high profile posters who have taken breaks from posting or cut down the amount of posts they've made here of late. I was using JAM as an example of someone who is taking a break/cutting back on her posts.
Chris.
JimBo said:
You state that I am "always crying about how the pool world" is doing me wrong. Most of the time when I participated on AzBilliards Discussion Forum on a regular basis, I tried to contribute some upbeat threads, laced with pictures and trip reports. Is there a reason that you desire to make me out to look as if I am "always crying about how the pool world" is doing me wrong?
My opinion is, in fact, that you are coming onto a thread entitled "Jam" and attempting to flame me, no matter how subtle or how direct.
JimBo said:
I love being a big shot? A big shot at what on a pool forum, pray tell? I don't even shoot pool anymore. Please explain how it is that I "love being a big shot."
And BTW, who cares if you'll know that I'll always be here? What in the hell does that mean?
JAM