Jay Flowers Cases

The thing is that this style of tooling is known as Mexican and Western tooling. There are lots of places in Mexico that have lots of places making tooled leather goods.

The tooling style has been around as long as there have been tooled leather goods. Look at antique holsters and you will find the same kind of tooling.

Even if Jay had been completely having the cases made in Mexico then he still gets the credit for introducing this style to cue cases in a larger way. I am certain that there were others, leather workers, who made their own cue cases with tooling on them prior to Jay doing it. But Jay is the first one who came out with a diverse assortment and a bunch of different ways to do the cases in a custom production manner.

Anyone who came after him and chose the same "style" of tooling and similar patterns was doing so off of the inspiration that Jay's cases gave them. In my opinion.

And since he did emply 8 women in his garage then he was certainly doing some kind of production there unless all they were doing is packing boxes and counting money from all the orders.
 
And I think that Chris Tate's testimony here should stand good. Jay Flowers said HE made the cases himself at first and then hired people to make them as well as making stamping dies for some of the patterns.

That should settle it.
 
TATE said:
I spoke to Jay shortly before he passed away, to get a bio on him and discuss some issues.

He came up with the logo because he thought it sounded "Hollywood" good. For example, his real initials are JMF as in "Jasper Meeks Flowers" but he didn't think that was jazzy enough, so he used JEF as in "Jay E. Flowers" . He said he built the original cases then got swamped with orders, so he hired women, and only women for some reason, to work for him. He said that at his peak he had 8 women working for him in his garage and had a backlog of hundreds of cases. I honestly don't know why he quit making cases, but there could have been "unspoken reasons" that made it impossible...

For some of his case designs, they weren't hand tooled. The basket weave patterns were made from larger die stamps and pressed. He had the dies made up and according to what he said, devised a press for the purpose. I have a few of his cases that do have detailed basket weave patterns that look like they're pressed.

I don't know what NH stood for, but in his mind, I'm sure it was something he thought was cool.

Chris
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Hi Chris,

I too had many one on one conversations with Jay similar to yours. I asked him about the J.EF Cue Case name and he said he liked to call it the Jiffy Case. When asked about the handcrafted by NH, the subject quickly changed to somethin else. I never pushed the issue because at the time it really didn't matter. In fact, Jay and I eventually became good friends and talked often up until his death. He use to kid me about putting him out of business but it was all in jest. In Jays younger day, he was not a person to back away from an issue and it did get him in trouble at least one time. On the other hand, if Jay liked you he was very kind and a big teddy bear that always liked to kid around telling jokes and having a good time. I remember one time he called saying he had one of my cases with a broken handle strap or lid and he wanted to know if it was OK to send it back for repair. I said sure send it back but when I opened the box it was one of his cases. I called and told him he sent the wrong case and he laughted so hard he almost lost his breath. I did many repairs on his cases over the years and even though he always wanted to pay me I never charged him one penny simply because of our friendship. About 5 years before his death, he asked if I would build him a case with his name on the back. I wanted it to be something special and ended up making him the first Justis suede case. I miss him a lot.

So far NH is still a mistery.
 
Sounds like it will remain a mystery.... given that you and JB and Smorg don't have an answer.
 
JimS said:
Sounds like it will remain a mystery.... given that you and JB and Smorg don't have an answer.
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As I remember it, the NH was non pool or case related, but was something odd (even to me).
D.
 
Smorgass Bored said:
Ah, we ain't got no Mexican borders here in FLORIDA.

Doug
(many of the old players have moved or passed on, but if anyone has a phone number for T.R. McIntosh or Ray Martin or Jon Dovinski, they may get the scoop on Jay Flowers)
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I just talked to T.R he wanted me to post his number if anyone wants to talk to him.He`s getting ready for action again.His number is 813-986-8814.He looks forward to hearing from some of his old freinds and anyone interested in buying/selling some cues.
 
JimS said:
Sounds like it will remain a mystery.... given that you and JB and Smorg don't have an answer.
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I don't think it matters. I think it's kind of an insult to insinuate that Jay was 'just a distributor'. Any person who designs a product and brings it to life whether through their own hands or through someone else's is the creator of that product if they accept responsibility for it's performance in the hands of customers.

NH might be one of the women in Jay's shop. It might be something Jay made up so that he could use the common "handcrafted by" stamp. He might have outsourced the tooling and NH might be the person it was outsourced to.

The fact is that Jay advertised the cases when no one else was advertising any similar styles, he was the first to market with this style of case as far as we know. It doesn't really matter if he himself never touched a tool, he created the cases first in his imagination and then brought together all the elements to make them real.

Everyone after him followed the patterns he established.

So to denigrate Jay's accomplishments to me is really insulting.

Jim Knott marketed some cases for a while. They were made by a local leather worker. When the leather worker increased his prices Jim Knott cases ceased to exist. Jim Knott designed them, hired someone to build them, and ended them when his costs got too high.

Fellini cases were "made by" Bob Hemphill, Ann Gore, and Stephen Wright and who knows who else. Who knows today what percentage of actual "building" Bob did? Who cares? Or Mike Roberts and It's George cases.

Of course there is a level of satisfaction and control that comes from building something entirely yourself. And there is a level of prestige and honor in purchasing something from a one-person shop.

But there are plenty of fine fine products that come from custom production shops where some of the work is outsourced. The shop though takes full responsibility though for the finished product in terms of it's performance. They may share credit for the creation with others depending on the situation but in the end it's the architect who gets the credit for the building not the builder.
 
I have had two Flowers cases and even had Jay write me a letter identifying me as the owner of one when it was stolen to help me get it back. Both of mine had the NH stamp.

He was like a funny, bi-polar Col. Sanders.... with a gun. I am one of the kids (was back then) he took a liking too, and he was always great to me.

I got my first flowers at 18 or 19, cuz when I started playing all the champions I saw in FL on the FL mini tour had one, especially Dennis Hatch. (DH's case had a crude hatchet on the back).

My first case I got just after he transitioned to the side zippers, instead of the wrap around or center zips. It still had the really long strap (which most of us liked), and the riveted / NON-D-ring strp attachment, and had snaps on the lid instead of the twist latch. Like I said, I think it was built when he was transitioning between features in evolution of his design.

I always liked how the zippers we "up" when you carried it in your left hand, you know where MEN are supposed to carry things. I never understood how case makers put the pouches etc so they are on the inside when you carry the case with your left hand. MEN leave their right hand free to shake hands, open doors, fight evil, etc. but I digress.....

I sold that first one in Thomas Engert's (sp?) poolroom in Germany around Christmas 1991, along with my Tim SCruggs.

I returned home and bought a second one, almost identical to the first, brown, "vertical shelling" as Jay Called it, and my initials in script on the back at the top. (Vertical shelling was his "new" pattern when I first met him in the fall of 1988). The second one had the shorter strap, and the D-rings for the strap.

The only improvement I have seen to these cases is a D-ring arrangement for the lid, and larger pockets for jump butts.

He was actually supposed to put a different design on the first one, but forgot to, and I liked the initials so much I kept it. Those intials helped me identify it in 1997 when I found the guy who bought it from a thief.

He was also going to make me a larger "tapper" pocket for the then new George tip tool I had the hots for.

I still have it. It has "sagged" a little over the years, and I don't really use it, but I still have it, and no it's not for sale.
 
Happy to.

Let's see, last time I posted pics, if I went one at a time, they embedded.

This one is a pretty good shot (for a quickie cel phone pic) of the "Vertical Shelling" design.
 

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My initials. They were gold. Most of it has worn off.

BTW it's a funny conversation to walk up to the guy who has your case, and doesn't know it's yours. The short version goes something like this:

ME: "Hey, nice case."

Tough guy: "Yeah, thanks, wanna buy it? hehehe, I might give you a special deal if your initials are ELS"

Me: "Welp....I'm E... L... S..... so let's talk"

Tough Guy: "but, but, I bought this fair and square...."

Me: "Yup, cops are on the way, wanna make a deal or just surrendur stolen property?"
 

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Dirty Pool? Were you in the military in Germany? I was there in the 90's from 1989 until 1999. I was in the Air Force stationed in Schwaebisch Hall and got out in '91 and stayed in Germany. I played all over Germany throughout the 90's.

My friend Andi Sattler was a Flowers and Scruggs dealer. He visited Jay when I sent him to Florida with two of his friends to play on the Florida tour.

I will ask him what he knows about Jay's operation. Andi gave me my first Flowers.

My name was John Collins then - maybe we bumped into each other at some point.


P.S. I am one of those that makes the handle on the "wrong" side. But, it's so that the case can be worn on the left side keeping the right hand free. I am right handed but I always carry my case on the left shoulder.
 
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JB Cases said:
My name was John Collins then - maybe we bumped into each other at some point.


P.S. I am one of those that makes the handle on the "wrong" side. But, it's so that the case can be worn on the left side keeping the right hand free. I am right handed but I always carry my case on the left shoulder.
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Was never in the Military, long story, I always wanted to be, just turned too old.

I don't know if we ever met, I was pretty small potatos then, still am. Just an enthusiast who loves the game and sexy gear. Working on getting to "A" level now that I am back after a 15y lay off.

As to the right or wrong side, just me mouthing off. You're correct, to use the shoulder strap, you put the handle / pouches on the other side. Don't wanna make the shoulder strap drag the ground, so you gotta make a choice.

I find I use that "suitcase" handle on cases most of the time, and I prefer to carry left handed, so I can open doors, shake hands for a match, and of course shoot bad guys righty. Just a hold-over martial thing, like keeping your date on your left. Makes little real difference, I'm just old school like that.

Happy to send more pics (although I am a crappy photog) and other insights into the case if you're interested.

Headed to check out your site now.

I'm looking for a new "fancy" case. I see faetures I like in the Murnak and Thomas cases, but I haven't made up my mind yet.
 
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JB... dude, SWEET cases.

I like your handles especially. I always thought the leather strip used for the "frame" of the Flowers handles was way too thin.

I also like the turn clasp closure for the case, and some combination of that and a D-ring or hinge would be perfect. If I was going to use the case to store assembled cues, as in a tournamenet match, I never knew what to do with the lid when I snapped it off. And if you use leather as a "hinge" as in the older turn clasp Flowers, it fails after too short a time to even consider.

As far as cosmetic designs, I tend towards pretty conservative designs, both in cues and cases. I like what I see on your site (BTW the "ZACK" case seems to solve the "which strap" question, for left hand or shoulder carry... GOOD JOB!!!). Something like that with a slightly different pocket arrangement would suit me fine.

It might just be time to update and order something new to go with the Davis / Richards full spice I have coming soon.
 
Has abyone ever heard of or Known a pool player by the name of Horace Howard???

Sorry posted in the wrong spot...................
 
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Dirtypool,

Thomas still has a few Flower cases, i saw them at his home.
Maybe it is the one you sold back in 1991.
I will ask him, see him next week.

MH
HOB Weert
 
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