Jayson Shaw = 832 man

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was mistaken. It's actually 836.

He's trying again today.
No, it was 59 racks of 14 each and 6 balls out of the last rack.

That is 826+6 = 832

Here is a screen shot of right after he missed the 8 ball, showing 9 balls on the table.

1736188973953.png
 

Wayne Crimi

Member
Thanks. I saw 832 last night when I was watching, but someone posted that it was 836 this morning. I thought I missed something.
 

Wayne Crimi

Member
I have some random thoughts about his 14.1 game from last night and the last time he tried this.

I saw Sigel, Varner, Mizerak, Martin, Rempe, Hopkins, Nagy, Murphy and West at their absolute 14.1 peaks. I saw Mosconi while still playing very well in his 60s, Lassiter a bit after his peak and everyone since then. I never saw Cranfield or Eufemia and obviously never saw Greenleaf.

IMO shaw's ability to pocket balls, get position, push balls around with control and hit the break shot is ahead of all of them.

If I have any criticism (and it's probably idiotic for someone like me to criticize him) I think guys like peak Varner, Nagy, Appleton, Schmidt, Rempe and maybe a couple of others took the balls off the table a little better. Shaw goes into the balls a LOT more often in situations I think those other players would work around. IMO that opens the door to getting stuck, tying balls up, having a tough combo etc.. His shot making is so incredible, it rarely matters because he'll just make some really tough shot and get back in line. But I think if he took the balls off better, 1000 would easily be within his range because when he's rolling, he pretty much mever misses. I wish I saw Lassiter at his peak to know whether they were comparable shotmakers.
 

Pete H

Registered
Shaw goes into the balls a LOT more often in situations I think those other players would work around. IMO that opens the door to getting stuck, tying balls up, having a tough combo etc
...
But I think if he took the balls off better, 1000 would easily be within his range because when he's rolling, he pretty much mever misses.
He knows when and how to go into the rack better than anyone else.

I don't believe anyone on this planet would be able to run a 1000 balls (in a single session) by always trying to find the least risky clearing pattern. That way you'd use way too much energy on thinking and exhaust yourself.

Based on what I've seen, Sigel and Hohmann in their prime were the best at finding the patterns without a difficult shot. That's how you run 150-200 and out, but not a thousand.

Jayson thinks as little as possible (during a run, he does the thinking off-table) to stay in the zone and save energy.
 

Zerksies

Well-known member
Balls roll funny sometimes, I was watching last night and it seemed like he was struggling to get past a four pack.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I certainly agree that Jayson’s style of conserving energy is critical. I remember some of Johns attempts where he would do a lightning quick 200 and bear down after that. I always wondered if he would have been better served to maintain the same pace and style from start to finish.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I have some random thoughts about his 14.1 game from last night and the last time he tried this.

I saw Sigel, Varner, Mizerak, Martin, Rempe, Hopkins, Nagy, Murphy and West at their absolute 14.1 peaks. I saw Mosconi while still playing very well in his 60s, Lassiter a bit after his peak and everyone since then. I never saw Cranfield or Eufemia and obviously never saw Greenleaf.

IMO shaw's ability to pocket balls, get position, push balls around with control and hit the break shot is ahead of all of them.

If I have any criticism (and it's probably idiotic for someone like me to criticize him) I think guys like peak Varner, Nagy, Appleton, Schmidt, Rempe and maybe a couple of others took the balls off the table a little better. Shaw goes into the balls a LOT more often in situations I think those other players would work around. IMO that opens the door to getting stuck, tying balls up, having a tough combo etc.. His shot making is so incredible, it rarely matters because he'll just make some really tough shot and get back in line. But I think if he took the balls off better, 1000 would easily be within his range because when he's rolling, he pretty much mever misses. I wish I saw Lassiter at his peak to know whether they were comparable shotmakers.
I saw all of them, too, and also Eufemia, but I do not agree. Nobody of his own era or since even comes close to playing the table and the patterns as well as Mosconi. Mike Sigel has said the same.

Jayson's record run is certainly something to celebrate but it hardly establishes him as the best straight pooler of this era. Like Schmidt before him, he doesn't have the straight pool titles that validate excellence, and I'm not calling anyone the best without that. Both Jayson and John have played in many straight pool events, too. Mentioning either in the same breath as a Thorsten Hohmann, who mass produced World and European straight pool titles, is silly.

As you note, quite a few took the balls off the table better than Jayson, and you can add Crane to your list. In Nick Varner's opinion, Lassiter was the best pocketer of balls ever. Still, Lassiter fell short of the mark as a manager of the table in straight pool, despite being a pattern play maestro at 9ball. Certainly, Shaw is one of the top few pocketers of all time, and on loose equipment, he'll just about never miss, but on a tighter table, the fact that he doesn't take the balls of as well as some of the all-time greats would catch up to him.

I think it's only a matter of time until Jayson tops 1,000, and I'm not sure 1,500 is out of reach, but in what sport do we measure greatness by how one played on their finest day. Only one player in the last 130 years went 7-7 in a baseball game. His name is Rennie Stennett and awfully few have ever heard of him. He had the best day of any player since 1900, but he's not the best, because true greatness is about sustained excellence, and not about how one performed on one's very finest day.

I couldn't be happier for Jayson, and his feat is legendary, but let's not carried away by comparing him to those who have mass produced major straight pool titles against the best.

FYI, I believe that, right now, the best straight pool technician in the world is Lee Van Corteza, and if Jayson tried him on a pro spec table in a race to 500, my money would always be on Lee.
 
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Wayne Crimi

Member
I saw all of them, too, and also Eufemia, but I do not agree. Nobody of his own era or since even comes close to playing the table and the patterns as well as Mosconi. Mike Sigel has said the same.

I think most of us agree that winning championships is a different animal than just running balls. Just ask the people that saw prime Eufemia. There are safety battles. You have to deal with nerves. Certain styles may be better for high runs but not work quite as well in a series of matches to win a tournament because of more volatile results inning to inning and game to game.

I wasn't commenting at all about who would win in a tournament. I'm commenting on pure physical 14.1 pool skill (pocketing, cue ball control, breaking the balls and moving balls around with control). I think Shaw is the most overall physically skilled 14.1 player I have ever seen and I don't even think it's particularly close. He's doing these thing DESPITE what I believe is an obvious weakness in pattern play, which is a huge part of the game.

I didn't see enough of Mosconi to conment with conviction on his pattern play. I saw him play my cousin in an exhibition match while he was in his early 60s. He was still good enough to get out in 2 innings (and there's a pretty good chance he missed once on purpose so she could get back to the table). Still, as impressed as I was by his overall play, I didn't come away thinking his pattern play was as good as I've seen from others.

I'll have to defer to those that saw him at his peak.
 
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Wayne Crimi

Member
John Schmidt has repeatedly said that one of the things important to running a huge number of balls is not wasting much energy concentrating hard on every shot. He said Shaw's ability to shoot so accurately off a single practice stroke is an advantage that he didn't think other great players of today could easily match and they might wear down playing at their normal pace and style. Maybe we'll get to test that theory if a few more try to break it.

He also mentioned that the superior chalk of today means there are fewer skids. He said that when he was trying to break the record a few of his very long runs were ended by skids, but with the better chalk now, it raises the probability of continuing those really high runs.

From John

I averaged about five skids daily When I was trying to break the world record.

I've ran over 200 about 340 times and a good 50 of those runs end on skids.
I started using the modern taom chalk and ran 490 and 626 within 14 days.the chalk is huge.balls stay clean and slippery for much much longer.its huge deal gauranteed
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Earl in his prime would miss less straight in shots from 7'-8 away than anyone, but Shaw's all around game at it's best is Better.
Can't think of any player in my era that could long haul it when Shaw's in stroke.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have some random thoughts about his 14.1 game from last night and the last time he tried this.

I saw Sigel, Varner, Mizerak, Martin, Rempe, Hopkins, Nagy, Murphy and West at their absolute 14.1 peaks. I saw Mosconi while still playing very well in his 60s, Lassiter a bit after his peak and everyone since then. I never saw Cranfield or Eufemia and obviously never saw Greenleaf.

IMO shaw's ability to pocket balls, get position, push balls around with control and hit the break shot is ahead of all of them.

If I have any criticism (and it's probably idiotic for someone like me to criticize him) I think guys like peak Varner, Nagy, Appleton, Schmidt, Rempe and maybe a couple of others took the balls off the table a little better. Shaw goes into the balls a LOT more often in situations I think those other players would work around. IMO that opens the door to getting stuck, tying balls up, having a tough combo etc.. His shot making is so incredible, it rarely matters because he'll just make some really tough shot and get back in line. But I think if he took the balls off better, 1000 would easily be within his range because when he's rolling, he pretty much mever misses. I wish I saw Lassiter at his peak to know whether they were comparable shotmakers.
When we ‘mortals’ go into the pack often, we soon get stuck/frozen and have to kick, jacked up. It’s an incredible shot-maker that sinks THOSE every time!
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I wasn't commenting at all about who would win in a tournament. I'm commenting on pure physical 14.1 pool skill (pocketing, cue ball control, breaking the balls and moving balls around with control). I think Shaw is the most overall physically skilled 14.1 player I have ever seen and I don't even think it's particularly close. He's doing these thing DESPITE what I believe is an obvious weakness in pattern play, which is a huge part of the game.
Well said. Oddly enough, this would also describe Lassiter, who was probably never one of the ten best pattern players at straight pool, but never missed. worked the balls and was a great problem solver.

Neither Shaw nor Lassiter focused on straight pool (Lassiter's best game was nine ball, and he was never the equal of Mosconi, Crane, or Caras at straight pool), but your comments make us wonder what either may have accomplished had it been their primary focus. Lassiter shot straighter than Mosconi and, according to Nick Varner, straighter than anyone that he has ever seen, but on pro spec equipment, it takes more than straight shooting to succeed.

No matter how you slice it, though, Shaw's 832 is a great achievement deserving of our highest regard.
 

Mensabum

Well-known member
John Schmidt has repeatedly said that one of the things important to running a huge number of balls is not wasting much energy concentrating hard on every shot. He said Shaw's ability to shoot so accurately off a single practice stroke is an advantage that he didn't think other great players of today could easily match and they might wear down playing at their normal pace and style. Maybe we'll get to test that theory if a few more try to break it.

He also mentioned that the superior chalk of today means there are fewer skids. He said that when he was trying to break the record a few of his very long runs were ended by skids, but with the better chalk now, it raises the probability of continuing those really high runs.

From John
Not taking anything away from this man's achievement, that being said, it's much easier for a shotmaker to stay in dead stroke while in familiar surroundings, with nothing on the line but prestige of accomplishment, without the pressure and white noise that comes with playing under the lights.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got to play Jim Rempe in a straight pool tournament back early to mid 80's. I believe the final score was 125 to 20-something. I think his biggest run was 50 or 60, but he NEVER took any chances and there was NEVER a possibility of him missing. He maneuvered around the rack shooting one 10 inch stop shot after another. He never even left the cue ball on a rail. It was really a display to behold.

When I watch Shaw, or Filler, it seems like they're regularly shooting something that most of us would be nervous about. Now maybe they are conserving mental energy by not making racks and shots as easy as they could, but they definitely play different than the old legendary players of the past.

Another thing about my game with Rempe, when he was almost out and 100 balls in front of me, he was still playing safeties like the score was 124-124 for a million dollars. That guy had no off switch.
 

Wayne Crimi

Member
Well said. Oddly enough, this would also describe Lassiter, who was probably never one of the ten best pattern players at straight pool, but never missed. worked the balls and was a great problem solver.

Neither Shaw nor Lassiter focused on straight pool (Lassiter's best game was nine ball, and he was never the equal of Mosconi, Crane, or Caras at straight pool), but your comments make us wonder what either may have accomplished had it been their primary focus. Lassiter shot straighter than Mosconi and, according to Nick Varner, straighter than anyone that he has ever seen, but on pro spec equipment, it takes more than straight shooting to succeed.

No matter how you slice it, though, Shaw's 832 is a great achievement deserving of our highest regard.


I saw Crane and Lassiter play 14.1 at the Roosevelt Hotel. I can't remember the exact years, but it was either late 70s or very early 80s. Both were past their peak, but at least I could say I saw them play. They played well even then, but not still up to same level at Sigel, Varner, Mizerak etc.. If Varner says that Lassiter was a best shot maker he ever saw, I really wish I would have seen him play at his peak. I can't recall the exact quote, but paraphrase, when asked how he can tell if he can beat someone after watching him play, Lassiter supposedly said, "I watch him play for an hour and if he misses more than 1 shot I can beat him".
 
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Mensabum

Well-known member
C
I saw Crane and Lassiter play 14.1 at the Roosevelt Hotel. I can't remember the exact years, but it was either late 70s or very early 80s. Both were past their peak, but at least I could say I saw them play. They played well even then, but not still up to same level at Sigel, Varner, Mizerak etc.. If Varner says that Lassiter was a best shot maker he ever saw, I really wish I would have seen him play at his peak. I can't recall the exact quote, but paraphrase, when asked how he can tell if he can beat someone after watching him play, Lassiter supposedly said, "I watch him play for an hour and if he misses more than 1 shot I can beat him".
Can you imagine having that much confidence in your playing skills?!?
I think John Wayne said it best: " Not brag. Fact."
Duke was always a fave of mine. Shame he didn't play pool. 😂
 
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