Jayson Shaw victim or defeated foe

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Why should Earl have been disqualified? For sitting too far away from the match when he wasn't shooting? What else did he do that was out of line in that match?
Hmmmm let me see....

Talking while the other player is at the table.
No sitting in his designated seat. Kind of like taking a timeout while the other player is playing (sharking move)
Unsportsmanlike conduct

That's enough. Look I love the man but he's Bat-Zhit-Crazy.
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
We were only keeping score because we were sitting there anyway and the players didn't seem to need the distraction or have the necessary skills at arithmetic.

I agree about the lack of a ref at the table.

The comment about the three score keepers was not a slight...the lack of ref was.
 

Hungarian

C'mon, man!
Silver Member
Truth is, this is a joke. This shitty little tourney does not warrant the TD to start screaming out of control at the spectators and the players to keep it down.

Charlie Williams is a tool bag.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The comment about the three score keepers was not a slight...the lack of ref was.
I didn't take it as one. I was just pointing out that if we hadn't happened to be sitting there, the players on the TV table would have had to keep score for themselves, which is how all the non-TV matches worked.

It takes a lot of work to get volunteers if you want to properly staff a low-budget tourney. The IPT, on the other hand, seemed to have plenty of refs. It's amazing what a few million dollars will do.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heidi Klum wasn't upset that Trump didn't call her 10 so I do not know what the big fuss is about :D


klum_trump_650.jpg
 

goombavskoopa

Registered
I watched this and Earl actually did call the two ball. When Jayson went and said he called the cue Earl went and broke his stick......not because Jayson got up and called the foul, because he knew Jayson was correct. There are a ton of videos on youtube of that shot from an alternate angle that has Earl calling the two ball. While the refs made the call based on what they had, Earl got away with cheating.
 

Hungarian

C'mon, man!
Silver Member
Not really. That's a stretch. Earl made a clear indication of his intent by pointing his cue. That should prevail between Gentlemen in a Gentlemen's sport. Neither players BTW acted like Gentlemen.

I watched this and Earl actually did call the two ball. When Jayson went and said he called the cue Earl went and broke his stick......not because Jayson got up and called the foul, because he knew Jayson was correct. There are a ton of videos on youtube of that shot from an alternate angle that has Earl calling the two ball. While the refs made the call based on what they had, Earl got away with cheating.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched this and Earl actually did call the two ball. When Jayson went and said he called the cue Earl went and broke his stick......not because Jayson got up and called the foul, because he knew Jayson was correct. There are a ton of videos on youtube of that shot from an alternate angle that has Earl calling the two ball. While the refs made the call based on what they had, Earl got away with cheating.

So why did Jayson say Earl called the cue? When he clearly called the two, not the cue? Oh, wait, you just mis-spoke there, nevermind, carry on. (hint, hint)

Here's another scenario for you, one I believe to be more likely- Earl is in the heat of the match, no more mistakes allowed at this point. He has to get out here. He knows the shot is the ten ball. Shooting the other ball into the side while jacked up is a losing proposition.

But, it's not a shot he really wants to shoot. He is second-guessing himself. Looking for something else. He sees the possible carom shot, and thinks in his head that Efren would probably call that. He says that soley out of respect for Efren, knowing that Earl himself would never call that carom.

Since the ten in the corner is the obvious choice to shoot, he isn't even going to bother calling it. At the last second, his mind says "call it just to be safe, want no shenanigans at this point". His mind sees the blue on the ten, and quickly blurts out "two ball" with no real conscious thought involved in it.

Then, when Jayson jumped up and said he called the wrong ball, Earl instantly knew that he had previously done so, took Jayson at his word, and was furious with himself for making such a stupid mistake again. Then, since Earl had called it basically using his subconscious, and not his conscious, he really had no memory of even calling the shot. So, he then stated that he didn't call anything. In his mind, he hadn't called anything because there was no conscious thought involved with calling the ball.

So, was Earl even lying about not calling the two? I don't think he was lying at all. He simply had no memory of consciously calling the ball. At this point, Earl is all confused on just what is happening. Why is Jayson getting all bent out shape, why did he even say that he called the wrong ball. What is going on? He was on the verge of winning another "world title" (term to be used very loosely), and now all this crap going on. And, in his mind, he was being careful to do everything right!

Actually, I think Earl showed great restraint this time. Usually, he is the one causing problems, and he knows it. This time, Jayson, seeing that he was about to be eliminated, grasped at any straw available, and called Earl on a mis-spoke. Willing to reach to any depth to get another chance to win. And, in so doing, he personified what is wrong with the game today. Those kind of actions are rampant in the league divisions. They have no place in the profession divisions of the sport. He was being a sore loser, period.
 

john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So why did Jayson say Earl called the cue? When he clearly called the two, not the cue? Oh, wait, you just mis-spoke there, nevermind, carry on. (hint, hint)

Here's another scenario for you, one I believe to be more likely- Earl is in the heat of the match, no more mistakes allowed at this point. He has to get out here. He knows the shot is the ten ball. Shooting the other ball into the side while jacked up is a losing proposition.

But, it's not a shot he really wants to shoot. He is second-guessing himself. Looking for something else. He sees the possible carom shot, and thinks in his head that Efren would probably call that. He says that soley out of respect for Efren, knowing that Earl himself would never call that carom.

Since the ten in the corner is the obvious choice to shoot, he isn't even going to bother calling it. At the last second, his mind says "call it just to be safe, want no shenanigans at this point". His mind sees the blue on the ten, and quickly blurts out "two ball" with no real conscious thought involved in it.

Then, when Jayson jumped up and said he called the wrong ball, Earl instantly knew that he had previously done so, took Jayson at his word, and was furious with himself for making such a stupid mistake again. Then, since Earl had called it basically using his subconscious, and not his conscious, he really had no memory of even calling the shot. So, he then stated that he didn't call anything. In his mind, he hadn't called anything because there was no conscious thought involved with calling the ball.

So, was Earl even lying about not calling the two? I don't think he was lying at all. He simply had no memory of consciously calling the ball. At this point, Earl is all confused on just what is happening. Why is Jayson getting all bent out shape, why did he even say that he called the wrong ball. What is going on? He was on the verge of winning another "world title" (term to be used very loosely), and now all this crap going on. And, in his mind, he was being careful to do everything right!

Actually, I think Earl showed great restraint this time. Usually, he is the one causing problems, and he knows it. This time, Jayson, seeing that he was about to be eliminated, grasped at any straw available, and called Earl on a mis-spoke. Willing to reach to any depth to get another chance to win. And, in so doing, he personified what is wrong with the game today. Those kind of actions are rampant in the league divisions. They have no place in the profession divisions of the sport. He was being a sore loser, period.

I don't think the 2 was ever even a consideration. The carom was still the 10, carom off the 11. Just from the video, it looks like he didn't have a full pocket to shoot at, so it wouldn't have been unreasonable to let the 10 run into the 11 a little bit instead of risking cheating the pocket, though I think he was just saying it as a joke and a little nod to Efren's creative and precise play. There's no way the 2 ball goes anywhere on that table other than by accident. It's completely buried and goes nowhere on purpose.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think the 2 was ever even a consideration. The carom was still the 10, carom off the 11. Just from the video, it looks like he didn't have a full pocket to shoot at, so it wouldn't have been unreasonable to let the 10 run into the 11 a little bit instead of risking cheating the pocket, though I think he was just saying it as a joke and a little nod to Efren's creative and precise play. There's no way the 2 ball goes anywhere on that table other than by accident. It's completely buried and goes nowhere on purpose.

I agree, I didn't mean to imply that the carom was on the two. The two wasn't going anywhere on a legit call.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Other videos have surfaced where you can hear Earl say clearly "2 Ball".

Everyone knew he was shooting the ten and the evidence was pretty good seeing as he pointed at it and made it rocket into the pocket. That overcomes a misspoken word.

Would Jayson really want to win an alleged WPC on a technicality like that? I guess so. Shame on him-no character-not a sportsmen!
 

rjb1168

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know the crappy rules say it was ok that earl indicated the pocket on the calling the 2 ball. Let's get real, He called the friggen 2 ball and should have lost his turn. Jayson got screwed and it's that simple, if you go by that rule they had you could point to the pocket and call anything you want. Bunch of BullS***.
 

Henry W

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
. I was playing in the BCA nationals on a team that ended up winning the event and as some point in the tournament I hooked my opponent and he kicked at the ball and missed by a foot resulting in ball in hand I picked up the cue ball and he called a foul on me for not verbally calling a foul on him. Same thing. He committed an obvious foul yet wanted to get ball in hand because of some obscure rule. I called him a pool lawyer
 

Rookie33

Registered
This issue would have not happened if Earl hadn't misspoke. He clearly pointed to the corner for the 10, but called the 2. So which is it....2 or 10. He basically had a mental error that should have cost him the match.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
SJM,
I'm asking you because I know you and trust you and your judgment.

In your experience:

In straight pool as you have come to learn it and play it and seen it played, WHEN A REFERREE IS PRESENT and a player calls out "2 Ball"(even though the 2 ball can't be made in any conceivable pocket) BUT carefully prepares to shoot another entirely obvious shot, say the 10 Ball, what does or can the referee normally say or do?

Thanks,

JoeyA
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SJM,
I'm asking you because I know you and trust you and your judgment.

In your experience:

In straight pool as you have come to learn it and play it and seen it played, WHEN A REFERREE IS PRESENT and a player calls out "2 Ball"(even though the 2 ball can't be made in any conceivable pocket) BUT carefully prepares to shoot another entirely obvious shot, say the 10 Ball, what does or can the referee normally say or do?

Thanks,

JoeyA

Well in this instance, the referee was napping and sitting down like the other players and never heard the call
On ABR interview, Darren said in past years ago, when he was in final, the referee would call every shot (even obvious shot). And that ref miscalled and called wrong shot a number of times so Darren requested the ref not to call anymore as it was distracting. Since that year, the ref has not been calling every shot so Darren blames himself :grin:
Based on that call all shots in the past, the called 2 ball by Earl should supercede the obvious 10 ball (NOT the obvious 10 ball superceding the called 2 ball as explained by the so called regulation put up by Dragon Promotions in their facebook post) so the ruling should have been in Jayson's favor (regardless of whether he was gentlemanly or not, Jayson had right to question the called 2 ball) . Same ruling as earlier similar situation of the wrongly called combo
:smile:
 
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