Jayson Shaw's 714 becomes 669?

[middleofnowhere]

"No funny business here"....

Baahahahhahhaaaa

I am sorry John, there is no way to spin this, you cheated. You just need to look at other racks and see where the balls are being racked to see this one was altered. Do it right or don't do it at all. Now I have to wonder what may have happened during the 626. I am very disappointed in them. Why were the commentators talking about it. They saw something wrong and tried to spin it.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Mine too. John's was pure in my opinion. He went to several rooms and just ran balls endlessly trying. He did it and immediately the sniping started by three "haters" who all had issues with John at various times.

They have been the driving force of the controversy and in fact have created the current controversy.

For me the issue of whether it is humanly possible to run hundreds and even thousands has been settled.

Yes it's possible. Conditions matter. Making the conditions extremely friendly for pocketing matters.

But honestly all the "fun" is gone for me because of the hypocrisy and dishonesty involved on the part of the haters.

I’m sorry you’re put-off by the situation.
I am not.
I’ll keep watching and waiting for amazing things to happen at the table.

Then we now have this video where John allegedly racked higher to get a break shot and that is no bueno and rightfully calls the other runs into question.

I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with that instance in Calgary.
And yes, you’re right, it does cast a bad light on Schmidty’s former achievements.
His former opponents had spoke out before about questionable actions years ago.

In essence for me Mosconi's is the most pure run because it was done in a time and place that was incidental and no long run attempt was planned.

Yes, which is why denying the public a chance to scrutinize John’s run after seeing him have no problem with the high-rack and then remove the spot altogether is an insult to Willie Mosconi and his accomplishments,

Mosconi was very deliberate about stopping at 150 or whatever the exhibition match length was, finishing the show and leaving. He treated it as a job and not a hangout.

He kept the run going as a favor to the room owner, a friend of his, and that's how we got to 526.

I applaud John for help his perseverance. I applaud Jayson for his phenomenal skill and being willing to keep at it.

I hope their diligent tries continue!

I wish that better humans had been involved in setting up the high run competition that Jayson played in. But regardless he did exceed the world record and proved it can be done.

I don’t know the owners of Street Lights Billiards, but from what I heard during the Neight Mindam podcast, Bobby Chamberlain used his own money to give world champions a chance to make a high-run, pay them for it, and give the pool world a great show at the same time.

All the other stuff just diminishes the joy I feel in watching world class players do something I can do with some skill to a degree that I could never achieve. That's why Mosconi's 526 was always so magical to me. It was a unique accomplishment that wasn't the result of brute force attempts, just a champion getting to really stretch out at a random time and create a beautiful experience for a small group of humans.

No doubt, Mosconi was incomparable.

It doesn't matter that others ran more balls, that other tables are tougher, that mosconi himself ran more balls at other times. It matters that organically, he stepped up and ran balls in a superhuman manner with no idea when he showed up that he would even be running more than the set exhibition number.

I would love to see straight pool contested only in big blocks from here on out. Races to 1500 with each day being until a competitor is first to reach a multiple of 300 with the caveat that runs continue until a miss or foul.

When that happens the rack is preserved exactly and play continues the next day.

Then we can really see what happens when there is no start over-try endlessly situation.

That might make straight pool great again with some epic battles among the elite players.

That might be good

 

[JB Cases]

I’m sorry you’re put-off by the situation.
I am not.
I’ll keep watching and waiting for amazing things to happen at the table.


I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with that instance in Calgary.
And yes, you’re right, it does cast a bad light on Schmidty’s former achievements.
His former opponents had spoke out before about questionable actions years ago.

Yes, which is why denying the public a chance to scrutinize John’s run after seeing him have no problem with the high-rack and then remove the spot altogether is an insult to Willie Mosconi and his accomplishments,

I hope their diligent tries continue!

I don’t know the owners of Street Lights Billiards, but from what I heard during the Neight Mindam podcast, Bobby Chamberlain used his own money to give world champions a chance to make a high-run, pay them for it, and give the pool world a great show at the same time.

No doubt, Mosconi was incomparable.



That might be good

What Bobby claims is often not what actually happens. I consider him to be a liar and a truly shitty human.

So as far as I am concerned anything be says is to be viewed very skeptically.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I’ve said this before, but I am confident that the people showing up to Johns viewings would still do so even if they had a pirated copy of his DVD. Believing otherwise is like saying that CD sales hurts concert ticket sales. Johns shows would be still be worth it for fans to meet him and ask questions.

 

[rharm]

It's part of the rules in every high run contest, including the one this was done in. I agree with you when you wrote, "pool goes nowhere because no one can seem to adhere to a common set of rules, and rather make crap up as they see fit."

Where can I find a copy of the rules this high run were following?

 

[Icon of Sin]

Azhousepro clarified in Billiard News that they decided to treat the 46th ball of the run as the first of a new run, thus the 669 record.

I'm not sure how that works, but that's the story.

They are just making shit up as they go lolol

 

[Chicagoplayer]

This is laughable here. First of all John has no break shot, as he himself illustrates for us on the video. Then he has a little conversation with the ref (who is it?) and VOILA, he now has an open break shot. You can see the ref has racked the balls about 1/2" high on the spot to accommodate John. If that doesn't make you wonder about the 626 what does?

Was the ref (was there even a ref or just a racker of the balls or did John rack them himself) in his record run a friend of Johns or a totally neutral individual?

Don’t know.

I don't even know if he played cue ball fouls only in his 626. If he did and actually touched or moved any balls during his run, that would bring the whole thing into question imo.

Yes, I had a HUGE problem with the constant side view of Schmidt’s table-
they had a second camera angle of the full table but hardly used it.
Why?
Does showing a front view reveal the width and ease of a pocket?

Like someone else said, let the world see it for themselves and make their own opinion on its veracity. The court of public opinion is still diliberating this one.

Agreed!

 

[AF pool guy]

Hahahaha, right? Completely unprompted. And when we can clearly see all previous and post racks spotted correctly.

Here's a gif of every rack shown from the side view. they all look spot on except for 19 and 23. 19 was low and 23 is high. Make of it what you will.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I think that a valid argument can be made that the de facto standard of starting with a break shot was established for the specific activity of high run contests. Contests by which a single player was trying to run as many balls as they could in one attempt have been around for more than a decade I think. Those were always arranged so that the balls were reracked on a miss and the shooter would be allowed to set up a break shot of their choice.

At no time did they ever allow a miss and let the player keep shooting and start from 0 at that point.

Jayson clearly ran 669 balls after the disputed foul. If the foul is inconclusive then it should go to the shooter in my opinion. He did run 714 without an actual miss. But if a foul was committed then the run should have stopped there and restarted as is the established protocol.

However that said I would also agree that there is no official ruleset that explicitly states that deliberate high run attempts have to start with a break shot.

Isn't that what Mr mosconi did? And wasn't his record run the one the beat for over seventy years? Hasn't that precedent to keep going in the middle of a rack been set for almost 70 years?

Answer to all 3..... is a resounding YES.

 

[8cree]

Here's a gif of every rack shown from the side view. they all look spot on except for 19 and 23. 19 was low and 23 is high. Make of it what you will.
View attachment 642979

The guy is a scam artist and a cheat. Plain to see. Sucks for him, he has literally lost all credibility here.

Only takes 1 'oh shit' to ruin 100 'attaboys'...
This is a huge 'OH SHIT'.

 

[Cornerman]

I think that a valid argument can be made that the de facto standard of starting with a break shot was established for the specific activity of high run contests. Contests by which a single player was trying to run as many balls as they could in one attempt have been around for more than a decade I think. Those were always arranged so that the balls were reracked on a miss and the shooter would be allowed to set up a break shot of their choice.

At no time did they ever allow a miss and let the player keep shooting and start from 0 at that point.

Jayson clearly ran 669 balls after the disputed foul. If the foul is inconclusive then it should go to the shooter in my opinion. He did run 714 without an actual miss. But if a foul was committed then the run should have stopped there and restarted as is the established protocol.

However that said I would also agree that there is no official ruleset that explicitly states that deliberate high run attempts have to start with a break shot.

I think based on this de facto standard, that should be the way going forward, if setting down rules of this sort of thing becomes a thing. But, since that wasn't a rule, then I have no problem with 669. If "starting at the break shot" is an asterisk point, then I guess the worst for Jayson is 658, starting from his next break shot (11 balls from 46-56th would be taken off). So, now he gets to claim three records: number of balls run without a miss, number of balls without an object-ball foul, and number of balls run from a break shot.

 

[Cornerman]

Isn't that what Mr mosconi did? And wasn't his record run the one the beat for over seventy years? Hasn't that precedent to keep going in the middle of a rack been set for almost 70 years?

Answer to all 3..... is a resounding YES.

Mosconi's would be the highest run starting from an actual match rather than a high-run contest. So, I suppose people are saying they're fine with counting the balls that started mid rack.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Where can I find a copy of the rules this high run were following?

Here's a gif of every rack shown from the side view. they all look spot on except for 19 and 23. 19 was low and 23 is high. Make of it what you will.
View attachment 642979

You are awesome!!

 

[Chicagoplayer]

"No funny business here"....

Baahahahhahhaaaa

This is the most brilliant call out for impropriety I have ever seen!

 

[Dan White]

Yeah, possible. Actually, I was playing a couple of days ago in a small tournament. I could only see an edge of the 1 ball, played safe off it. I 100% saw it do the ‘rock’. I stood there for about 5 seconds, then just picked up the cueball and gave ball in hand, knowing none of the 5 or so other people would have seen it move.

However, that kind of movement could also be caused by tense fingers on the bridge. Someone must have a real stick up their bum to die on this hill.

As opposed to this nonsense with the commentators saying it’s 100% legit At the 2h53m mark.

I documented some funny rack placements in high run attempts at DCC in a thread here a few years ago. Only one guy had unusual rack placement.

 

[skogstokig]

The guy is a scam artist and a cheat. Plain to see. Sucks for him, he has literally lost all credibility here.

Only takes 1 'oh shit' to ruin 100 'attaboys'...
This is a huge 'OH SHIT'.

it is a very weird thing to do, knowing that it's being live streamed. i mean, JS is not stupid, maybe it was done tongue in cheek?

 

[JB Cases]

"No funny business here"....

Baahahahhahhaaaa

Remember folks -- wrldpro's challenge had absolutely nothing to do with Schmidt's run.

Just want you guys to keep this in perspective.

Have at it.

nothing at all. ;-)

That's why he spent two years denigrating John's run and casting aspersions....

I understand the idea of an intimate show being a nice way connect.

I put on 3 shows for Florian “Venom” Kohler (One at the Metropolitan Club on the 66th floor of the Sears Tower) here in Chicago, at great expense, and secured him 7 minutes on ABCNews Chicago, so I have a clue on expectation, crowd size and cost.
And “Venom” sold merchandise and DVD’s at his events.

Realistically, how many events did Schmidty host that had a crowd size over 300 people?
Over 5?
Less than 5?
It costs substantial money to reserve a setting, provide drinks and/or meal and produce the event and not have a guarantee that you will recoup your output.

I am pretty sure that he had exactly ZERO shows at 300 people. Although that would be awesome. I would love it if he went super old school and showed his run in theaters on the big screen.

I think I read that the shows were capped at like 50 but I don't know if any reached that number.

John is very articulate and can be very witty.

But, after seeing that high-racking situation in Calgary, among other things, I am disappointed with him.

I agree. Not a good look and maybe he will explain it although the video is pretty hard to explain away.

Bobby Chamberlain in his podcast has said John has done some insulting things, but would give him a try if he acknowledged that his actions were out of line.

Bobby started in on John long ago. John isn't an angel and said some not nice things to and about Bobby. John doesn't need Bobby's mercy or permission to run balls. Bobby goes out of his way to denigrate John. Bobby called my wife a cheap asian whore so anytime I hear Bobby play victim about John's negative comments towards Bobby I have to roll my eyes.

Agreed.
For Efren.
For “Venom”
For Schmidty? Eh, hard sell.
Again, if John had a captive audience, it’s bad business not to have within his merchandise, a copy of the run.

not a hard sell at all. I would have a national tour sold out if I were the manager. Many promoters who much more experienced than me would have it even easier to book these shows.

I think it will be monitored, or Jayson would be upset.

Jayson will be upset for sure but if it's released on platforms that he or Bobby can't possibly have it taken down, such as distributed over peer-to-peer networks, then there won't be much he can do about it.

Jayson was at SBE and he & Ara were slammed the entire time.

As they should be for being at the center of an historic accomplishment. John, unfortunately, ran into the worst timing with Covid shutting down all the big events.

If somebody rips the DVD, Jayson would be on it.
I believe that Jayson had both DVD’s and USB’s and he had a 4 booth area with table set-up and he and Ara were slammed.

Great, I still have a hard time believing that they sold 1400-1900 of them but if so then I am pleasantly surprised. Jayson ran more balls on video in one session than any other human in history. I hope he makes money off of that as long as humanly possible.

Perhaps, but it’s inconsistent at best.
Be well,

Well that's a matter of promotion and scheduling in my opinion. Here in OKC we have dozens of average players that spend $150 for seats to watch two top players battle. We have average players that spend $500 on shafts and thousands on cues. So to me a show that is well packaged and well-promoted can tour the country a couple times and be reasonably sure to sell out each time. I think that Predator should have taken over the management of that and had shows in every venue where it would have been allowed during the pandemic. LIfe didn't stop and events still happened during Covid. My wife and daughter both had performances in the past two years.

No way to know until they try though...... so not my problem. If one comes to OKC I will buy a ticket.

 

[Dan White]

it is a very weird thing to do, knowing that it's being live streamed. i mean, JS is not stupid, maybe it was done tongue in cheek?

Employees also steal out of the cash register when there are 4 cameras trained on it. Motivation to get more drugs is powerful.

 

[JB Cases]

I’ve said this before, but I am confident that the people showing up to Johns viewings would still do so even if they had a pirated copy of his DVD. Believing otherwise is like saying that CD sales hurts concert ticket sales. Johns shows would be still be worth it for fans to meet him and ask questions.

That's possible but it would also diminish the magic a little. Concerts are a bit different because you're going to see a live performance of your favorites. I mean it might increase show sales as well to have the DVD out there. But at the end of the day it's John's content so if he doesn't monetize it then that's on him.

 

[8cree]

it is a very weird thing to do, knowing that it's being live streamed. i mean, JS is not stupid, maybe it was done tongue in cheek?

Na, there's no way.

No wonder he never released the 626. It all makes sense now.