Jayson Shaw's 714 becomes 669?

[wrldpro]

You are correct. I've been wanting to put together events like we are doing for about 20 years and me and Mark Griffin discussed it way before any 626 came about. Its quite simple John didn't kick start any interest to start anything on our end at all. What John has accomplished is people going back and finding many different videos where he has moved balls and touched balls which should have been called fouls and tilted racks and racked the balls high to gain an advantage which is clearly 100% out of line.
There is no doubt that he should allow his video to go through a new process under the same scrutiny as Jayson's and guidelines as Jayson's did and if he refuses than he is hiding the possibility of fouls that occurred and the visable playing conditions that happened for sure. So John go ahead and turn a copy of your video over to Ivan Lee the President of the BCA not your BCA friend who knows nothing about pool that approved your 626. Let a team of video experts like Jayson's run went through review the 626 and break it down frame by frame. This would be Apples to Apples which are the exact words you asked to happen not a peanut to a watermelon as what occurred.
Instead of asking for money through a go fund me page which usually is used to help people with problemed situations, medical expenses or funeral costs assistance you can make videos and make 10k-100k in just a couple months and then let the public decide for themselves how legit your 626 run is because the 3 people that reviewed it 2 of them don't even play or know about pool and the other guy that does is over 70 years old and said the video camera is a long distance away from the table.
Now all the followers can break down these key points anyway they want but not allowing everybody to see the 626 video to compare the high runs between John & Jayson to compare is foolish. It would clear up all the gossip and speculation that people are expressing and then the facts would come out. Simply put John pulled some moves as the whole World has gotten to see with their own eyes now and John can help to clear his name and could profit from all of this by releasing a 100% unedited copy of his video and make a lot of money doing so or can just go back to a go fund me page to pay for his next dinner.

 

[The_JV]

As opposed to this nonsense with the commentators saying it’s 100% legit At the 2h53m mark.

"No funny business here"....

Baahahahhahhaaaa

 

[ShootingArts]

All cloth takes a slight set under a ball that is sitting still. This helps make it possible to brush a ball without moving it. The fast cloth of the seventies and eighties had more set to it than today's cloth and it was much easier to see a rock back and forth sometimes or perhaps my eyes were better then. Either way, very possible to touch a ball without moving it. Depending on the rules as to if that is a foul or not. If it is called as a nonfoul it gives the other player a chance to favorably move the ball for a more favorable position for themselves. When it isn't a foul most people don't call a touch.

I remember the women calling hair fouls one year. Ladies with long hair could touch a ball without knowing and without movement. A season or two later they had quit calling hair fouls if the ball didn't move. A ball that rocks and goes back to the same place can be called or ignored, depending on rules and players.

If there was a foul on the 45th ball the run becomes a 44 ball run and not special at all. I don't get an arbitrary restart on the BCA's part.

Hu

 

[iusedtoberich]

Other thing is that in that screenshot, there was a large black head spot. The next day, that headspot was gone and I became aware that he was using a perma-rack with clear hole stickers.

Was he using the perma-rack when the headspot was on the table? I dunno, haven’t watched enough and listened to enough of his runs.

To be clear, I don’t care about using donuts, trained tables, racks, whatever gets they balls as tight they should be with as little hassle as possible. As long as the balls are racked where they should be, and cornerman said he actually directed the racker to shift the balls up.

I love watching John play, and love his dedication to 14.1, but that leaves a bad taste.

The permarack was there the whole event. Watch the video from any of the GC table days (just while racking any rack) and you will see their racking method was quite unique.

The last day the commentators stated they removed the spot because its edge had lifted.

 

[justadub]

this whole thing never fails to get a chuckle out of me...

 

[Shuddy]

The permarack was there the whole event. Watch the video from any of the GC table days (just while racking any rack) and you will see their racking method was quite unique.

The last day the commentators stated they removed the spot because its edge had lifted.

Right, so the day after the giant black spot was used as a reference point for shifting the rack up half a ball, it was removed. And the donuts being there also explains why the rack had to be moved so far up. I use donuts, and you either have to have the balls resting in the center or completely off the stickers. If they’re on the stickers edges etc they’ll roll off.

Not that logic is needed. We can see John telling the racker exactly where he wants the rack.

 

[Shuddy]

"No funny business here"....

Baahahahhahhaaaa

Hahahaha, right? Completely unprompted. And when we can clearly see all previous and post racks spotted correctly.

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah, possible. Actually, I was playing a couple of days ago in a small tournament. I could only see an edge of the 1 ball, played safe off it. I 100% saw it do the ‘rock’. I stood there for about 5 seconds, then just picked up the cueball and gave ball in hand, knowing none of the 5 or so other people would have seen it move.

However, that kind of movement could also be caused by tense fingers on the bridge. Someone must have a real stick up their bum to die on this hill.

As opposed to this nonsense with the commentators saying it’s 100% legit At the 2h53m mark.

This is laughable here. First of all John has no break shot, as he himself illustrates for us on the video. Then he has a little conversation with the ref (who is it?) and VOILA, he now has an open break shot. You can see the ref has racked the balls about 1/2" high on the spot to accommodate John. If that doesn't make you wonder about the 626 what does? Was the ref (was there even a ref or just a racker of the balls or did John rack them himself) in his record run a friend of Johns or a totally neutral individual? I don't even know if he played cue ball fouls only in his 626. If he did and actually touched or moved any balls during his run, that would bring the whole thing into question imo. Like someone else said, let the world see it for themselves and make their own opinion on its veracity. The court of public opinion is still diliberating this one.

 

[hang-the-9]

Actually a run starts in Straight Pool when you come to the table. So if your turn begins in the middle of a rack, those balls count along with any racks you run afterwards. Say you run the last eight balls in one rack and then run six more racks before missing on the fourth ball in the seventh rack, you have made a run of 95. Eight plus eighty four (six racks) plus three in the last rack equals 95.

So why not just keep going after a miss in all the tries instead of starting over?

I don't think touching a ball in the run that does not move it should invalidate the record, especially if the rule is cueball fouls only.

 

[JB Cases]

Oh my bad, didn't realize you weren't paying attention to the topic at hand while trying to pass off your ramblings as fact.

See the whole thing revolves around the fact that there aren't any established standards for high run competitions.

Keep digging...lol

Oh my bad, didn't realize you weren't paying attention to the topic at hand while trying to pass off your ramblings as fact.

See the whole thing revolves around the fact that there aren't any established standards for high run competitions.

Keep digging...lol

I think that a valid argument can be made that the de facto standard of starting with a break shot was established for the specific activity of high run contests. Contests by which a single player was trying to run as many balls as they could in one attempt have been around for more than a decade I think. Those were always arranged so that the balls were reracked on a miss and the shooter would be allowed to set up a break shot of their choice.

At no time did they ever allow a miss and let the player keep shooting and start from 0 at that point.

Jayson clearly ran 669 balls after the disputed foul. If the foul is inconclusive then it should go to the shooter in my opinion. He did run 714 without an actual miss. But if a foul was committed then the run should have stopped there and restarted as is the established protocol.

However that said I would also agree that there is no official ruleset that explicitly states that deliberate high run attempts have to start with a break shot.

 

[Shuddy]

I mean, I don’t know why this guy was there, but he looks believable.

 

[JB Cases]

Mark Griffin had spoke about putting something together with Bobby Chamberlain years BEFORE Schmidty broke Mosconi’s record.

If a promoter like Mark Griffin or Bobby Chamberlain are asking the same question I’m asking, I don’t consider that trolling.

I haven’t seen John’s run and do not understand why in 3 years John has never released such an amazing record breaking event for sale to the public, especially since John is a capitalist.

It is a BCA certified run.
There is no reason not to scream it from the roof tops and sell copies to the world.
It’s the breaking of a record that was 60+ years old!
It’s not like John couldn’t sell thousands of copies.
I would have bought it.

He was doing well with the shows. If he released the video for sale then for sure it would be pirated. He did private group viewing shows for $50 a person. I think that this was a great way to do it because it made the run that much more special having it narrated live and being able to hang with the world record holder.

I think it was and still is a brilliant way to profit off the incredible run. Having the second highest official run in video is still worth paying for to get an evening with the man who did it.

What John doesn't have unfortunately is a promoter like Bobby. I would have John booked as many days as he wanted to work

I paid 1500 to have Efren in my shop for four hours for a small group of my friends. I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of pool fans willing to pay 50-100 for a night of hanging out with a champion. It's experience marketing.

I predict that Jayson's run will be out there accessible for free at some point this year. Bobby claims they sold 1400 copies. I don't know if that's true but if it is then there is some interest. I just looked and the prices are 120 or 60 and some claim about only 714 copies going to made.

Then Bobby claims they sold 1400 or maybe 1900. So if we take the middle at 90 and go with the low number it means that they have brought in $146,000 selling copies. Does anyone actually beehive that? If so then great for them but for sure they should get it as long as they can until it shows up for "free".

Anyway, getting back to John I think he can make a decent amount doing the shows because they are definitely an experience that is far different than simply watching a high run at home.

 

[JB Cases]

You guys gotta run back that set you played already.

Never gonna happen. That era of my life is all the way over.

I do however enjoy seeing the propagandist do his job to near perfection. I have to say that Bobby is getting more than his money's worth by having this guy as a mouth piece.

 

[wrldpro]

go fund me

Right, so the day after the giant black spot was used as a reference point for shifting the rack up half a ball, it was removed. And the donuts being there also explains why the rack had to be moved so far up. I use donuts, and you either have to have the balls resting in the center or completely off the stickers. If they’re on the stickers edges etc they’ll roll off.

Not that logic is needed. We can see John telling the racker exactly where he wants the rack.

You are exactly correct and the best posting so far on this. It's totally out of line for John to do what he did and the racker also. As for the promoter and commentator trying to say no one cheats and then remove the spot the next day. Let me guess they didn't have a replacement spot available either.lol Makes everyone know that all of them had prior discussions about all the moves that are illegal to get away with and certainly did just that. Anything John can do he will as proven and probably did on the 626 run for sure. If anyone makes excuses for him them they are guilty also. No doubt the BCA should be notified by many people about this and demand the 626 be reviewed by video experts now and without any doubt Predator and all other sponsors should be shown this and let them know that if they support any of this and dont call out these guilty people out than their products should be boycotted and everyone has a right to let the world know they support cheating.

 

[JB Cases]

The pettiness and bullshit involved in all of these attempts, both Shaw and Schmidt, has completely killed my interest.

Mine too. John's was pure in my opinion. He went to several rooms and just ran balls endlessly trying. He did it and immediately the sniping started by three "haters" who all had issues with John at various times.

They have been the driving force of the controversy and in fact have created the current controversy.

For me the issue of whether it is humanly possible to run hundreds and even thousands has been settled.

Yes it's possible. Conditions matter. Making the conditions extremely friendly for pocketing matters.

But honestly all the "fun" is gone for me because of the hypocrisy and dishonesty involved on the part of the haters.

Then we now have this video where John allegedly racked higher to get a break shot and that is no bueno and rightfully calls the other runs into question.

In essence for me Mosconi's is the most pure run because it was done in a time and place that was incidental and no long run attempt was planned.

Mosconi was very deliberate about stopping at 150 or whatever the exhibition match length was, finishing the show and leaving. He treated it as a job and not a hangout.

He kept the run going as a favor to the room owner, a friend of his, and that's how we got to 526.

I applaud John for help his perseverance. I applaud Jayson for his phenomenal skill and being willing to keep at it.

I wish that better humans had been involved in setting up the high run competition that Jayson played in. But regardless he did exceed the world record and proved it can be done.

All the other stuff just diminishes the joy I feel in watching world class players do something I can do with some skill to a degree that I could never achieve. That's why Mosconi's 526 was always so magical to me. It was a unique accomplishment that wasn't the result of brute force attempts, just a champion getting to really stretch out at a random time and create a beautiful experience for a small group of humans.

It doesn't matter that others ran more balls, that other tables are tougher, that mosconi himself ran more balls at other times. It matters that organically, he stepped up and ran balls in a superhuman manner with no idea when he showed up that he would even be running more than the set exhibition number.

I would love to see straight pool contested only in big blocks from here on out. Races to 1500 with each day being until a competitor is first to reach a multiple of 300 with the caveat that runs continue until a miss or foul.

When that happens the rack is preserved exactly and play continues the next day.

Then we can really see what happens when there is no start over-try endlessly situation.

That might make straight pool great again with some epic battles among the elite players.

 

[Shuddy]

You are exactly correct and the best posting so far on this. It's totally out of line for John to do what he did and the racker also. As for the promoter and commentator trying to say no one cheats and then remove the spot the next day. Let me guess they didn't have a replacement spot available either.lol Makes everyone know that all of them had prior discussions about all the moves that are illegal to get away with and certainly did just that. Anything John can do he will as proven and probably did on the 626 run for sure. If anyone makes excuses for him them they are guilty also. No doubt the BCA should be notified by many people about this and demand the 626 be reviewed by video experts now and without any doubt Predator and all other sponsors should be shown this and let them know that if they support any of this and dont call out these guilty people out than their products should be boycotted and everyone has a right to let the world know they support cheating.

I mean, I don’t know why this guy was there, but he looks believable.

I think this one also sums it up pretty nicely

 

[JB Cases]

Let’s get real - who is going to front the $ to have a neutral qualified paid referee for a marathon high run multi day session? Certainly not the participants.

Well, the guy who put all this on is a self proclaimed millionaire. I am fairly sure that if he had put out a call for volunteers who are bca certified refs to officiate then he would have had some. He could have budgeted for their expenses.

He claimed that they have sold 1400 or 1900 copies of the run so far at $60 or $120 each which means 84,000 at the low end and 228,000 at the high end. Certainly enough there to have paid for referees. According to the promoter they had already thought about selling copies should a new record be established and so they should have thought about referees. I guess they figured that video would be enough and that was probably a logical thought. But to be extra sure they probably should have had a referee.

At this point though, for me, it's not even really interesting unless players are competing head to head.

I would like see straight pool and one pocket played in big blocks where players can run as many as they can and see what's humanly possible when someone is firing back at you.

Beating the ghost shows amazing skills. Playing another world class player who is ready to put a couple hundred on you if given the opportunity shows how much heart you have.

 

[skogstokig]

I mean, I don’t know why this guy was there, but he looks believable.

risitas always gets me. lol

 

[BasementDweller]

Remember folks -- wrldpro's challenge had absolutely nothing to do with Schmidt's run.

Just want you guys to keep this in perspective.

Have at it.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

He was doing well with the shows. If he released the video for sale then for sure it would be pirated. He did private group viewing shows for $50 a person. I think that this was a great way to do it because it made the run that much more special having it narrated live and being able to hang with the world record holder.

I understand the idea of an intimate show being a nice way connect.

I put on 3 shows for Florian “Venom” Kohler (One at the Metropolitan Club on the 66th floor of the Sears Tower) here in Chicago, at great expense, and secured him 7 minutes on ABCNews Chicago, so I have a clue on expectation, crowd size and cost.
And “Venom” sold merchandise and DVD’s at his events.

Realistically, how many events did Schmidty host that had a crowd size over 300 people?
Over 5?
Less than 5?
It costs substantial money to reserve a setting, provide drinks and/or meal and produce the event and not have a guarantee that you will recoup your output.

I think it was and still is a brilliant way to profit off the incredible run. Having the second highest official run in video is still worth paying for to get an evening with the man who did it.

What John doesn't have unfortunately is a promoter like Bobby. I would have John booked as many days as he wanted to work

John is very articulate and can be very witty.

But, after seeing that high-racking situation in Calgary, among other things, I am disappointed with him.
Bobby Chamberlain in his podcast has said John has done some insulting things, but would give him a try if he acknowledged that his actions were out of line.

I paid 1500 to have Efren in my shop for four hours for a small group of my friends. I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of pool fans willing to pay 50-100 for a night of hanging out with a champion. It's experience marketing.

Agreed.
For Efren.
For “Venom”
For Schmidty? Eh, hard sell.
Again, if John had a captive audience, it’s bad business not to have within his merchandise, a copy of the run.

I predict that Jayson's run will be out there accessible for free at some point this year.

I think it will be monitored, or Jayson would be upset.

Bobby claims they sold 1400 copies. I don't know if that's true but if it is then there is some interest. I just looked and the prices are 120 or 60 and some claim about only 714 copies going to made.

Jayson was at SBE and he & Ara were slammed the entire time.

Then Bobby claims they sold 1400 or maybe 1900. So if we take the middle at 90 and go with the low number it means that they have brought in $146,000 selling copies. Does anyone actually beehive that? If so then great for them but for sure they should get it as long as they can until it shows up for "free".

If somebody rips the DVD, Jayson would be on it.
I believe that Jayson had both DVD’s and USB’s and he had a 4 booth area with table set-up and he and Ara were slammed.

Anyway, getting back to John I think he can make a decent amount doing the shows because they are definitely an experience that is far different than simply watching a high run at home.

Perhaps, but it’s inconsistent at best.
Be well,