JB stoops to new lows
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Is that really what he said? Based on what John's admission this is taken way out of context. Not defending John but this is stretching a little too far.
If you don't care so much then why bother with the pointless quotes? Sounds pretty hypocritical from an unbiased position. So maybe John says some things he shouldn't, at least he has the stones to defend himself.
As for saving a "threat", which doesn't seem like a threat...this is an internet forum. If I saved every threat from every person on a forum I'v received I'd fill up a terabyte hard drive. Short of someone poking me in the head with a knife or holding a gun to my back I couldn't care less what anyone says or threatens to do to me. Heck, I'm not some ancient master of wisdom here, and I'm young-ish to boot, and I know enough to not take internet stupidity personal and actually pursue it outside of the site. That's lame..
So he made aliases? I don't see the problem. That's why websites have moderators. Almost every person somewhere on the internet has made some sort of alias at some point. You sound like you're grasping at straws honestly. You would look like a much better person if you just stopped. Its beating a dead horse...for nothing. No gain.
Done posting about it as its not my fight and I'd rather not cause another..
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Yes, Jack buys the fully made interior from a Chinese case maker. Jack said on this forum that he pays $17 for the interior. He also buys the bags his cases are delivered in from China.
No one wants to buy an unlined leather bag as a high end cue case. So in my opinion the interior, the actual CASE part, should be counted as at least 50% of the case.
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yep its true.Justis does buy bags that he ships his cases in are made in China.Those little black cloth bags are a finished product and not case parts so being a finished product that is not a case part they have a sewn in label that says made in China.
The interiors are parts made in China under the direction of Mr.Justis and not a complete case made in China so his cases do not have nor do they need to have a made in China label sewn in to them.
Jb cases and all his parts are all made in China and its not denied by Barton yet he does not abide by international laws of country of origin and put a made in China label attatched to any cases made in Jb Cases shop.
This is the point where I just do not understand you. So the China parts are okay as long as it is not the complete case being made there? The only part that matters with this logic is the exterior that never even touches the cues. If the complete case is made there then the case is somehow not as worthy for some reason? I really have no horse in this race. John rubs me the wrong way in his posts just as much as you rub me the wrong way in yours. If I was going to get a case from either maker it would probably be a Justis with a JB interior.
I rub a lot of people the wrong way
An abrasive person is that way. But like sandpaper I have my uses when it comes to stripping the undesirable surface gunk away to get to the beautiful truth below.The Justis Dealer is wrong however when he says that labels have to be sewn into the cases. Made-in origin labels do not have to be sewn into or permanently affixed to any cue cases. We put a label into our interiors identifying them as JB Case interiors and we make no secret of course that our cases are fully made in China in our shop.
Under United States laws however the Justis Dealer IS correct that if 50% of the product is made in the USA then there is no requirement to label the product as partially made in China. However for those who prefer Made in USA goods they would probably like to know that the actual case part of the case, as you noted the part that touches the cues, was wholly made in China. But this fact is not disclosed willingly by Mr. Justis or his dealer for obvious reasons.
I rub a lot of people the wrong way
The Justis Dealer is wrong however when he says that labels have to be sewn into the cases. Made-in origin labels do not have to be sewn into or permanently affixed to any cue cases. We put a label into our interiors identifying them as JB Case interiors and we make no secret of course that our cases are fully made in China in our shop.
Under United States laws however the Justis Dealer IS correct that if 50% of the product is made in the USA then there is no requirement to label the product as partially made in China. However for those who prefer Made in USA goods they would probably like to know that the actual case part of the case, as you noted the part that touches the cues, was wholly made in China. But this fact is not disclosed willingly by Mr. Justis or his dealer for obvious reasons.
Yeah this is where wrldpro completely loses me. I don't care if my case
Is made at the North Pole by elves or on the moon by little green men as long as it protects my cues. I think your cases do a great job of protecting cues. Justis does do some fine leather work. Some really amazing stuff but a case is more than that.
As for you rubbing me the wrong way it doesn't really matter in the long run how I feel about you to anyone else. No one should base their opinion of you on something someone else has to say because their opinion is one way or another. I just wish this while argument would just be a matter between your product and jacks product rather than a history lesson from some people about he said, she said.
Jack justice is his god... Jack can say anything or do anything and wrldpro will defend him to the end. Anyone but him can see who the pathetic one is in this post. He's one of these guys that screams buy american!! While driving a ford made in mexico lol If you don't like his cases great be happy with your justice ..move on. Why waste so much anger on it?
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Well, I am trying to keep it on point and just make it about our respective products. Over the course of the video series I will dissect the Justis piece by piece and attempt to show how each and every part was done, then I will duplicate it but with - hopefully - better leather working methods.
I hope to show everyone the difference between looking good and being good. It's often the parts that you don't see which make all the difference.
Jacks case has a Chinese interior. Why? Because he is not setup to sew the inside, nor is there anyone in the US that does this kind of thing, readily available.
Contrary to Johns opinion, Jacks cases are recognized for the craftsmanship that is put forth in the leather working and into the asthetic design, not his interiors. This means that Jacks case, his leatherwork is 90% his and the interior 10% as far as recognition and importance are concerned.
His interiors, whether they are tubed, or even his first attempt at the Chinese interior, were and are plenty adequate for the intended use of the case. But even Jack upgrades his interiors, as he is doing now. He just doesn't have to post everytime he "finds" a new rivet.
As shown in the video, just FTR his interior, or one that is evidently from the same company he was getting his, is the second one in the video, "protection matters". The irony here is that although the cues rattled around in that exaggerated demonstration, they never touched, and were always separated by a fabric barrier. The only case that cause wood to wood contact was the Ultrapad, Johns interior.
As John has pointed out, he is free to copy Jacks work. As this is the Chinese custom anyways, so that is to be expected. You must also consider the many other cases that John makes money from, doing "tributes" or copies. So this is not a stretch for John.
What should also be pointed out is the permanantly dyed ivory buttcap that Watchhez has suffered from a JB case, (not the only one) as well as his piss poor customer service that still exists to this day, and hasn't changed even from his Instroke days. But instead of correcting that, he would rather spend his time on his Justis obsession.
So if you want a case that can possibly damage your cues, by impact (on video), or dye bleeding, by all means get a JB. There are plenty of cue repair technicians that could use the work.
So to all the JB fanboys calling out the pro-justis camp for being pro Justis, from our side, you guys might as well be standing in the corner of Hitler, the only difference is you're the ones being gassed.
JV
Contrary to Johns opinion, Jacks cases are recognized for the craftsmanship that is put forth in the leather working and into the asthetic design, not his interiors. This means that Jacks case, his leatherwork is 90% his and the interior 10% as far as recognition and importance are concerned.
His interiors, whether they are tubed, or even his first attempt at the Chinese interior, were and are plenty adequate for the intended use of the case. But even Jack upgrades his interiors, as he is doing now. He just doesn't have to post everytime he "finds" a new rivet.
As shown in the video, just FTR his interior, or one that is evidently from the same company he was getting his, is the second one in the video, "protection matters". The irony here is that although the cues rattled around in that exaggerated demonstration, they never touched, and were always separated by a fabric barrier. The only case that cause wood to wood contact was the Ultrapad, Johns interior.
As John has pointed out, he is free to copy Jacks work. As this is the Chinese custom anyways, so that is to be expected. You must also consider the many other cases that John makes money from, doing "tributes" or copies. So this is not a stretch for John.
What should also be pointed out is the permanantly dyed ivory buttcap that Watchhez has suffered from a JB case, (not the only one) as well as his piss poor customer service that still exists to this day, and hasn't changed even from his Instroke days. But instead of correcting that, he would rather spend his time on his Justis obsession.
So if you want a case that can possibly damage your cues, by impact (on video), or dye bleeding, by all means get a JB. There are plenty of cue repair technicians that could use the work.
So to all the JB fanboys calling out the pro-justis camp for being pro Justis, from our side, you guys might as well be standing in the corner of Hitler, the only difference is you're the ones being gassed.
JV
Please post pics of your three closted Justis cases and the issues they have.
TYIA
JV
TYIA
JV
BS. You must leave the cases in your trunk.
In the entire USA no one can make these interiors?
Hmmm,
Ron Thomas has been making them for 20 years. He uses extruded tubing made in the USA. He sews the interiors in the USA. It's George makes the wholly in the USA. The material is available, there are plenty of seamstresses who would like a job.
No other casemaker was mentioned by name in our video. The first two interiors represent interiors that are found in cases across the board. The point was and is for consumers to check the interiors and if not satisfied with the level of protection to then find a case maker who offers the level they prefer.
This is the first time Watchez has EVER mentioned any damage to his cue from a case I designed. We did not make the case he is talking about however so from that standpoint I have no control over the build of it. That said while I have never seen a situation where any color from the fabric bleeds into the cue I will say that I guess anything is possible. Especially if the bottom is submerged in water or some other liquid. The fabic used is typically colorfast so it would be highly unusal for it to bleed.
I am sure that he can send the cue and case to Sterling and they would try to duplicate the issue and if they found the case to be at fault they would set things right. The owner is a mechanical engineer who could certainly duplicate conditions. But to reiterate Watchez NEVER mentioned it until this thread.
Hitler? You are really comparing me to Hitler and the murder of six million Jewish people?
The outside of the case equals more than 50% you are over estimated the value of the inside both in dollar value and time spent to make along with its value to a potential customer ,
There are many players including pro's that carry soft cases butterfly's mostly I have yet to hear of one that had their cues damaged because of it
The class of potential buyer of one of your cheaper Chinese cases is not the same class of potential justice case buyers so no harm no foul in your end there
Do you really believe anyone thinks a case is hard to build it not a rocket ship it's a pool case for gods sake get a grip
Sorry but I can't agree on your less than professional marketing practices and I can assure you if you worked for any high end corporation you would be out of a job no question about It
If you think that the slander and negativity helps your cause more than it hurts it ,you really have your head buried in fried rice
If I were you I would be taking the high road not arguing with the forum members cutting down others products and displaying a little class that you sorely lack
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We can play this game all day..... the bottom line is you started this, and you admitted you did, to dig at Justis yet again. You admit is personal, but don't believe it to be childish
At some point, just make cases, and quit with the non sense. I don't own either of your cases, and most likely never will. But after reading the "case war" posts for so long and never commenting... I just had enough....
Oh, and you don't think you are being childish... how many times have you been banned, for ya know, being childish ??
So, that is what this is really about..... you build cases in China using cheap labor, and Justis buys a "part" in China and puts in his complete, custom hand made case that was finished by a guy named... Justis.....
And you hate the buy American talk so much, this is what you were really up to..... Again, a guy who builds the case himself, with a "part" from China or the guy who pays Chinese to build the cases with all parts from China, and spends most of his waking days on a billiard forum
I don't see the problem..... China sells lots of stuff here every year..... heck, folks by Lucasi and other Chinese brands..... what is it exactly that you are afraid of.... Lucasi does not get their nose out of joint when someone on AZ says to buy a quality cue from an American cue makers....... get over it already... I think you protest too much ??
Well, none of those folks carrying soft cases are putting their cues into loose bags that allow the cues to rattle. I can address this point in tomorrow's lesson.
As to the class of buyer my customers come from all walks of life. Perhaps you were not around when I introduced the J.Flowers Tribute line but I sold 17 of them in the first 24 hours. In business one thing is always true, good quality at low prices always has buyers. I don't quiz my customers to find out what class they belong to I just accept their money and make them a case.
I hope you are not accusing me of slander because I have not uttered even one false statement about any in this thread. As for negativity, well when the market gets a new product at a great price it is a positive thing. I am foolish if I do not leverage our ability to make a Justis-level case for much less than Jack does and allow those who prefer that style to get them for less.
As for my marketing practices you had better check the fact that corporations copy each other relentlessly. This results in better products for less money.
As well I don't work for anyone else and therefore am free to run my business as I see fit.
So, that is what this is really about..... you build cases in China using cheap labor, and Justis buys a "part" in China and puts in his complete, custom hand made case that was finished by a guy named... Justis.....
And you hate the buy American talk so much, this is what you were really up to..... Again, a guy who builds the case himself, with a "part" from China or the guy who pays Chinese to build the cases with all parts from China, and spends most of his waking days on a billiard forum
I don't see the problem..... China sells lots of stuff here every year..... heck, folks by Lucasi and other Chinese brands..... what is it exactly that you are afraid of.... Lucasi does not get their nose out of joint when someone on AZ says to buy a quality cue from an American cue makers....... get over it already... I think you protest too much ??
I have no problem with where things are made. I just find it hypocritical to bleat Buy American and tout Justis cases as an example of American product when he goes out of his way to purchase the most critical component of his case in China.
To put this another way, with only a teeny modification the interior by itself is a functioning cue case. But a justis skin with no interior is not a functioning cue case. so yoi can downplay it as just a part but without that part there is no case.
I am not afraid of anything. I heartily recommend if someone wants to buy American the they should buy a case from a maker that truly makes the WHOLE case in the USA. And there are plenty of them, Whitten, On Cue, Rusty Melton, Dennis Swift, etc....
I just don't like hypocritical statements and false patriotism. I support freedom, freedom to live and work where you want to and freedom to buy from whomever you want to without persecution over it.
I don't have any problem wirh jack sourcing half his case in China nor any problem worh him taking money from a Taiwanese /Chinese manufactures who is a known design thief. if jack felt like that was the right move then fine. but do not wrap yourself in the flag after that and expect a free pass while you and your rabid supporters go off on me for working in China.
We can play this game all day..... the bottom line is you started this, and you admitted you did, to dig at Justis yet again. You admit is personal, but don't believe it to be childish
At some point, just make cases, and quit with the non sense. I don't own either of your cases, and most likely never will. But after reading the "case war" posts for so long and never commenting... I just had enough....
Oh, and you don't think you are being childish... how many times have you been banned, for ya know, being childish ??
I have never been banned for being childish. I have been banned for breaking the rules on namecalling. essentially telling people off using harsher language than allowed.
I have also had enough. That is why I am doing exactly as I promised I would if the Jack Pack did not leave me alone. They decided to continue so instead of more words I will simply make similar cases and sell them for less.
If Jack would like to copy our work abd sell it for less here is our portfolio, www.jbcases.com/casesbyname.html
Hundreds of different models to choose from. I would suggest starting with the Mason model as it is very popular right now.
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