Jeanette Lee and the crowd
- Thread starter Buckster_uk
- Start date
First of all, I think Jeanette Lee is a wonderful amassador for the sport of pool! She looks good, she plays real good and she has overcome major obstacles to have achieved what she has in pool. Typical behavior for Gremlin is to demean a couple of people, Jeanette and the guy in the photo, and then bail. Way to go Grem! Just keep the pics coming please!
As to the comparison of how pool is depicted on TV in different countries, this is a difficult comparison considereing we have so many televised sports in this country. How many on this board would probably watch the Super Bowl over the US Open and we're pool FANatics? I think if there were fewer sports to watch in the US, people might spend more time watching pool more, they might even get interested in the skills that players have as well. I love to watch boxing and I would much rather see two fighters with great skills fighting a chess-match type fight that goes for 12 rounds than watch a bloodfest/knockout because I love to watch two people at the top of their game using all their skills in an attempt to win a tough battle. People in the US just have too many other options to invest the time to watch pool enough to get hooked on the inticracies of the game.
As to the comparison of how pool is depicted on TV in different countries, this is a difficult comparison considereing we have so many televised sports in this country. How many on this board would probably watch the Super Bowl over the US Open and we're pool FANatics? I think if there were fewer sports to watch in the US, people might spend more time watching pool more, they might even get interested in the skills that players have as well. I love to watch boxing and I would much rather see two fighters with great skills fighting a chess-match type fight that goes for 12 rounds than watch a bloodfest/knockout because I love to watch two people at the top of their game using all their skills in an attempt to win a tough battle. People in the US just have too many other options to invest the time to watch pool enough to get hooked on the inticracies of the game.
Gremlin said:
Hey Gremlin,
Where are you getting your assumptions? The studies done in the past several years just do not reflect your statement. Here is a recent exert from a press release put out by the BCA:
"Since the tournament began airing in 1999 it has received added broadcasts each year, with a record 64 hours in 2003 and 49 thus far in 2004. Of the current hours, viewer ratings have jumped from a .29 average rating (253,469 households) for the debut showings of all four rounds in June, to a peak of .49 (431,161) for a single showing of the Men’s final in mid-July. ESPN’s benchmark rating average for all taped sporting events is .20, making billiards an audience winner."
Furthermore, in the studies conducted by SGMA there has been a steady increase in billiards participation since the 90's. The problem comes in the form of the old parable "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." People who are not into pool are not gonna play or watch it on TV, why would they? I know I don't follow the things I am not interested in. Pool needs to do things to make it interesting for the audience, thus it will arouse their interest. I am by no means a Jeanette Lee fan, but you have to admit she has something...she has made herself one of the most (if not the most) recognizable faces and name in billiards. It was amazing how many people in the casinos during a tourney who do not have tickets come up and ask about "The Black Widow."
I will leave you and everyone else with this fact that was in a SGMA press release, "Given the growing ‘casual’ player base and decline in serious players, there is concern that billiards is perceived by the consumer as less of a sport and more of a social, recreational activity. With so many ‘casual’ players, billiards is susceptible to less media exposure."
And there you have it.
Jeanette Lee is a great pool player. I don't think that many people would argue that fact. But...
I am up late working tonight and I have a tape of the 2004 Brunswick Delta Classic on in the background. Jeanette just beat Karen Corr 7-4...I have seen both players play better, but that is not what I noticed the most. After Jeanette pocketed the winning 9-ball, instead of going over and shaking Karen's hand, she marched right over to the t.v. camera and celebrated, saying hello to various family members, cheering herself on, and pumping her fist. Then she faced the crowd and received their congratulations. By the time she finally went over to shake Karen's hand, Karen had already packed up her cues and didn't even bother to get off of her chair to shake Jeanette's hand.
In summary...I do not think that Jeanette behaving in such a manner is good for the game. No matter how well or how poorly she played, she should not have disrespected her opponent (especially a class act like Karen Corr) because she was too busy working the crowd.
Nuff said.
I am up late working tonight and I have a tape of the 2004 Brunswick Delta Classic on in the background. Jeanette just beat Karen Corr 7-4...I have seen both players play better, but that is not what I noticed the most. After Jeanette pocketed the winning 9-ball, instead of going over and shaking Karen's hand, she marched right over to the t.v. camera and celebrated, saying hello to various family members, cheering herself on, and pumping her fist. Then she faced the crowd and received their congratulations. By the time she finally went over to shake Karen's hand, Karen had already packed up her cues and didn't even bother to get off of her chair to shake Jeanette's hand.
In summary...I do not think that Jeanette behaving in such a manner is good for the game. No matter how well or how poorly she played, she should not have disrespected her opponent (especially a class act like Karen Corr) because she was too busy working the crowd.
Nuff said.
Miss Q said:
i see where you're coming from here.....but.......honestly, when you lose a match......do you really care if the opponent comes over and shakes your hand???? i'll be honest, if i lose, i really couldn't care less if i shake their hand. i'm not a bad sport, and i don't get loud or anything when i lose, i just don't put to much emphasis on the shaking hands thing. you don't see pro sports teams rushing out to the field to shake hands with the opponents when they win the world series or superbowl.......they are leaping into the crowd and celebrating. i don't think she disrespected karen, and i don't think karen really cared either way. just my opinion though.
nuff said
thanks
Gremlin said:
Here you are Gremlin, the study (They do one every year.) Well it is not the study exactly, more like the press release on how to get the study, LOL. Has anyone seen this study? If so could you PM me, I would like to see if it is worth my money.
SGMA International is "the association of the sports product industry dedicated to growing the business of sports and fitness world wide."
Gremlin said:
OK Gremlin, your numbers are from American society as a whole, not billiards related stats. The study which I speak of seems to have ALL demographics considered, including income, age, sex, ethnicity, and etc... Please don't think that I am trying to sell a study, but it appears (and I have not seen all of it, just what has been available on the net) that this is a very INCLUSIVE study done with the focus purely on billiards. You can not go around spouting off numbers based solely on the population as a whole. That is not fair and it is unreliable. The whole country doesn't like billiards and the whole country doesn't like baseball. What is significant is the numbers that ESPN is reporting for their billiards programming and compare that to their benchmark. The ratings are HIGHER than their benchmark! This says something. You show me rating for a single show were the whole US population tunes in....you can't. What is also significant is that participation in the sport is steadily INCREASING. This is the type of stuff potential sponsors want to know...they could care less about how many people live in America, how many die and are born. They want to sell a product, so they wanna know how many people tune in to the show they may advertise on, how many people play, what are the demograpics of those that participate.
And yes, I can agree to disagree.
Gremlin said:
What???? Pool is a game of chance? Not hardly. Poker, Slot Machines, Blackjack, Craps, the Lottery....those are games of chance. There is some skill involved with the card games, but they are still games of chance to a large degree. Pool is NOT a game of chance, it is a game of skill...whether it's a "sport" or not is another matter entirely (my opinion is that it's as much a sport as golf), but it is definitely not a game of chance unless you just don't know what you are doing.
Jeanette is naturally an "up" personality. Before she moved from the West Coast I saw her on a regular basis practising, often times with Helena Thornfelt and she was always having a good time. I remember her playing with One Eye John, who is in his eighties and about 5' 3" with an absolute ton of knowledge. He would play one handed and she would play left handed and you could hear the two of them laughing throughout the room at Hard Times.
As far as her promoting herself--good for her. Her window is small and if she doesn't promote herself aggressively and take every advantage that opens up for her she would be cheating herself as no one else is going to do it for her. She loves the game, she loves the rush she gets in successfully promoting herself and she is good at it. I heard her on a local sport radio show the "Loose Cannons" last week with Steve Hartman and she came across just great!
I totally agree that the circus atmosphere they are forced to play in is farcial and embarrassing. It would be the same if a talented stand up comedian were forced to have a laugh track during a live performance. Unfortunately that is the current status of pool in the good old US of A.
As far as her promoting herself--good for her. Her window is small and if she doesn't promote herself aggressively and take every advantage that opens up for her she would be cheating herself as no one else is going to do it for her. She loves the game, she loves the rush she gets in successfully promoting herself and she is good at it. I heard her on a local sport radio show the "Loose Cannons" last week with Steve Hartman and she came across just great!
I totally agree that the circus atmosphere they are forced to play in is farcial and embarrassing. It would be the same if a talented stand up comedian were forced to have a laugh track during a live performance. Unfortunately that is the current status of pool in the good old US of A.
JL makes good money via her pool career, because she is such a good business woman and promoter. (Not to mention her playing skills)
When average Joes discover I'm a pool player, guess what comes next? Almost to a person, they'll tell me that they watch "those ladies on tv...and man can they play!" Then they discuss who "that oriental woman" is and that blonde that "never misses."
I think this tapping of the general tv audience is good for the future of pool and I thank Jeanette's business skills for a lot of it.
If you don't like it, don't watch it. Or better yet, outcompete Jeanette and do it your way that's how we do it in the states.
Capitalism rules!
Jeff Livingston
When average Joes discover I'm a pool player, guess what comes next? Almost to a person, they'll tell me that they watch "those ladies on tv...and man can they play!" Then they discuss who "that oriental woman" is and that blonde that "never misses."
I think this tapping of the general tv audience is good for the future of pool and I thank Jeanette's business skills for a lot of it.
If you don't like it, don't watch it. Or better yet, outcompete Jeanette and do it your way that's how we do it in the states.
Capitalism rules!
Jeff Livingston
STR1PES
shoot2thrill-play2kill
So she high fives when she wins. That's emotion, pool players should be able to display it no matter if they are Professionals, Amateurs, or just casual players. Now yes You would think that she would at least shake hands or somthing after a win, but if she doesn't what does it matter. It isn't like she is running around the table after every game and saying, you suck.
Jeez
At this past seasons Canadian Classic the very,very sweet and lovable Julie Kelly defeated her friend Karen Corr and what followed was an extremely exuberant display of Celebration. Julie was celebrating "HER WIN" not her opponents defeat! It's the same with Jeanette. As to shaking hands, it was a little while before Julie got around to shaking Karens hand and they are friends who see each other nearly every day.Hell from what was said during the match Julie and Karen were riding together in the same car on the way home.
Yes Jeanette celebrates. Big deal! I doubt very seriously that she was trying to diss Kimmy. Just like me, Jeanette also talks to the balls,the table,the pool Gods up above.So what? Jeanette is outgoing and emotional.If some don't like that then don't watch her matches,I'm sure that's really gonna break her heart.
Those who are attacking Jeanette should also ask themselves why her... and why not attack Karen for her Irish jig or Jennifer Chen,or Julie Kelly or Melissa Herndon or Gerda and any number of others who show emotions or speak or celebate when they win!
Terry
At this past seasons Canadian Classic the very,very sweet and lovable Julie Kelly defeated her friend Karen Corr and what followed was an extremely exuberant display of Celebration. Julie was celebrating "HER WIN" not her opponents defeat! It's the same with Jeanette. As to shaking hands, it was a little while before Julie got around to shaking Karens hand and they are friends who see each other nearly every day.Hell from what was said during the match Julie and Karen were riding together in the same car on the way home.
Yes Jeanette celebrates. Big deal! I doubt very seriously that she was trying to diss Kimmy. Just like me, Jeanette also talks to the balls,the table,the pool Gods up above.So what? Jeanette is outgoing and emotional.If some don't like that then don't watch her matches,I'm sure that's really gonna break her heart.
Those who are attacking Jeanette should also ask themselves why her... and why not attack Karen for her Irish jig or Jennifer Chen,or Julie Kelly or Melissa Herndon or Gerda and any number of others who show emotions or speak or celebate when they win!
Terry
Gremlin,
I don't want to argue with you. If you think this is wasting your time then just say "no". I never said you were a "Black Widow" fan. As a matter of fact, you didn't have to tell me who you are a fan of and that's your prerogative. I just didn't think you were making the point just because Jeanette was hi-fiving a fan that she was being disrespectful to her opponent. Now Miss Q on the other hand, made an excellent point about Jeanette being rude to her opponent and all I can say about that is that Jeanette should read this board and start exercising better ettiquette on and around the table.
As for SJM, I have not read anything yet from him that is demeaning to anyone and If you think that we are alike, "clones", I take that as a compliment. Unlike him, you jump in and say some of the meanest things about people and then disappear because I guess you are so busy with whatever it is that you do. On the positive side, you share some of the best pics on the board and I know that everyone appreciates that as well as me. I just don't understand why you have to be so negative at times. Cheer for those you like and leave the rest alone.
Have a good day Gremlin, and please, be positive.
I don't want to argue with you. If you think this is wasting your time then just say "no". I never said you were a "Black Widow" fan. As a matter of fact, you didn't have to tell me who you are a fan of and that's your prerogative. I just didn't think you were making the point just because Jeanette was hi-fiving a fan that she was being disrespectful to her opponent. Now Miss Q on the other hand, made an excellent point about Jeanette being rude to her opponent and all I can say about that is that Jeanette should read this board and start exercising better ettiquette on and around the table.
As for SJM, I have not read anything yet from him that is demeaning to anyone and If you think that we are alike, "clones", I take that as a compliment. Unlike him, you jump in and say some of the meanest things about people and then disappear because I guess you are so busy with whatever it is that you do. On the positive side, you share some of the best pics on the board and I know that everyone appreciates that as well as me. I just don't understand why you have to be so negative at times. Cheer for those you like and leave the rest alone.
Have a good day Gremlin, and please, be positive.
Gremlin said:Hello Rickw,
Your biased and in accurate comments force me to type a comment here which is a waste of my valuable time. First of all I am not a “Black Widow” fan as typed in my original post. There is a time and a place for carnival antics and that close to Kim wasn’t the time and the place for it.
I did not demean anyone, they did that to themselves, as the photo demonstrates. I am well aware of Jeanette Lee’s history and I respect her efforts but I am not her fan. Many other people have inspired my life and Jeanette Lee isn’t one of them. The Jeanette Lee show for a
reported $8,000 a show only benefits Jeanette Lee. A poolroom owner has to sell a lot of table time, food, drinks to have her around? She is supposed to have been in DC or will be but I won’t be there.
Unlike your clone SJM I totally disagree with your poorly conceived, condescending, assessment of why people don’t watch pool. The first and most important reason is they have no time. The second is they have no idea it is broadcast because of poor advertising. The third is thanks to the economy a family of 4 has to spend more than 40 hours a week to survive and they have less time for recreation. As for the photos here is the final 9-Ball of the tournament and Allison became tournament champion. I am not her fan either but it made me very happy. Jeanette second, Jeniffer Chen third.
“Gremlin”
STR1PES
shoot2thrill-play2kill
Tbeaux said:Jeanette probably wouldn't take part as she deals with a great deal of back pain.
That's Ok, maybe I should change that from a Hiney Spank to a Message celebration. Right after she wins she strips down(in a changing booth of course), gets thrown a towel, walks out and lays on the pool table and the loser has to give her a 5 minute message while televised.
STR1PES said:
One word, ettiquete. I'd have to say that a Professional should shake his/her opponents hand immediately after the match, just like we always see in tennis, golf, squash, etc. It's ettiquete, and it should be maintained IMO.
Dave
STR1PES said:
Nah,Jeanettes not the flake some folks think she is (really very traditional).But she probably does enjoy a nice massage.Jeanette has had a rod inserted in her back because of spinal curvature and I think it causes her a lot of pain.Her chosen occupation probably doesn't help any with the pain either so you know she must absolutely love pool.