Jeff Black
Registered
Hi. I received a phone call from an individual who participates in this forum urging me to introduce myself to the AZ group via the forums. I guess this is the right place?
Jeff Black
- Thread starter Jeff Black
- Start date
Hi Jeff, Thanks for trying to do something for table mechanics across the country.
It is as well as being the right place to reach and converse with many of the top billiard mechanics in the country so welcome aboard.
ABIA being a topic of discussion these days why not start off with letting us know your background as relates to the billiards industry and what motivated you to create the ABIA.
Rob, seriously man, lay off the weed.
This is really Jeff Black, so lets bring on the questions.
Jeff Black
Registered
Hi and thanks for the welcome. Dartman to answer your questions I began working with my father moving and recovering pool tables at 15 and have been involved in the industry either working on or selling pool tables. The last 5 years I have spent my time promoting local billiard moving and service businesses and stores across the country online to customers who are in need of pool table work.
The ABIA was formed due to a combination of a declining economy, the entry of a large number of inexperienced mechanics into the industry competing with more established mechanics and charging much less in addition to rising material costs from the manufacturers in the industry.
Having contact with so many mechanics around the country because of my promotions of the businesses I was able to hear a lot about what was causing them problems with their businesses. Another factor for me was that for whatever reason it seems almost impossible for mechanics to work together to achieve something and I believe that this costs individuals lot in products because we purchase so little from distributors while separate, the ability to form a group could lead us to discounts with manufacturers and distributors....... that is of course if mechanics could work together to achieve the goal.
Rob to answer your question the ABIA was created in the vision that members would make the decisions and create the plan keeping in mind the two goals of the association which are to create standards for mechanics and to save members money.
The ABIA was formed due to a combination of a declining economy, the entry of a large number of inexperienced mechanics into the industry competing with more established mechanics and charging much less in addition to rising material costs from the manufacturers in the industry.
Having contact with so many mechanics around the country because of my promotions of the businesses I was able to hear a lot about what was causing them problems with their businesses. Another factor for me was that for whatever reason it seems almost impossible for mechanics to work together to achieve something and I believe that this costs individuals lot in products because we purchase so little from distributors while separate, the ability to form a group could lead us to discounts with manufacturers and distributors....... that is of course if mechanics could work together to achieve the goal.
Rob to answer your question the ABIA was created in the vision that members would make the decisions and create the plan keeping in mind the two goals of the association which are to create standards for mechanics and to save members money.
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Thanks for the red rep! what are you like 10 years old?
Thanks for your response Jeff.
From the inception I think a lot of us looked at ABIA as a great way to raise the standards for billiard mechanics. The criteria to demonstrate proficiency with table work AND provide proof of being a legitimate business creates a lot of distance from a hack with a small toolbox and a carpenters level working out of a trunk. This was the expectation that hasn't come to pass - yet.
Briefly - what you currently promote doesn't require a prospective member to satisfy both requirements and IMO this is a major problem. Simply certifying that someone has insurance and a business license says nothing about their quality of work and this is where ABIA needs to have reasonable and testable standards in place. Granted someone can also apply to be tested however this should be part of the process, not an option for certification.
Further - over the past year we've been hit with numerous emails and press releases that pertain to things other then getting fully certified members on board which would allow the organization to progress to a point where it could actually be marketed to the public. I'd hope that what's been discussed on the forum has gotten back to you for review and evaluation. We've been in the dark as to who was behind the ABIA as well as the real purpose so it speaks well for you to join in here.
You can call me pessimistic or preferably the devils advocate but in reality there are many here (including myself) that think the organization can be successful in its' intended purpose. The best people in the business are right here and willing to help push the train forward as long as it's in the right direction.
Rick
From the inception I think a lot of us looked at ABIA as a great way to raise the standards for billiard mechanics. The criteria to demonstrate proficiency with table work AND provide proof of being a legitimate business creates a lot of distance from a hack with a small toolbox and a carpenters level working out of a trunk. This was the expectation that hasn't come to pass - yet.
Briefly - what you currently promote doesn't require a prospective member to satisfy both requirements and IMO this is a major problem. Simply certifying that someone has insurance and a business license says nothing about their quality of work and this is where ABIA needs to have reasonable and testable standards in place. Granted someone can also apply to be tested however this should be part of the process, not an option for certification.
Further - over the past year we've been hit with numerous emails and press releases that pertain to things other then getting fully certified members on board which would allow the organization to progress to a point where it could actually be marketed to the public. I'd hope that what's been discussed on the forum has gotten back to you for review and evaluation. We've been in the dark as to who was behind the ABIA as well as the real purpose so it speaks well for you to join in here.
You can call me pessimistic or preferably the devils advocate but in reality there are many here (including myself) that think the organization can be successful in its' intended purpose. The best people in the business are right here and willing to help push the train forward as long as it's in the right direction.
Rick
Jeff Black
Registered
No problem... thanks. So I was hoping some of the users of this site could voice some of their questions so I could clear up any misunderstandings that may be out there about the ABIA. I know you guys are busy but I will continue checking in on anything that may come up and I can answer any questions to the best of my ability.
Yes I have known about this forum since the ABIA was first announced. I am impressed with the passion and dedication of the group here and many of them have been asked to assist in the development of the organization for us.
Yes I have known about this forum since the ABIA was first announced. I am impressed with the passion and dedication of the group here and many of them have been asked to assist in the development of the organization for us.
Jeff Black
Registered
Rick thanks. Yes there has been some misunderstandings about certifications by the ABIA.
ABIA certification involves two levels, one establishing the legitimacy of the company and the other involves the technical standards required for certification.
The first level is currently the only one in process. The second (the one readers are really interested in) is being designed by a group of mechanics who are frequent users of this forum.
With very little support and resources you can imagine it is very difficult to put a project of that scope together. One of the main questions on everybody's mind is "who will do the certifying". Well I cannot answer that at this point, that is going to be in the hands of the mechanics developing the plan.
This plan will take patience and some levels of dedication but I have a general vision of how to implement it and I am going to relay that to the team working on the technical certification and if they choose to use it or parts of it that will be up to them.
I also feel it is important to mention that the ABIA has two sides. Certification is very important but we cannot think about it in terms of only certification. The ABIA needs numbers to achieve it´s goals as a group and it is important that an organization with low membership accomplishes very little. At this point I do not believe there is such an entity that supports the small billiard business. I am focused on raising the membership levels and I am also very focused on achieving discounts for members on quality materials.
I believe if the organization only focuses on certification it will not be successful at becoming a true voice in the industry, at the current moment mechanics have no voice and no representation so a balance between certification and membership benefits and levels should be maintained in order to obtain the success that we all want for our organization.
With the proper balance and positive member communication there will be doors opening where there currently are not for us all.
ABIA certification involves two levels, one establishing the legitimacy of the company and the other involves the technical standards required for certification.
The first level is currently the only one in process. The second (the one readers are really interested in) is being designed by a group of mechanics who are frequent users of this forum.
With very little support and resources you can imagine it is very difficult to put a project of that scope together. One of the main questions on everybody's mind is "who will do the certifying". Well I cannot answer that at this point, that is going to be in the hands of the mechanics developing the plan.
This plan will take patience and some levels of dedication but I have a general vision of how to implement it and I am going to relay that to the team working on the technical certification and if they choose to use it or parts of it that will be up to them.
I also feel it is important to mention that the ABIA has two sides. Certification is very important but we cannot think about it in terms of only certification. The ABIA needs numbers to achieve it´s goals as a group and it is important that an organization with low membership accomplishes very little. At this point I do not believe there is such an entity that supports the small billiard business. I am focused on raising the membership levels and I am also very focused on achieving discounts for members on quality materials.
I believe if the organization only focuses on certification it will not be successful at becoming a true voice in the industry, at the current moment mechanics have no voice and no representation so a balance between certification and membership benefits and levels should be maintained in order to obtain the success that we all want for our organization.
With the proper balance and positive member communication there will be doors opening where there currently are not for us all.
Certainly a work in progress and hopefully we may start seeing more of that progress soon. Just to reiterate - if a member is not "required" to complete an ability test then it's important that there be a category distinction of verified and certified. Seems foolish to join and not apply to be a fully certified member however I'd suppose there are some that may lack some confidence in their abilities or require additional training.
You're spot on concerning what we really want to see and I have faith in the guys working behind the scenes to come up with a workable solution for members to pass an ability test. The fully certified members, IMO, are what will drive the organization and create desire from non-members to sign on.
As for who will do the certifying - there are mechanics already involved from AZB that are at the top of the game with an unquestionable reputation. These are guys that do excellent work yet still open to ways to improve. I have no doubt they will offer an effective plan for going forward.
As for materials discounts - just my opinion but a lot of guys are already getting good pricing thru various suppliers and mfg so I'm not so sure that type of benefit is going to be a major selling point to established members. I'd venture to say that getting referrals for work is probably tops on the wish list.
Rick
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how can you tell if you got a red rep?
I want to first say that the use of the work "Certified" was a bad choice of word to describe a member of this ABIA because it's misleading, and being used as a way of saying a member knows how to work on a pool table...when in fact that word should have been "registered member"
You could have 100's of registered members, even thousands....I don't really care, what bothers me....is the use of the word..."Certified" So, your first priority should have been to explain that you were offering a membership to the ABIA.
Then, if I were doing something like this, I'd have 2 pricing structures for all members, one being the price of products for "registered members"...and the second being the pricing of products for members that have proved that they know how to work on pool tables...correctly, and there for have been "certified" as such...a certified installer! You can not use the word "certified" to describe the daily duties of someone that works for a retail store going out and setting up pool tables like setting up building blocks....with someone like myself, whereas setting up pool tables to me is child's play...so much so that I'd rather not even do that...meaning save that for someone else to do. There is a strong difference between a "Certified" installer...and a table mechanic...as well as a master table mechanic...or "Billiards Technician".
Then, why are you trying to sell this ABIA thing...to the foreign table manufactures first...before selling it to Brunswick, Olhausen, Diamond, Valley, Global...and quite a few other table retailers right here in this country. Same goes for the cloth retailers, Simonis, Championship, Granito, Mali, Sterling.
Why are you determined to undercut them...by offering cloth through the ABIA that has no background, no history, no proof that it's even worth the money you're asking for it? I for one wouldn't change to a different kind of cloth just because someone offered it to me cheaper.
Glen
Rob...you were out of line
and the red rep was uncalled for Ask Mr. Wilson if he can take it back from John, as you made a mistake and jumped before you got your facts straightGlen
Jeff, I have a few questions, but first I want to let you know upfront that I've been one of the biggest doubters and critics of the ABIA on this forum. Just so you don't have to search and read through multiple threads and posts, I'll list the problems I've had with your organization.
1. Lack of any indication that there was a process of due diligence put into the formation and mission of the ABIA. Last September emails started flying from the ABIA to mechanics. Despite the fact that at that point in time not a single mechanic from this forum knew about the ABIA, every effort was made in those emails to portray the ABIA as a new, but established organization with an active membership.
2. Deceptive communication. From the beginning, the ABIA website and ABIA emails have been deceptive. A "news" item on your website describes how the "volunteer staff" have "received notification" from the "only national billiard installation company" regarding using ABIA certified companies. Isn't it true that the "volunteer staff" is you? Isn't it also true that the "national billiard installation company" is Install Gurus, another business entity owned by you? Isn't it also true that you are behind IC Billiard Cloth? How are we to believe that the ABIA's mission is to assist mechanics when it seems that every move seems to serve Jeff Black's wallet?
3. Lack of any forward momentum in actually conceiving a certification process, let alone implementing one. Fourteen months isn't long enough to implement some semblance of a certification process? The current "company certification" isn't even as stringent as Angie's List and is completely useless. As others have pointed out, any crackhead can get a business license and anyone with a mediocre credit score and a couple hundred bucks can get insurance.
4. Lack of integrity and misleading statements. The email sent to Mr. Bond was riddled with insults and contempt. I find it hard to believe that anyone in a service based industry would actually write that. I find it even harder to believe that the person who wrote that is actually asking for support in a leadership role within a service based industry. Mr. Bond deserves a sincere apology.
And the complete absurdity of your statements that "powerful industry heads" and distributors want to "gain control" of the ABIA cannot be overlooked. Do you really expect us to believe that? Industry and trade organizations are built on goodwill, and yet you seem to have no shortage of bad things to say about groups like MBS and even the BCA? What organization has done more to promote the sport that allows us to feed our families than the BCA? And really.... MBS wanted to gain control of the ABIA?
Since the ABIA started I've seen secrecy, deception, profiteering, contempt for other organizations within the industry, insulting emails to people who just want answers, and undelivered promises. What does the ABIA have to offer me if I'm forced to question the motivation of every move that's made?
1. Lack of any indication that there was a process of due diligence put into the formation and mission of the ABIA. Last September emails started flying from the ABIA to mechanics. Despite the fact that at that point in time not a single mechanic from this forum knew about the ABIA, every effort was made in those emails to portray the ABIA as a new, but established organization with an active membership.
2. Deceptive communication. From the beginning, the ABIA website and ABIA emails have been deceptive. A "news" item on your website describes how the "volunteer staff" have "received notification" from the "only national billiard installation company" regarding using ABIA certified companies. Isn't it true that the "volunteer staff" is you? Isn't it also true that the "national billiard installation company" is Install Gurus, another business entity owned by you? Isn't it also true that you are behind IC Billiard Cloth? How are we to believe that the ABIA's mission is to assist mechanics when it seems that every move seems to serve Jeff Black's wallet?
3. Lack of any forward momentum in actually conceiving a certification process, let alone implementing one. Fourteen months isn't long enough to implement some semblance of a certification process? The current "company certification" isn't even as stringent as Angie's List and is completely useless. As others have pointed out, any crackhead can get a business license and anyone with a mediocre credit score and a couple hundred bucks can get insurance.
4. Lack of integrity and misleading statements. The email sent to Mr. Bond was riddled with insults and contempt. I find it hard to believe that anyone in a service based industry would actually write that. I find it even harder to believe that the person who wrote that is actually asking for support in a leadership role within a service based industry. Mr. Bond deserves a sincere apology.
And the complete absurdity of your statements that "powerful industry heads" and distributors want to "gain control" of the ABIA cannot be overlooked. Do you really expect us to believe that? Industry and trade organizations are built on goodwill, and yet you seem to have no shortage of bad things to say about groups like MBS and even the BCA? What organization has done more to promote the sport that allows us to feed our families than the BCA? And really.... MBS wanted to gain control of the ABIA?
Since the ABIA started I've seen secrecy, deception, profiteering, contempt for other organizations within the industry, insulting emails to people who just want answers, and undelivered promises. What does the ABIA have to offer me if I'm forced to question the motivation of every move that's made?
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Looks like you're getting the same questions that I asked in an email response to you last spring....
Blowing off educated questions is a good way to run into some solid roadblocks, and the certification questions obviously still haven't been resolved.
And you never know who the customer may actually be on the other end. Not in this industry.
I've been talking to Mechanics around the country to get feedback and info on the ABIA, for a while now, on and off the forum, and the general feedback is this- no standards to determine certification, no follow through, and no face behind the label leaves alot to be desired. Add that to the competition against american based companies in favor of importing cheaper products isn't necessarily what we are looking for. Being the best generally means also USING the best, even if it's a personal preference between Simonis and Tour Edition for example. There are plenty of Brunswick, Olhausen, Connelly, Diamond, and other distributors on this forum who don't wan,t or need, to change their standards to compete with the best manufacturers in the American Industry. How many of your members can move and setup a Gabriel's or a Verhoeven. I know I asked this in the email I sent you in response to certification. Granted they aren't american companies, but they are definitely not something your average Joe can run to throw together.
Until there is a standard with creditable sources and mechanics to show the drive behind the move, a piece of paper with a member ID number means less to a knowledgeable customer than a craigslist posting from a hack.
If you want to prove your sincerity in improving the standards of the industry, you can start by being the change and leading by example, not showing indications of doing the same thing under a different guise and method.
Listen to the voices of experience- there's alot of it out there, and none that I respect more than the voices in this forum. If Jay, Glen, Mark and others voice an opinion, it would probably be a good idea to take notes.
Although for the record, I also find it interesting that the ABIA materialized at the same time that we were discussing getting organized ourselves last year.... within days actually. So, explain that too while you're at it. 200 years without anything like this, and it happens twice in the same month, using the same M.O. but one with less stringent requirements than was discussed on this forum. Interesting.
Blowing off educated questions is a good way to run into some solid roadblocks, and the certification questions obviously still haven't been resolved.
And you never know who the customer may actually be on the other end. Not in this industry.
I've been talking to Mechanics around the country to get feedback and info on the ABIA, for a while now, on and off the forum, and the general feedback is this- no standards to determine certification, no follow through, and no face behind the label leaves alot to be desired. Add that to the competition against american based companies in favor of importing cheaper products isn't necessarily what we are looking for. Being the best generally means also USING the best, even if it's a personal preference between Simonis and Tour Edition for example. There are plenty of Brunswick, Olhausen, Connelly, Diamond, and other distributors on this forum who don't wan,t or need, to change their standards to compete with the best manufacturers in the American Industry. How many of your members can move and setup a Gabriel's or a Verhoeven. I know I asked this in the email I sent you in response to certification. Granted they aren't american companies, but they are definitely not something your average Joe can run to throw together.
Until there is a standard with creditable sources and mechanics to show the drive behind the move, a piece of paper with a member ID number means less to a knowledgeable customer than a craigslist posting from a hack.
If you want to prove your sincerity in improving the standards of the industry, you can start by being the change and leading by example, not showing indications of doing the same thing under a different guise and method.
Listen to the voices of experience- there's alot of it out there, and none that I respect more than the voices in this forum. If Jay, Glen, Mark and others voice an opinion, it would probably be a good idea to take notes.
Although for the record, I also find it interesting that the ABIA materialized at the same time that we were discussing getting organized ourselves last year.... within days actually. So, explain that too while you're at it. 200 years without anything like this, and it happens twice in the same month, using the same M.O. but one with less stringent requirements than was discussed on this forum. Interesting.
I can't help but wonder where the organization would be now if you joined the forum at that time. As previously stated, the best in the business are right here and willing to help with suggestions and recommendations. These are also the people you need to endorse the organization in order to gain respect and credibility for your membership.
The concept of an organization of billiard mechanics is good and hopefully the efforts of John B and others will help with the damage control needed.
Jeff Black
Registered
In response to a post from Quick Edward. Thanks for your questions. I will take the time to answer your questions because they seem to be a representation of others concerns.
1. Question regarding due diligence and the fact that not a sigle mechanic on this forum knew about the ABIA when it was created. What would you suggest be required in order for someone to start a trade organization? I was not aware of this forum before the ABIA started and I am still unfamiliar with the people involved here, I'm getting to know some of them but this question is worded in such a manner than there needed to be permission from this group to create this organization so I do not know what you are looking for with this statement.
2 On deceptive commmunication and the fact that I am involved in the billiard industry. Yes it is true that I am involved in the billiard industry and this involves giving work to installers / mechanics across the country and promoting their businesses. I have been involved with obtaining customers for mechanics for almost a decade and many of them rely on my services for their businesses, this part is true. I will not comment on other businesses other than they are designed to offer work and profits to
mechanics, this has been my daily objective for around 10 years and believe it or not I assume there are even small billiard businesses who appreciate my efforts for their businesses, they may not want to make themselves known publicly because of the controversy but they are here watching and waiting.
IC Billiard Cloth....not at all. Many are confused about this. IC Billiard Cloth was a name created for the cloth, it's a line of cloth not a company and it is in no way affilated with the ABIA or me personally or professionally besides giving discounts to members. It may appear this way as the program continues to evolve and the distributor has requested that for the time being the ABIA place orders on behalf of it's members so they can distinguish between members and non members easily as they have their own customers as well. I can understand the speculation but I have to get that out there. The billiard cloth program as been misunderstood since it started. All positive efforts for members have been trashed by mechanics and distributors alike.
Yes there are now manufacturers who are requesting that the installations of their products be installed by certified companies of the ABIA. This does not hurt members or you and yes I deal with larger distributors and manufacturers because of my reputation of excellent work and dedication to my clients and mechanics and my ability to get things done that others see as impossible. I do not need to throw names around or boast, there is plenty of that here already.
3. Lack of momentum of certification.
I have to admit you are right. One person trying to accomplish this goal nationwide for an entire industry is extremely difficult and I am surprised at the progress that the ABIA has made so far.
In addition the ABIA was sidetracked for over 6 months by associating with someone with the BCA. This along with other contacts with distributors ultimately lead to the lack of transparency that has been an effort to protect the momentum of memberships to ensure survival of the organization. The majority of ABIA members were insistent on remaining an independent group not affiliated with the BCA. Certification will continue regardless, the panel who has volunteered can re-classify, re-structure or whatever else needs to be done to make it successful. Flexibility, trial and error is key.
4. On lack of integrity. Nothing that as been put out has been false. Just because you are not familair with the situation does not mean it's not happening or has not happened. There are those out there that definitely do not want to see mechanics organize for whatever reason and I know first hand there are distributors who absolutely do not want us to rally for discounts, these people IMO create the most objection to the ABIA and it's mission and pose the most problematic obstacles for the ABIA. I have outrageous emails from representatives of distributors but will not post them in public forums as I do not believe a man with integrity and respect publicly critiques the values of individuals.
It has also been stated that in over 200 years there has never been a successful organization of mechanics. An outsider could look at this forum and give you an answer to this in a second, take a look around these posts, they are riddled with negativity and fighting amongst each other. For this organization to succeed it needs people who are not afraid to protect their interests, people who are willing to open their minds and people who have vision of the future and truly have the mechanic and installer in mind, not just themselves. Seriously not to put anyone down but one of the highest viewed sections of this site is pictures of hackwork? This does nothing for us. We know bad work when we see it but this is where we focus our efforts and time? This forum is extremely important if used correctly and positively I think.
You reference profiteering. That's fine. I have put over a year and a half into creating and managing this organization for mechanics and have had several obstacles to deal with and successes that have been achieved as well and this has been at my expense not my gain. I do not know you but if you are a mechanic I am sure you don't get in your vehicle every morning knowing you aren't going to collect your fee. In fact I have spent over 45 minutes personally addressing your concerns and for this I will certainly not be compensated, chances are it will only end up in more blows to the organization and personal integrity but let me say that people are are getting tired of that. On the other hand the continuous flow of positive thanks, appreciation and support that I recieve from members of the ABIA outweigh the few negative things posted here recently about me.
When the ABIA was started I knew it was going to be a long difficult road but all things take time and must be carefully cultivated in order to achieve the goals that mechanics want in the industry.
Quephoric to address your concerns which I hope many of them have already been addressed above.
There are many companies in our industry who will always seek lower pricing. I do not know of anyone that seeks out vendors and asks themselves "What is the highest price I can pay for this item?" Not to be disrespectful but these products you speak of are already imported correct?
Regarding another group being formed. I was told that was in the works for years and I believe that it will be a positive addition to the industry, if you can identify those mechanics who are absolutely of the highest level of experience you can single them out to make the most money in the industry, my fear however is that there will be so few the concept may not gain much support nationwide. I mean honestly there are so few of you that are of that calibre correct? I for sure am not in that category and would never claim to be, not even close. Most of my experience has been standard residential customers who support the small businesses like retail stores and the manufacturers that disribute their tables.
The ABIA is about small businesses and having a voice that is a representation of the industry as a whole, not just mechanics who have knowledge of practices and experience working on brands that 90 percent of the industry has never heard of. The evil twin of certification will be numbers. The certification group hopefully will keep this in mind. On the other hand we are all available to create the ABIA. Noting is in stone, programs can always be initiated and if there should be a place for these mechanics in another category to achieve their goals of master certification or whatever you want to call it then I am sure the ABIA would accommodate these mechanics because mechanics are what the ABIA was created for after all.
Finally I am not familiar with the use of this forum and this may have been a conversation to start in the ABIA section so if anyone would be so kind as to somehow route this into the ABIA section you have created that would probably give a lot more people the answers to the questions they are looking for.
There has also been a lot of talk about the formation of the ABIA being an LLC. The LLC status of the organization was chosen during the association with the BCA representative. I was persuaded to rush and form a business organization for the ABIA so a plan could be given to the BOD as they would not listen to anything about an organization that was not a legal entity. At the time the LLC was the fastest, most cost effective and easiest organization to form for the BCA proposal, a mistake now but looking at the cost and procedure of a not for profit organization involved much more effort and energy then a hurry up and get it done quick thing that was requested. The panel for the ABIA will be making the decisions about the formation of the entity in the future.
Thanks again and I appreciate the input from this group.
1. Question regarding due diligence and the fact that not a sigle mechanic on this forum knew about the ABIA when it was created. What would you suggest be required in order for someone to start a trade organization? I was not aware of this forum before the ABIA started and I am still unfamiliar with the people involved here, I'm getting to know some of them but this question is worded in such a manner than there needed to be permission from this group to create this organization so I do not know what you are looking for with this statement.
2 On deceptive commmunication and the fact that I am involved in the billiard industry. Yes it is true that I am involved in the billiard industry and this involves giving work to installers / mechanics across the country and promoting their businesses. I have been involved with obtaining customers for mechanics for almost a decade and many of them rely on my services for their businesses, this part is true. I will not comment on other businesses other than they are designed to offer work and profits to
mechanics, this has been my daily objective for around 10 years and believe it or not I assume there are even small billiard businesses who appreciate my efforts for their businesses, they may not want to make themselves known publicly because of the controversy but they are here watching and waiting.
IC Billiard Cloth....not at all. Many are confused about this. IC Billiard Cloth was a name created for the cloth, it's a line of cloth not a company and it is in no way affilated with the ABIA or me personally or professionally besides giving discounts to members. It may appear this way as the program continues to evolve and the distributor has requested that for the time being the ABIA place orders on behalf of it's members so they can distinguish between members and non members easily as they have their own customers as well. I can understand the speculation but I have to get that out there. The billiard cloth program as been misunderstood since it started. All positive efforts for members have been trashed by mechanics and distributors alike.
Yes there are now manufacturers who are requesting that the installations of their products be installed by certified companies of the ABIA. This does not hurt members or you and yes I deal with larger distributors and manufacturers because of my reputation of excellent work and dedication to my clients and mechanics and my ability to get things done that others see as impossible. I do not need to throw names around or boast, there is plenty of that here already.
3. Lack of momentum of certification.
I have to admit you are right. One person trying to accomplish this goal nationwide for an entire industry is extremely difficult and I am surprised at the progress that the ABIA has made so far.
In addition the ABIA was sidetracked for over 6 months by associating with someone with the BCA. This along with other contacts with distributors ultimately lead to the lack of transparency that has been an effort to protect the momentum of memberships to ensure survival of the organization. The majority of ABIA members were insistent on remaining an independent group not affiliated with the BCA. Certification will continue regardless, the panel who has volunteered can re-classify, re-structure or whatever else needs to be done to make it successful. Flexibility, trial and error is key.
4. On lack of integrity. Nothing that as been put out has been false. Just because you are not familair with the situation does not mean it's not happening or has not happened. There are those out there that definitely do not want to see mechanics organize for whatever reason and I know first hand there are distributors who absolutely do not want us to rally for discounts, these people IMO create the most objection to the ABIA and it's mission and pose the most problematic obstacles for the ABIA. I have outrageous emails from representatives of distributors but will not post them in public forums as I do not believe a man with integrity and respect publicly critiques the values of individuals.
It has also been stated that in over 200 years there has never been a successful organization of mechanics. An outsider could look at this forum and give you an answer to this in a second, take a look around these posts, they are riddled with negativity and fighting amongst each other. For this organization to succeed it needs people who are not afraid to protect their interests, people who are willing to open their minds and people who have vision of the future and truly have the mechanic and installer in mind, not just themselves. Seriously not to put anyone down but one of the highest viewed sections of this site is pictures of hackwork? This does nothing for us. We know bad work when we see it but this is where we focus our efforts and time? This forum is extremely important if used correctly and positively I think.
You reference profiteering. That's fine. I have put over a year and a half into creating and managing this organization for mechanics and have had several obstacles to deal with and successes that have been achieved as well and this has been at my expense not my gain. I do not know you but if you are a mechanic I am sure you don't get in your vehicle every morning knowing you aren't going to collect your fee. In fact I have spent over 45 minutes personally addressing your concerns and for this I will certainly not be compensated, chances are it will only end up in more blows to the organization and personal integrity but let me say that people are are getting tired of that. On the other hand the continuous flow of positive thanks, appreciation and support that I recieve from members of the ABIA outweigh the few negative things posted here recently about me.
When the ABIA was started I knew it was going to be a long difficult road but all things take time and must be carefully cultivated in order to achieve the goals that mechanics want in the industry.
Quephoric to address your concerns which I hope many of them have already been addressed above.
There are many companies in our industry who will always seek lower pricing. I do not know of anyone that seeks out vendors and asks themselves "What is the highest price I can pay for this item?" Not to be disrespectful but these products you speak of are already imported correct?
Regarding another group being formed. I was told that was in the works for years and I believe that it will be a positive addition to the industry, if you can identify those mechanics who are absolutely of the highest level of experience you can single them out to make the most money in the industry, my fear however is that there will be so few the concept may not gain much support nationwide. I mean honestly there are so few of you that are of that calibre correct? I for sure am not in that category and would never claim to be, not even close. Most of my experience has been standard residential customers who support the small businesses like retail stores and the manufacturers that disribute their tables.
The ABIA is about small businesses and having a voice that is a representation of the industry as a whole, not just mechanics who have knowledge of practices and experience working on brands that 90 percent of the industry has never heard of. The evil twin of certification will be numbers. The certification group hopefully will keep this in mind. On the other hand we are all available to create the ABIA. Noting is in stone, programs can always be initiated and if there should be a place for these mechanics in another category to achieve their goals of master certification or whatever you want to call it then I am sure the ABIA would accommodate these mechanics because mechanics are what the ABIA was created for after all.
Finally I am not familiar with the use of this forum and this may have been a conversation to start in the ABIA section so if anyone would be so kind as to somehow route this into the ABIA section you have created that would probably give a lot more people the answers to the questions they are looking for.
There has also been a lot of talk about the formation of the ABIA being an LLC. The LLC status of the organization was chosen during the association with the BCA representative. I was persuaded to rush and form a business organization for the ABIA so a plan could be given to the BOD as they would not listen to anything about an organization that was not a legal entity. At the time the LLC was the fastest, most cost effective and easiest organization to form for the BCA proposal, a mistake now but looking at the cost and procedure of a not for profit organization involved much more effort and energy then a hurry up and get it done quick thing that was requested. The panel for the ABIA will be making the decisions about the formation of the entity in the future.
Thanks again and I appreciate the input from this group.
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Jeff, in all that typing you just did....all you did was beat around the bush. You keep referring to "them" and "those" and "other" like there's a whole world against you to stop you from trying to organize the mechanic's together...that's BS. As well as major distributors of lets say cloth...why would they be against mass distribution of their cloth? I know if you contacted Ivan at Simonis and struck a deal to purchase lets say 50 full bolts of cloth at a time...you'd get one hell of a discount...that's how business is done...in volume.
Glen
Glen