John Barton VS Lou Figueroa

8pack said:
Well one of Stans videos shows him doing a straight in at a pocket then all of sudden he couldnt hit the same shot at a fake pocket.(how baffling )Like I said the pocket is needed.;) I mean, that is what he's saying, isnt it?

I actually created the word rite.It just didnt make sense to use the same right as in Im turning right as your right.Rite just sounds more appropiate.:grin: Btw Rite is a word.
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No he says that the system works for the straight in to the side but the same line up becomes a bank if moved down table. That's called a phenomena. An event that is unexplainable with current knowledge. Regardless it works just exactly as Stan shows it.

The question is why? Stan thinks he knows, he is certainly closer to the subject and has more table time with it than any other living human I'd guess.

This is the whole basis of your beef with him isn't it?

So for that you are willing to throw out everything else? To discredit and disregard all the examples given?

Ask yourself this.....two questions......

1. if Stan didn't show the fake pocket video then what?
2. Can you duplicate the results he got on all the other videos? How much practice would you need to be able to bank 15 balls cross side one and two rails under a curtain?

For the record I am baffled by the fake pocket and I had an hour long discussion with Stan over it. There are some things about CTE that don't make sense on the surface but do in fact work as demonstrated. However it happens the perceptions as described connect to the pockets, or as Stan puts it to the right angles. Now you can say whatever you want but the proof is there. The phenomena exists. In order to use a hammer I don't need to know the physics that govern the hammer, only that someone somewhere else figured out the right balance and shape and weight for me to have a tool that works perfectly for driving nails.
 
JB Cases said:
No he says that the system works for the straight in to the side but the same line up becomes a bank if moved down table. That's called a phenomena. An event that is unexplainable with current knowledge. Regardless it works just exactly as Stan shows it.

The question is why? Stan thinks he knows, he is certainly closer to the subject and has more table time with it than any other living human I'd guess.

This is the whole basis of your beef with him isn't it?

So for that you are willing to throw out everything else? To discredit and disregard all the examples given?

Ask yourself this.....two questions......

1. if Stan didn't show the fake pocket video then what?
2. Can you duplicate the results he got on all the other videos? How much practice would you need to be able to bank 15 balls cross side one and two rails under a curtain?

For the record I am baffled by the fake pocket and I had an hour long discussion with Stan over it. There are some things about CTE that don't make sense on the surface but do in fact work as demonstrated. However it happens the perceptions as described connect to the pockets, or as Stan puts it to the right angles. Now you can say whatever you want but the proof is there. The phenomena exists. In order to use a hammer I don't need to know the physics that govern the hammer, only that someone somewhere else figured out the right balance and shape and weight for me to have a tool that works perfectly for driving nails.
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This would be one of the few things I don't agree with Stan on. Somtimes we want to believe in something so bad we fail to understand what's taking place. Sorry John ,there's know phenomena. I think if some of the things attached to pro1 were detached ,it would have a better chance .
 
8pack said:
This would be one of the few things I don't agree with Stan on. Somtimes we want to believe in something so bad we fail to understand what's taking place. Sorry John ,there's know phenomena. I think if some of the things attached to pro1 were detached ,it would have a better chance .
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A better chance at what? Do you have any idea how many people are out there learning ProOne right now?

Thousands. Stan ships DVDs every day. He has lessons booked constantly.

Sometimes you just don't know what's happening and decide that it just can't be possible. You don't know what Stan is experiencing, what I have experienced, so you can't really know where we are coming from.

Stan has absolutely put more brainpower and table time into this than anyone else has. How much time have you really spent with ProOne?

Do you have all the jigs and guides that Stan does? Have you done the curtain shots?

It isn't a matter of faith it is a matter of fact. Stan may or may not be 100% correct on the why or the math but he is 100% correct on the results.
 
JB Cases said:
A better chance at what? Do you have any idea how many people are out there learning ProOne right now?

Thousands. Stan ships DVDs every day. He has lessons booked constantly.

Sometimes you just don't know what's happening and decide that it just can't be possible. You don't know what Stan is experiencing, what I have experienced, so you can't really know where we are coming from.

Stan has absolutely put more brainpower and table time into this than anyone else has. How much time have you really spent with ProOne?

Do you have all the jigs and guides that Stan does? Have you done the curtain shots? It isn't a matter of faith it is a matter of fact. Stan may or may not be 100% correct on the why or the math but he is 100% correct on the results.
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Tell you what john ,i will do all 3 of thses videos for you.
I probably cant get the curtain shots exactly like the video because of my light and a shelf.I will try to get them as close as i can though.

Give me 10 to one odds for a 100 and 24 hours to do it.I will either tie stan or beat him.My camera and lighting arnt the best so the quality may not as be good as stans.
May also have to do it from the other side of my table do to a bad rail.My terms not yours.On my table.


ps ..any of other pro1 users want some of it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTJh05FEKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A14srrn2uEg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4KYhhzduhM
 
8pack said:
Tell you what john ,i will do all 3 of thses videos for you.
I probably cant get the curtain shots exactly like the video because of my light and a shelf.I will try to get them as close as i can though.

Give me 10 to one odds for a 100 and 24 hours to do it.I will either tie stan or beat him.My camera and lighting arnt the best so the quality may not as be good as stans.
May also have to do it from the other side of my table do to a bad rail.My terms not yours.On my table.


ps ..any of other pro1 users want some of it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTJh05FEKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A14srrn2uEg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4KYhhzduhM
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Why don't you do it to prove your point instead of for money?

I already know you are a system user so you have the tools. As well you have Stan's information to refer to.

And anyway you duplicating them would prove it can be done which is not in debate. The question is how long will it take for a feel player to do it and will they give up?

A system user should be able to do it or get close much faster. I apparently have more faith in you than you do.
 
JB maybe you could talk to Stan and see if he would offer free instruction to one student. One of the non believers in the system could send anyone they want for the free training. Hopefully a lower ranked player with poor aim. That would possibly be the only way to prove this once and for all. Not saying they should be a pro afterwards but they should improve greatly. If proven to work it would help Stans sales skyrocket.
 
How bout this.

Take a person, teach them CTE. They can only practice 1-2 hours a week.

Take a person, teach them ghost ball. They can practice 8-10 hours a week.

Who do you think will be the better player in 6 months and why?
 
duckie said:
How bout this.

Take a person, teach them CTE. They can only practice 1-2 hours a week.

Take a person, teach them ghost ball. They can practice 8-10 hours a week.

Who do you think will be the better player in 6 months and why?
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Instead let each of them practice the same amount and the same things.

In six months the CTE player will spot the ghost ball player and flat out rob him.

Just like Mohrt will rob you which is why you duck him every time he comes to your town.
 
jburkm002 said:
JB maybe you could talk to Stan and see if he would offer free instruction to one student. One of the non believers in the system could send anyone they want for the free training. Hopefully a lower ranked player with poor aim. That would possibly be the only way to prove this once and for all. Not saying they should be a pro afterwards but they should improve greatly. If proven to work it would help Stans sales skyrocket.
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Stan already did this for JoeyA. Joey wrote a long report on his experience.

Also many have reported on increased skill after learning ProOne either through the DVDs and/or in-person lessons.

Believe me taking one person and improving them won't "prove" anything to the critics. They will have all sorts of excuses, the guy has insane natural talent, Stan taught him a good pre-shot-routine, etc.....

CTE is a tool - it's simply a way to approach the shot that is precise and objective. It unlocks the aiming for direct shots and banks. It does not shoot for you. You have to pull the trigger. You also have to be diligent about practicing the visuals so that they become second nature.

CTE is not a magic pill. Although sometimes you will have shots that feel like magic when you make them it is simply because you never were able to actually aim those shots properly before. Thus you will find out that shots which were previously scary become routine.

To the onlookers who see a "tough" shot the shots you make will look incredible but to you each shot will look the same because you are using an objective key to aim with instead of blindly trying to pick the lock.

So, no more proof is needed. It's all there. Duke Laha's straight pool runs, Gerry's ghost beatings, Stan's banking and shooting, it's all there.
 
JB Cases said:
Why don't you do it to prove your point instead of for money?

I already know you are a system user so you have the tools. As well you have Stan's information to refer to.

And anyway you duplicating them would prove it can be done which is not in debate. The question is how long will it take for a feel player to do it and will they give up?

A system user should be able to do it or get close much faster. I apparently have more faith in you than you do.
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Money talks. Please don't associate anything that you do or any of you cte user,It's insulting . Many hours logged has got me where I am now. I feel cheated,but I guess I'll just have to live with it. Your one sided stance on things become disturbing . Only thing I can see that your good at is sucking people into a argument .You associate yourself with other peoples hard work and videos like you've done something,and without them you have nothing,just like your own videos prove ,nothing.
 
8pack said:
Money talks. Please don't associate anything that you do or any of you cte user,It's insulting . Many hours logged has got me where I am now. I feel cheated,but I guess I'll just have to live with it. Your one sided stance on things become disturbing . Only thing I can see that your good at is sucking people into a argument .You associate yourself with other peoples hard work and videos like you've done something,and without them you have nothing,just like your own videos prove ,nothing.
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Huh?

What do your videos actually do for anyone? The only ones you put up that are actually instructive are the clips you use from other people's videos. All the rest of you shooting just show that you can shoot with zero instructive value at all.

In contrast I have put up videos explaining how I use the method and why I think it's good. I have also demonstrated backhand english, how to use double the distance to play safe and other techniques.

You should stop now because on this forum and on youtube you have never been about helping anyone to play better. Just about bragging about how good you are. Which apparently you might be the biggest fish in your small pond. You do appear to shoot well based on your videos but who knows how that holds up under fire.

I am just a student Anthony. Not a master. This is why I refer to the videos done by those who are far more advanced than myself. If you were the master you allude to being then you would show your skills out of pride instead of money. But I think you probably can't do it with your current knowledge level. You probably know enough system aiming to pocket most direct shots but not enough to cover all banks.

I could be wrong but we won't know until you prove it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
JB Cases said:
Huh?

What do your videos actually do for anyone? The only ones you put up that are actually instructive are the clips you use from other people's videos. All the rest of you shooting just show that you can shoot with zero instructive value at all.

In contrast I have put up videos explaining how I use the method and why I think it's good. I have also demonstrated backhand english, how to use double the distance to play safe and other techniques.

You should stop now because on this forum and on youtube you have never been about helping anyone to play better. Just about bragging about how good you are. Which apparently you might be the biggest fish in your small pond. You do appear to shoot well based on your videos but who knows how that holds up under fire.

I am just a student Anthony. Not a master. This is why I refer to the videos done by those who are far more advanced than myself. If you were the master you allude to being then you would show your skills out of pride instead of money. But I think you probably can't do it with your current knowledge level. You probably know enough system aiming to pocket most direct shots but not enough to cover all banks.

I could be wrong but we won't know until you prove it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
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You wanna lie,insult and argue.The only reason you won't bet is you know you won't win and Stan's videos just won't seem as special .Yes I have tried to help on this forum. Bragging ,maybe but it's more of a release for me,you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about. My time is being wasted here,so either bet or go do what you do best.
 
8pack said:
You wanna lie,insult and argue.The only reason you won't bet is you know you won't win and Stan's videos just won't seem as special .Yes I have tried to help on this forum. Bragging ,maybe but it's more of a release for me,you wouldn't understand what I'm talking about. My time is being wasted here,so either bet or go do what you do best.
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Lie? Point out one.

Insult? You mean like calling me a liar?

Argue? You mean like debate the points I don't agree with?

You can't do it. Even though you have the keys you can't do it. I am sure of it but not enough to bet because when you realize you can't do it without Stan's keys you will most likely resort to actually studying the DVD to learn what you need to know to be able to to do it.

Anyway, go ahead and pretend it's all about money for you. If that makes you feel better then great. If I were in your position and I could duplicate Stan's videos without CTE then I would do it asap and look straight in the camera and say "see, no CTE needed, take that".

But you, an aiming system user, can't do it, and those who don't use CTE or a functionally equivalent system (don't know what that might be right now) will have a hard time doing it in my opinion. However if I were you I would be trying it just for my own satisfaction. Because IF I could not do it then I would want to know why not.
 
JB Cases said:
Lie? Point out one.

Insult? You mean like calling me a liar?

Argue? You mean like debate the points I don't agree with?

You can't do it. Even though you have the keys you can't do it. I am sure of it but not enough to bet because when you realize you can't do it without Stan's keys you will most likely resort to actually studying the DVD to learn what you need to know to be able to to do it.

Anyway, go ahead and pretend it's all about money for you. If that makes you feel better then great. If I were in your position and I could duplicate Stan's videos without CTE then I would do it asap and look straight in the camera and say "see, no CTE needed, take that".

But you, an aiming system user, can't do it, and those who don't use CTE or a functionally equivalent system (don't know what that might be right now) will have a hard time doing it in my opinion. However if I were you I would be trying it just for my own satisfaction. Because IF I could not do it then I would want to know why not.
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Everything I've said is true Johnny. Not to many things in life are free anymore.Tell you what ,how about all you cte's put your money together .This show isn't free .Yes it's about the money I could care less how it's makes you look. Your doing a good job on your own.
 
8pack said:
Everything I've said is true Johnny. Not to many things in life are free anymore.Tell you what ,how about all you cte's put your money together .This show isn't free .Yes it's about the money I could care less how it's makes you look. Your doing a good job on your own.
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It's not "true" if you don't prove it now is it? I mean you can CLAIM you can do something but until you demonstrate it then all your words don't mean much do they?

You see Stan, Gerry, Mohrt, Duke, Dave, and myself have gone to video and proved using demonstration that we can do what we say we can do. Landon and Stevie are on video demonstrating that they can also make the shots.

They give credit to the system for guiding their aim. I give credit to it, Gerry gives credit to it, we all give credit to it.

So IF you claim that you can do it without the system then simply do it. You didn't have to pay to see Stan's demonstration, or Gerry's or Mohrt's, or even mine. Just do it because you aren't good enough to be demanding payment to see you play.

However if you can't do it then demanding to be paid is a convenient excuse. If you want to be paid I already said I'd pay anyone $100 for duplicating the videos on any table. That includes you. So hop to it and get that benny.
 
JB Cases said:
It's not "true" if you don't prove it now is it? I mean you can CLAIM you can do something but until you demonstrate it then all your words don't mean much do they?

You see Stan, Gerry, Mohrt, Duke, Dave, and myself have gone to video and proved using demonstration that we can do what we say we can do. Landon and Stevie are on video demonstrating that they can also make the shots.

They give credit to the system for guiding their aim. I give credit to it, Gerry gives credit to it, we all give credit to it.

So IF you claim that you can do it without the system then simply do it. You didn't have to pay to see Stan's demonstration, or Gerry's or Mohrt's, or even mine. Just do it because you aren't good enough to be demanding payment to see you play.

However if you can't do it then demanding to be paid is a convenient excuse. If you want to be paid I already said I'd pay anyone $100 for duplicating the videos on any table. That includes you. So hop to it and get that benny.
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Here's a better deal for you ,cause I'm just a nice guy. I will do each of the 3 videos with less misses then Stan. 100 each video. Sounds like a good deal.
 
8pack said:
Here's a better deal for you ,cause I'm just a nice guy. I will do each of the 3 videos with less misses then Stan. 100 each video. Sounds like a good deal.
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That's a great deal. No reason for Barton to weasel out of that one.

Where are the clips of you playing? I'm be interested in seeing them.
 
8pack said:
Here's a better deal for you ,cause I'm just a nice guy. I will do each of the 3 videos with less misses then Stan. 100 each video. Sounds like a good deal.
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You have my terms Anthony. If you need more money then get a job.
 
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