John Schmidt BANNED from Viking Tour

mapman72 said:
After reading almost this entire thread, I have come to several conclusions that I believe are true:

1. John Schmidt is generally thought of as a good guy, a great pool player, and someone who is good for the game of pool.

Agreed

2. Mike Janis is a reputable tournament director who works very hard to promote the game and provide a great environment for pool players to compete and earn money.

Agreed

3. John Schmidt was not aware that he could withdrawl his name from the Players Auction. Though that is not a legitimate excuse, it is something to be considered.

I don't agree with this for several reasons. 1). I've played in a couple of MJ's events and he always announces that you can opt out so I don't believe JS didn't know what I do think is 2). He originally had no intention of playing golf when the tournament started so opting out wasn't considered during the player auction, the golf match was a spur of the moment kind of thing. 3). A player who considers himself to be or aspires to be a professional would play his matches in any tournament he enters for reasons that have nothing to do with a player auction. I don't think anyone can argue this.

4. Mike Janis is trying to uphold the integrity of the Viking Tour and there are times that he needs to make decisions that will be difficult for one particular player but will benefit and sustain the tour overall.

Agreed

5. Mike Janis warned John Schmidt that it would not be prudent to skip out on the match to play golf.

Agreed

6. John Schmidt contends that it is his right to not participate in a match if he decides that it is not in his best interest.

While it may be true that he can't be forced to play his matches I don't agree that this is how a "professional" should act. Lets remember, this was not an emergency situation for JS. No illness or family things that would warrant not showing for a match in a "professional" tournament.

After looking at these points and thinking about this particular situation, I think John and Mike should talk in person or on the telephone and come to a reasonable compromise. While I'm sure that Mike and others were very upset when this event occurred, some time has passed and it really is easy to see both sides of the story. I would encourage Mike and John to work this out because, as I've stated before, there are too many goofballs in this sport, and it would be a shame to have a rift between two decent, dedicated pool enthusiasts.

I couldn't agree more, they should be able to work this out between themselves.

For John:
I think it is your decision to participate or not participate in any match where you have put up your own money to enter the tournament. I think your idea to not be involved in player's auctions in the future will solve the problem mentioned in this thread. Like you said before, it's not even a good deal for a player of your caliber since you go for such a high price anyway.

For Mike:
I completely understand your feelings and the need to establish and enforce rules on your tour. In this case, I suggest that you consider the fact that John was not aware that he could opt out of the player's auction before the event. I know you feel a certain responsibility to John's buyer, but I think an explanation of the things that came out of this thread may help to alleviate his contempt. While you did warn John about not skipping his match, I'm sure John felt like he had a right to skip his match if it was in his best interest. I believe John Schmidt when he says that he was unaware that he could opt out of the players auction and I think that needs to be considered.

I think this is something that the both of you can come to some resolution on because the alternative is the Viking Tour losing a great player and someone that will draw crowds and John Schmidt losing one of the few available money earning opportunities in this country.

So, although it's not my place, I will recommend one course of action...

Mike, my understanding is that you believe that John should pay the buyer the $400. From knowing a lot of professional players, I have come to undertand that $400 is not merely $400, but entry fee and two nights motel for their next tournament. So I can understand that most pros would not want to give up $400 for what they believe is nothing in return.

My Recommendation
I am assuming that the buyer of John Schmidt probably isn't as skilled as him but could possibly be as passionate about the game. The next Viking Tour, allow John to participate and exclude himself from the players auction. John, who I'm sure wants to clear his name from this episode with AZers and the buyer, agrees to dedicate four hours over the course of the weekend to the buyer for lessons or "free play". If the buyer is not interested in the lessons or the "free play", perhaps John could autograph some memorabilia and find some sponsor (assuming he has one) to donate a cue or a case.

I think this is a reasonable compromise to this situation and I am curious if John and Mike would be open to it. Remember, there is a mutual benefit to the both of you continuing your association. Think on these things.


This is a very well thought out and written post, too bad we can't all express our opinions in this fashion.

My Recommendation:
I would think $360 from JS and $40 from MJ returned to the unforunate person who bought JS. If this had been some type of medical or family emergency then I would say the buyer would have to bite the bullet but due to the reasons for JS not playing his match(as I see them) I feel he has to be culpable. JMHO FWIW

George
 
No Money In It !

Jude Rosenstock said:
hogwash. Most players show BECAUSE there's a calcutta or side-pot. It's what makes these events worthwhile for most of them. I know the Joss Tour simply wouldn't exist if it weren't for them.

The Player Auction is the guts for a tournament , If it is a no money added tournament like some of the ones I attend there would be no money for a decent purse without it . Lets face the facts ,There is no "decent" money in pool
and we all know it, The Auction is a means unto itself , Most "pro" or road players need that money to get to the next tournament and to feed themselves and their families .They only hurt themselves and the image of the game when this kind of crap arises.

Mike Janis done what I think was right for the tour . When some one is bought and no shows that is bad for everyone involved and firm action must be taken quickly !


Ratchet - JMHO
 
Good Faith

Mapman had an excellent post. But I do not think JS should have to pay the whole $400 per se. What if JS played the whole tournament, but was just not playing his best, would he then owe the guy that bought him because he did not play his best .... no, he wouldn't or if he had been called away on a family emergency, no, he wouldn't.

If this were a divorce (from a marriage of sorts), the judge would say, okay
JS, you can not just walk out, your responsibility would be half or $200 to pay. The 4 lessons would be a 'good faith' gesture by JS to offset the $200
loss that the guy suffered. But, really the guy that bought him knew the risks going into the calcutta, and bought in 'good faith' that JS would be there at the end of the tournament. As players are in the spotlight more
(IPT driven), they will find themselves being expected more and more to behave in a 'professional manner' regarding their play and even in their private lives. This is really going to irritate the 'Hustler' in some of them.
 
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Mapman72 said:
After looking at these points and thinking about this particular situation, I think John and Mike should talk in person or on the telephone and come to a reasonable compromise. While I'm sure that Mike and others were very upset when this event occurred, some time has passed and it really is easy to see both sides of the story. I would encourage Mike and John to work this out because, as I've stated before, there are too many goofballs in this sport, and it would be a shame to have a rift between two decent, dedicated pool enthusiasts.

George said:
I couldn't agree more, they should be able to work this out between themselves.


Timberly says:
The sad part is they did this. I was standing next to John when Janis came over to him, stuck his hand out and said "no hard feelings man, I was just doing what I had to do". John shook his hand & said something to the effect of "it's cool, I understand". I don't know about you guys but to me that says "We agree to disagree" and they went about their business.

A month later Southpaw starts this thread it and it was like starting back over from day one. :rolleyes: (FTR, southpaw has 30 posts. All but 6 are in a lets bash JS thread. What does that tell ya? :rolleyes: )
 
mapman72 said:
For John:

I think it is your decision to participate or not participate in any match where you have put up your own money to enter the tournament.

John disagrees with you, as evidenced by this post of his.

john schmidt said:
again for the record i have no problem getting banned from the tour thats exactly what should happen to me or anyone else who does not show...

John impressed me with this post, admitting that his dismissal from the Viking Tour was justified. I hope other professionals will take a similar view to that stated here by John.
 
Is it just me, or is there always a nice feeling about things after sjm makes a post? I gotta give it to ya sjm, somehow, some way, you always make things just a little bit brighter in the room after reading one of your posts. You are 1 cool dude and I really do mean that!!! Peace, John.
 
Rude Dog said:
Is it just me, or is there always a nice feeling about things after sjm makes a post? I gotta give it to ya sjm, somehow, some way, you always make things just a little bit brighter in the room after reading one of your posts. You are 1 cool dude and I really do mean that!!! Peace, John.


What are you upto!!!!
:D
 
vagabond said:
What are you upto!!!!
:D
C'mon Vag, why would you think such a thing? Every once in awhile Ole Rude Dog likes to come down from his "wreak havoc on all man" mentality and give props to those, like sjm, that truly deserve it. He's cool, that's all I can say. Somebody tell me I'm wrong, I dare ya!:D Peace, John.
 
Rude Dog said:
Is it just me, or is there always a nice feeling about things after sjm makes a post? I gotta give it to ya sjm, somehow, some way, you always make things just a little bit brighter in the room after reading one of your posts. You are 1 cool dude and I really do mean that!!! Peace, John.

Thank, Rude Dog, for your very generous words.
 
Most professional players are trying to get sponsors because playing pool full time is expensive and tough. Please take a moment to consider this before posting any negative comment about any player. Especially if you are not directly involved in the incident or do not have any first hand knowledge, please think about the consequence of your post.

Thank you.



Richard
 
nipponbilliards said:
Most professional players are trying to get sponsors because playing pool full time is expensive and tough. Please take a moment to consider this before posting any negative comment about any player. Especially if you are not directly involved in the incident or do not have any first hand knowledge, please think about the consequence of your post.

Thank you.



Richard

And then there are Tours that need to get sponsors to keep them going and also to have players that don't compromise the Tour's dedication to the sport.

Barbara
 
Rude Dog said:
Is it just me, or is there always a nice feeling about things after sjm makes a post? I gotta give it to ya sjm, somehow, some way, you always make things just a little bit brighter in the room after reading one of your posts. You are 1 cool dude and I really do mean that!!! Peace, John.

Rude Dog...

No doubt, you are absolutely correct!!!
 
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MikeJanis said:
Actually, they are a huge draw and the problems are very minimal. In all 12 years of the tour it has only been an issue on 5 occasions.

I won't name names but we have banned only 5 players for various reasons.

1. 2 players for Dumping
1 of them is on a lifetime ban and the other payed his fine and currently plays on the tour. It wasn't an all out dump for profit but more of an I'll show you type of thing.
2. 3 players for the same reason as JS. Out of these 3 players all but 1 has paid the set fine and to this day continue to play on the V-Tour.

If anyone remembers, the tour in it's beginning only had $13,000 added in total for each year and only 6 sponsors. Because we listened to the players, spectators, room owners and sponsors we now add about $93,000 per tour year to our events and have 36 sponsors.

I don't plan on making any changes except to continue looking for more sponsors and getting more monies added to the events.
Mj

Hey Mike,
All I can Say is KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
The Viking Tour Is GREAT!!!

"Have a nice day",
Lamar
 
macguy said:
Very simple solution, all players insist their names not be in the calcutta. Why should they let themselves be prostituted by gamblers and Mr. Janis for nothing, and on top of that they could be penalized, screw that, they came, paid their entry to play pool for themselves and no one else plain and simple. Do they have an obligation to the spectators and fans, yes to a degree but not to the degree Mr. Janis seems to think. They are not a bunch of whores of monkeys for his amusement and profit.
By the way, I hope Mr Janis at least gave the guy back his 10% ($40.00) or does he want to keep that as well and have John have to also pay him?
Screw the calcuttas, the players can stop this themselves real quick and stop their ass's from being sold like a bunch of whores. That is my opinion and I hope they take it.

Hey macguy,
It appears to me, from your posts, you may be from the NORTH EAST, You are young & un-knowing!!!

"Unless You can improve on the Silence, do not open your mouth",
Lamar
 
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MikeJanis said:
Actually, the downside of not having player auctions or calcutta's is less players at events, less spectators at events and ultimately less events.

On the V-Tour if you don't want to be involved then you need to remove yourself from the auction list. It's that simple. No ands, if's or butt's.

Mj
Mike,
If one decides not to bid the $10 opening bid on themselves you normally put them in the field. If they are in the field will they be responsible for not showing up for a match? If not how will that work if you put top players in the field and the field brings big $$? Or will you just keep them out totally from the auction.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
lamar25 said:
Hey macguy,
It appears to me, from your posts, you may be from the NORTH EAST, You are young & un-knowing!!!

"Unless You can improve on the Silance, do not open your mouth",
Lamar
Please don't call someone young & un-knowing when you can't even spell S-I-L-E-N-C-E correctly.
 
Then there was the pro who failed to show up because he was winning at on-line poker.

Seems to me someone bet on a horse. The horse did not win and now he is crying about it.

Easy solution. This happens all the time. If you don't like it don't bet on horses. Find another game to throw away your money.

Jake
 
cueman said:
Mike,
If one decides not to bid the $10 opening bid on themselves you normally put them in the field. If they are in the field will they be responsible for not showing up for a match? If not how will that work if you put top players in the field and the field brings big $$? Or will you just keep them out totally from the auction.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

Chris, when you take your name out of the Auction and you go into the field, you as a player are relieved from any and all responsibilities that are attributed to the Auction. At this point it does become buyer beware.

Mj
 
How does a player get put in the field when they are supposed to take you out? Technically if you get put into the field aren't you still in the calcutta, therefore open to people bidding on you and perhaps buying you?

To me removing yourself from the auction includes the field too, maybe I am crazy for thinking that.
 
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