johnny archer
- Thread starter kwilson
- Start date
kwilson said:
Hey kwilson, you're in luck. I was just hitting the buttons when I read your post and I could'nt help but post a reply to your query.
Here's what happened...
We were watching Django/Archer match and everybody was noticing that Archer was really getting slow as molasses before making a shot. It got to a point that most guys were counting how many times he will hesitate and get up before actually firing the shot. He was evidently nervous and scared because Django was shooting well and ahead on the score.
My friend who was an older white gentleman made a comment on Bustamante's shot on the eight ball before he got on the hill. The eight jawed a little bit before dropping; he had to throw the shot a little bit to get a nice shape on the nine, that's why he had to cheat the pocket.
We didn't think that he said it out loud because there were a lot of people talking and Earl was ranting on the next table. Well, long story short, after he got beaten, Archer turned around and pointed his cue at me and said "Why don't you just shut up?"
I was surprised and annoyed and I retorted that I wasn't gonna shut up and said you better put your stick away before somebody got hurt. He walked over to us in a belligerent manner, thinking that I was alone, but my friend said in a loud authoritative voice,"I was the one who said it!! You got a problem with that? You were just sitting when I said it, and we like Bustamante. I paid my $10 entry fee and I will say whatever I want to say!!"
Long story short, Archer decided to leave us but he was mouthing off as he was walking away, and he said something racial, and a black friend of mine took offense and that's when it really hit the fan. My black friend was hopping mad and had to be restrained, while Archer's friends hustled him away.
I mentioned this to Bustamante when I saw him outside, and he said that he's not surprised about Archer. Archer is a sore loser!!!
kwilson
Banned
wow!! i knew something was going on i thought someone's cell phone kept ringing. thanks!! thats what earl was saying something about. yeah archer is a little thin to be running that lip to anyone.i have seen archer play for many years and i have never seen him act like that.o well i guess it gets everyone every now and then. thanks again.mel said:
thoughts ...
I have never seen a great player that was a good loser, have you?
They may not show it on the outside, but it is eating away at them
on the inside ... Get used to losing, and that's all you will be, is a
loser ...
On the flip side, players put up with many things in playing matches.
They have been in situations where 'friends' of their opponents are
drawn in to 'woof', create disturbances, and generally take the player's
attention off his game while playing. It is a form of sharking. Even
though, this may not have been one of those times, it can still get
on a player's nerves, especially when involved in a super tough match.
People on the sidelines will also do this when they have sidebets on
the opponent of the player, and it is still sharking.
A personal example would be a woman that is a friend, a Native American,
that is a good player, and she is gay. She usually has her 'girlfriend' at
the matches she is playing in tournaments. We had to play each other
in a handicapped tournament match, I was going to 9, she had to go to
6 in 8 ball. 3 game differential in handicap was a stretch for me, but I
ended up beating her, but all during the match, when I was shooting,
she and her girlfriend were talking loudly, giggling, kissing, and making
obvious sounds to try to shark me, so I would miss a critical shot or two.
I finally said something about 3/4 of the way through the match, asked
if her girlfrined could be quiet while I was shooting. Of course, they acted
like they didn't know what I was talking about, but they knew exactly
what I was referring to. Anyway, after I sank the final 8 ball, this woman
player threw a couple dollars worth of quarters toward me that hit the
wall behind me, and she also threw another woman's cue that she had
borrowed to play with, onto the floor, and was cussing and just being
spiteful in general.
Having played almost 44 years, in tournaments and many money match
ups, I have been exposed to the many many forms of sharking, and game
playing by opponents and friends of the opponents. Coincidences are
far and few between, and most of the time, it is a best made plan
of Mice and Men.
I have never seen a great player that was a good loser, have you?
They may not show it on the outside, but it is eating away at them
on the inside ... Get used to losing, and that's all you will be, is a
loser ...
On the flip side, players put up with many things in playing matches.
They have been in situations where 'friends' of their opponents are
drawn in to 'woof', create disturbances, and generally take the player's
attention off his game while playing. It is a form of sharking. Even
though, this may not have been one of those times, it can still get
on a player's nerves, especially when involved in a super tough match.
People on the sidelines will also do this when they have sidebets on
the opponent of the player, and it is still sharking.
A personal example would be a woman that is a friend, a Native American,
that is a good player, and she is gay. She usually has her 'girlfriend' at
the matches she is playing in tournaments. We had to play each other
in a handicapped tournament match, I was going to 9, she had to go to
6 in 8 ball. 3 game differential in handicap was a stretch for me, but I
ended up beating her, but all during the match, when I was shooting,
she and her girlfriend were talking loudly, giggling, kissing, and making
obvious sounds to try to shark me, so I would miss a critical shot or two.
I finally said something about 3/4 of the way through the match, asked
if her girlfrined could be quiet while I was shooting. Of course, they acted
like they didn't know what I was talking about, but they knew exactly
what I was referring to. Anyway, after I sank the final 8 ball, this woman
player threw a couple dollars worth of quarters toward me that hit the
wall behind me, and she also threw another woman's cue that she had
borrowed to play with, onto the floor, and was cussing and just being
spiteful in general.
Having played almost 44 years, in tournaments and many money match
ups, I have been exposed to the many many forms of sharking, and game
playing by opponents and friends of the opponents. Coincidences are
far and few between, and most of the time, it is a best made plan
of Mice and Men.
man..i really hope there is some misunderstanding here..if Archer made some racial remarks, it's really sad and uncalled for...
If he felt he was sharked or distracted, or just venting frustration, with a little aggression, that might still be forgivable, but definitely not racism. Archer has been a great role-model for the Americans, even overseas.
But I guess, everyone loses it at some stage, plus dont forget the fact that it is at the crucial phase in his life, the US Open, against a legend, important match, probably stress from the "outside world", with family commitments, and a baby at home....
Marriage life, with babies (as much as a glorious gift they are), can cause one to crack, and get paranoid over seemingly small matters!
No wonder i saw him drowning some beer, looking angry at the world! Now my favorite American is Morris!
If he felt he was sharked or distracted, or just venting frustration, with a little aggression, that might still be forgivable, but definitely not racism. Archer has been a great role-model for the Americans, even overseas.
But I guess, everyone loses it at some stage, plus dont forget the fact that it is at the crucial phase in his life, the US Open, against a legend, important match, probably stress from the "outside world", with family commitments, and a baby at home....
Marriage life, with babies (as much as a glorious gift they are), can cause one to crack, and get paranoid over seemingly small matters!
No wonder i saw him drowning some beer, looking angry at the world! Now my favorite American is Morris!
You aren't that naive, are you?
Yes, I am well aware of what being a 'good sport' consists
of, but I am saying even the best of sports is not without
sin of not losing his temper, or having something strike him
wrong at sometime, and reacting, perhaps, in an
uncharisteristic harse manner at sometime.
Gee, a racial slur, heaven forbid, like it is a mortal sin, when
people of the same race refer to other members of the same
race with those terms all the time, even viewed as a term
of endearment or jive. What, it is okay for some, but not
others ... I call that a double standard. You laugh when one
person does it, but it is a cause for a war if someone else does
it .... That's bullshit ... It is either right or wrong ... period.
Are you oblivious to the fact that slurs of any kind are related
to acts of behavior more than anything else. You know, if the
person that made the first comment in the first place had been
a considerate individual, he would have made his comment in a lower
tone where the players involved in a professional match would not
have heard it or been disturbed by it. It is called 'good manners'
and 'respect'. No matter what you think, all professionals will not
put up with ill manners, disrespect, drunks, obnoxious people, and
annoying spectator personalities all the time. Do you just smile
and walk away from all the assholes that bother you in life? No,
I really doubt that you do ... and neither do I, because we are all
human, whether we are a professional or not, we all find a way to
tell someone they are being an asshole on occasion....
Being a certain race or color has nothing to do with being an asshole,
and yes, I have friends of many races, but they are nice people,
and if they are being an asshole, I tell them about it.
Yes, I am well aware of what being a 'good sport' consists
of, but I am saying even the best of sports is not without
sin of not losing his temper, or having something strike him
wrong at sometime, and reacting, perhaps, in an
uncharisteristic harse manner at sometime.
Gee, a racial slur, heaven forbid, like it is a mortal sin, when
people of the same race refer to other members of the same
race with those terms all the time, even viewed as a term
of endearment or jive. What, it is okay for some, but not
others ... I call that a double standard. You laugh when one
person does it, but it is a cause for a war if someone else does
it .... That's bullshit ... It is either right or wrong ... period.
Are you oblivious to the fact that slurs of any kind are related
to acts of behavior more than anything else. You know, if the
person that made the first comment in the first place had been
a considerate individual, he would have made his comment in a lower
tone where the players involved in a professional match would not
have heard it or been disturbed by it. It is called 'good manners'
and 'respect'. No matter what you think, all professionals will not
put up with ill manners, disrespect, drunks, obnoxious people, and
annoying spectator personalities all the time. Do you just smile
and walk away from all the assholes that bother you in life? No,
I really doubt that you do ... and neither do I, because we are all
human, whether we are a professional or not, we all find a way to
tell someone they are being an asshole on occasion....
Being a certain race or color has nothing to do with being an asshole,
and yes, I have friends of many races, but they are nice people,
and if they are being an asshole, I tell them about it.
"naive"?...because I feel strongly about racist remarks?
Apparently, the black guy took offence...and thus..the commotion, and thus, people on the internet mentioning it.
Well, you are what you are. To each his own. You dont have to be too upset about my post. Geez!
Apparently, the black guy took offence...and thus..the commotion, and thus, people on the internet mentioning it.
Well, you are what you are. To each his own. You dont have to be too upset about my post. Geez!
I would like to add that being a "public figure" adored by fans around the world, of different races & cultures, a Pro like Archer should not have burst out the racial comments, especially after losing the match. (Not even if he had won it)
He is in a different light from the opposition, who might just be there to drink and have a good time watching pool and some betting. Archer is under sponsorship, in the limelights, and almost an ambassador for US pool circuit.
My views on this may seem "naive" to scott 'the shot', but as much as I respect older individuals, age doesnt necesarily make one right in points of views. They are exactly what they are... "points of views". I'm glad i stand strongly on this point still, as with the amount of travel i make across the globe, if I were to "lose it" everytime someone is rude to me, I wouldn't be still alive now!
Again, assuming this story is true. My guess is if indeed if it were, Archer would have cooled down and feel bad and sorry about the whole thing.
P.S. I don't post too often,although being a member since 2003..once I do, I get labeled immediately! Its kinda sad.
He is in a different light from the opposition, who might just be there to drink and have a good time watching pool and some betting. Archer is under sponsorship, in the limelights, and almost an ambassador for US pool circuit.
My views on this may seem "naive" to scott 'the shot', but as much as I respect older individuals, age doesnt necesarily make one right in points of views. They are exactly what they are... "points of views". I'm glad i stand strongly on this point still, as with the amount of travel i make across the globe, if I were to "lose it" everytime someone is rude to me, I wouldn't be still alive now!
Again, assuming this story is true. My guess is if indeed if it were, Archer would have cooled down and feel bad and sorry about the whole thing.
P.S. I don't post too often,although being a member since 2003..once I do, I get labeled immediately! Its kinda sad.
T
Timberly
Guest
My .02.... When has anyone here ever heard of such a story about Johnny? He IS an ambassador and has been. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I thought I would remind you guys that you're going on hearsay from someone "mature enough" to respond like...daddypool said:
mel said:
This is the kind of guy that wants to fight after you've apologized for when you're accidentally pushed into him at a bar because the place is crowded and someone bumped you into him. Having gone to quite a few tournaments of late, it's sad to say that people have either forgotten, or never paid enough attention to learn pool etiquette. Disrespect of the players (world champions or not) and sharking in general from the stands have become the norm.
and so ...
Tap ... Tap ... Tap ... Timberly ... Maybe something rare like that did happen to Johnny, but he is human, and in turn, professional or not, do not think that
he needs to be crucified for it. He is a great player, a champion, and a good ambassador for Pool. So what, even so, it is an extremely rare thing for him,
not the normal behavior. He had a bad day, give the guy a break. The fans started it by being rude to begin with.
I doubt that they are MAKING A LIVING from shooting Pool. I would be upset too if someone undermined me making a living, wouldn't you? And spectators can be so thoughtless and rude sometimes, so inconsiderate of the players that are under the gun to perform.
Timberly said:My .02.... When has anyone here ever heard of such a story about Johnny? He IS an ambassador and has been. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I thought I would remind you guys that you're going on hearsay from someone "mature enough" to respond like...
Having gone to quite a few tournaments of late, it's sad to say that people have either forgotten, or never paid enough attention to learn pool etiquette. Disrespect of the players (world champions or not) and sharking in general from the stands have become the norm.
Tap ... Tap ... Tap ... Timberly ... Maybe something rare like that did happen to Johnny, but he is human, and in turn, professional or not, do not think that
he needs to be crucified for it. He is a great player, a champion, and a good ambassador for Pool. So what, even so, it is an extremely rare thing for him,
not the normal behavior. He had a bad day, give the guy a break. The fans started it by being rude to begin with.
I doubt that they are MAKING A LIVING from shooting Pool. I would be upset too if someone undermined me making a living, wouldn't you? And spectators can be so thoughtless and rude sometimes, so inconsiderate of the players that are under the gun to perform.
Nobody was rude to Johnny
On the contrary, Johnny was the only one rude in this instance. The only out loud talking took place immediately after Django had sunk a particular shot, which only could have wiggled its way into the pocket due to the extraordinary stroke he put on that shot. I was the spectator who clapped and said, "Nice shot!" Johnny wasn't even shooting. We were standing a good twelve feet or more from where Johnny sat, and the only other words spoken in our area during the match were barely audible even up close. I'm sure that under pressure a player might hear hushed murmurs from the crowd and imagine all kinds of things being said, but there was no way he could have actually heard what was whispered in this crowd so far away. He appeared to be extremely anxious during the match and it is not uncommon for a player to want to blame his performance on some distraction; however, during his turns at the table he never once turned to the crowd to show displeasure at being distracted. I personally believe that he was upset at the support for Django, which took place when he (Johnny) wasn't even shooting. When he finally did turn and address the crowd, the match was over and he fixed his comments on my friend, a Filipino gentleman, who had never said anything out loud during the entire match. I told Johnny that it was I who had said, "Nice shot!" I told him that I had paid my ten dollars and I had a right to clap for and support whoever I wanted. I am a fan of Bustamonte, although I have been known to bet against him on occasion. I am for POOL and excellence in pool, and don't give a d___ whether the player is American, Filipino, black, white or green. When he left he said suggested that I should go over there and live with "them." A black fellow behind me took offense at this remark.
Snapshot9 said:
On the contrary, Johnny was the only one rude in this instance. The only out loud talking took place immediately after Django had sunk a particular shot, which only could have wiggled its way into the pocket due to the extraordinary stroke he put on that shot. I was the spectator who clapped and said, "Nice shot!" Johnny wasn't even shooting. We were standing a good twelve feet or more from where Johnny sat, and the only other words spoken in our area during the match were barely audible even up close. I'm sure that under pressure a player might hear hushed murmurs from the crowd and imagine all kinds of things being said, but there was no way he could have actually heard what was whispered in this crowd so far away. He appeared to be extremely anxious during the match and it is not uncommon for a player to want to blame his performance on some distraction; however, during his turns at the table he never once turned to the crowd to show displeasure at being distracted. I personally believe that he was upset at the support for Django, which took place when he (Johnny) wasn't even shooting. When he finally did turn and address the crowd, the match was over and he fixed his comments on my friend, a Filipino gentleman, who had never said anything out loud during the entire match. I told Johnny that it was I who had said, "Nice shot!" I told him that I had paid my ten dollars and I had a right to clap for and support whoever I wanted. I am a fan of Bustamonte, although I have been known to bet against him on occasion. I am for POOL and excellence in pool, and don't give a d___ whether the player is American, Filipino, black, white or green. When he left he said suggested that I should go over there and live with "them." A black fellow behind me took offense at this remark.
Lupo said:
At the U.S. Open this year, I was watching my counterpart Keith McCready playing Young Gun Sylver from Texas in a winners' side match. Keith was ahead of him 2 games for most of the match, but it was an excruciating one to watch for me as a railbird. Sylver being an excellent one-pocket player kept playing safety after safety after safety, and it was tough for Keith to get any rhythm going.
The spectators were cheering and clapping for BOTH players during this match. I'm setting about four rows up on the side next to Veteran Don Steele and his wife in the gallery. They were rooting for Keith, as was I. During the battle, Sylver committed a foul which gave Keith ball in hand. As Keith advanced to the table to pick up the cue-ball and place it in front of the next shot, I yelled out, "Go get 'em, Keith!," along with the rest of the crowd. Keith stopped dead in his tracks and turned to ME in the audience and said, "What did you say?" I turned about 10 shades of red and was totally embarassed. I wasn't the only one cheering. Yet, he singled my voice out of the crowd.
One time I saw Buddy Hall competing at Glass City Open, and as he was studying his next shot, he walked around the table, looking at it from all angles. He then got ready to pull the trigger. A VIP railbird who was sitting adjacent to the playing area stretched his legs, and his feet came out from underneath the table which happened to be in the pit. Buddy then stood upright and took his cue and pointed it at the guy's feet, who promptly pulled them back in, out of Buddy's peripheral vision. No words were every spoken.
Johnny Archer is a very focused player with a strong will to win. I haven't seen him act untoward to fans in my travels. He never hesitates to sign autographs or have his picture taken. A man of strong faith, he has a high regard for family values and is thought of by his peers as a player with integrity. He is an asset to the game/sport. Everybody does have a bad day at the office, so to speak. I guess Johnny Archer is human, too.
JAM
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TAFKaENIGMA
Registered
Racial Prejudice....
The company that sponsors him should fire him.
What a piece of junk. Bad day or not. You always mean what you say. You just don't always allow yourself to say it, even though it's how you feel.
He opened his mouth, and now his position is in the public eye.
He should check his tongue before he opens his mouth again.
This type of situation can get very ugly if he's not going to worry about what he says in the future.
The company that sponsors him should fire him.
What a piece of junk. Bad day or not. You always mean what you say. You just don't always allow yourself to say it, even though it's how you feel.
He opened his mouth, and now his position is in the public eye.
He should check his tongue before he opens his mouth again.
This type of situation can get very ugly if he's not going to worry about what he says in the future.
Easy there buddy. The problem with people today is that we generalize the character and integrity of a person from one single instance. Everyone, just give Johnny a break. I'm sure he regrets what he said...let's not lynch him because of one slip. And besides, we only heard one side of the story...anyone want to hear his side before making such rash judgments? Let's not blow this situation out of proportion. Johnny is still an excellent pool player and a fine gentlemen to me, and I'm not going to crucify Johnny for one instance where he may have slipped.TAFKaENIGMA said:
Word about threads here seems to travel pretty fast. I got a call from Johnny over the weekend and he wanted to make sure his side of story was also out there.
Johnny said a Filipino fan had been heckling him the entire match. When Johnny asked him to stop talking, the response was "I paid my money, I can say whatever I want". (Johnny feels this comment in itself is admission that multiple things were being said)
After the match was over Johnny did make a comment that maybe the guy should go sit with a different group of people. Then someone else jumped into the converation and accused Johnny of making a racist remark.
Johnny said the comment was the farthest thing from racist. He was simply saying that if the guy was a fan of the other player, then maybe he should go sit with the other players fans.
Mike
Johnny said a Filipino fan had been heckling him the entire match. When Johnny asked him to stop talking, the response was "I paid my money, I can say whatever I want". (Johnny feels this comment in itself is admission that multiple things were being said)
After the match was over Johnny did make a comment that maybe the guy should go sit with a different group of people. Then someone else jumped into the converation and accused Johnny of making a racist remark.
Johnny said the comment was the farthest thing from racist. He was simply saying that if the guy was a fan of the other player, then maybe he should go sit with the other players fans.
Mike
jsp said:
Lupo said:
Thanks, Lupo, for the statement.
Folks, that is what happened and nothing else. We did not mean any harm or malice toward what's-his-face at all. As a matter of fact, Earl was ranting and raving next table to them and he did not say a word to him at all. Hmm, I wonder why.
But enough of this incident. These things happen and it will happen again in the future. I guess that this is just a matter of misunderstanding and poor choice of words . Now to those people who like to stoke the fire of controversy, I got something for you, "Give it a rest!!!" We already explained what happened and that's all there is to it.
C'mon poeple- do we really need a witch hunt. Perhaps the whole thing is a misunderstanding, without actually being there we can only go along with views and gossip. As Jam has stated it probably a bad day in the office and if "something" was said it could have been a spur of the moment. Admittingly this does not excuse racist remarks but understanding from the players point of view does make a big difference. Personally being from a asian background i have had my fair share of experiences on these kind of remarks on and off the table, so it does take time to take everything with a pinch of salt.
Perhaps this explains why Earl goes bananas at times because of the level of intensity he puts in his game and it doesn't leave very much for anything else espeically if he has to deal with crowd as well. Imo he could face defeat with a bit more dignity particularly from such a great player of his calibre. (man i wish there was some way i could see that on/off table events on ranting and raving a
)
I have certainly seen incidents in the past were the crowds were just as much to blame as the players (not saying that this applies on this particular instance). So in my book i will give Johnny the benefit of doubt.
Just my 2 cents.
Kyo
Perhaps this explains why Earl goes bananas at times because of the level of intensity he puts in his game and it doesn't leave very much for anything else espeically if he has to deal with crowd as well. Imo he could face defeat with a bit more dignity particularly from such a great player of his calibre. (man i wish there was some way i could see that on/off table events on ranting and raving a
)I have certainly seen incidents in the past were the crowds were just as much to blame as the players (not saying that this applies on this particular instance). So in my book i will give Johnny the benefit of doubt.
Just my 2 cents.
Kyo
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NYC cue dude
Banned
I am both a big fan and friend of Johnny's.
I know him very well and my experiences lead me to believe that he has earned, through performance and actions, an unspoken ambassordorship to the world, representing US and it's pool playing contingency.
He has consitently interacted overseas with All diversities of people, from poor fans to the dignitaries of foreign countries alike, with great dignity and human respect.
Johnny Archer is not only revered world wide by fans, he also is highly respected by his peers. This is important to note, that although Johnny is in the trenches everyday playing a DIVERSE field of opponents in a kill or be killed atmosphere, (and having been UNBELEIVABLY SUCCESSFUL FOR DECADES) each trying to deprive another from "making a living" (a byproduct of winning and losing), he is still well liked by all the players. (Admittedly, no one person can be loved by all).
Johnny to date has never been accused of being racist. Why is that? I figure, 20 years in the sport, if he was a racist there would be some "history".
This leads me to believe that this unfortunate incident was specific to the heckling, and subsequent confrontation. Johnny is human and he has been known in the past to voice his displeasure at disruptive fans, but not directed at any specific minorities (I have witnessed him recently tell an older white rich man to shut up) It was warranted.
Why was Johnny chosen as the unofficial player liason between Kevin Trudeau and the pool playing community as a whole? Perhaps because of the mutual respect between himself and his peers.
This is a non event, in my book.
Randy
I know him very well and my experiences lead me to believe that he has earned, through performance and actions, an unspoken ambassordorship to the world, representing US and it's pool playing contingency.
He has consitently interacted overseas with All diversities of people, from poor fans to the dignitaries of foreign countries alike, with great dignity and human respect.
Johnny Archer is not only revered world wide by fans, he also is highly respected by his peers. This is important to note, that although Johnny is in the trenches everyday playing a DIVERSE field of opponents in a kill or be killed atmosphere, (and having been UNBELEIVABLY SUCCESSFUL FOR DECADES) each trying to deprive another from "making a living" (a byproduct of winning and losing), he is still well liked by all the players. (Admittedly, no one person can be loved by all).
Johnny to date has never been accused of being racist. Why is that? I figure, 20 years in the sport, if he was a racist there would be some "history".
This leads me to believe that this unfortunate incident was specific to the heckling, and subsequent confrontation. Johnny is human and he has been known in the past to voice his displeasure at disruptive fans, but not directed at any specific minorities (I have witnessed him recently tell an older white rich man to shut up) It was warranted.
Why was Johnny chosen as the unofficial player liason between Kevin Trudeau and the pool playing community as a whole? Perhaps because of the mutual respect between himself and his peers.
This is a non event, in my book.
Randy