Johnston City Tournaments... Fast Forward 36 years..

Billiard Architect

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Back in the day when the JCT's were going on the tournaments started out as an all around hustlers tournament. Later as they started to get publicity a lot of the recognized players started to play in them. They took over the tournament and ruled the top spots. Names like Lasiter and Briet.

Lets say the Johnston City Tournaments started again today. Do you think that Hustlers would have a chance against the recognized players or would they kill them?

If so who would you put up in calcutta?

My vote would be for 1 hole-Frost, 9 ball-Robb Saez, 14.1-Harriman.
 
Johnny "V" said:
Back in the day when the JCT's were going on the tournaments started out as an all around hustlers tournament. Later as they started to get publicity a lot of the recognized players started to play in them. They took over the tournament and ruled the top spots. Names like Lasiter and Briet.

Lets say the Johnston City Tournaments started again today. Do you think that Hustlers would have a chance against the recognized players or would they kill them?

If so who would you put up in calcutta?

My vote would be for 1 hole-Frost, 9 ball-Robb Saez, 14.1-Harriman.

Have you heard of Derby city?
 
Yes I have and are they the same as the JCT? I would think that DCC is a bit more comercialized, getting added money, advertising, etc.

I have not had the pleasure of going to DCC but someday i plan on it.
 
Johnny "V" said:
Yes I have and are they the same as the JCT? I would think that DCC is a bit more comercialized, getting added money, advertising, etc.

I have not had the pleasure of going to DCC but someday i plan on it.

Every player or gambler should make it a point to go at least once.
Havent been there since 2002 cause of work, hopefully can make it this year 2009.
 
Johnny "V" said:
Yes I have and are they the same as the JCT? I would think that DCC is a bit more comercialized, getting added money, advertising, etc.

I have not had the pleasure of going to DCC but someday i plan on it.
Go to the DCC John. And then you'll realize that your question has been answered over and over for the past 10+ years now. The DCC was specifically started as a rebirth of the Johnson City Hustler's Jamboree. And Greg Sullivan has succeeded.

That's why it's such a great topic of discussion every year. That's why there's a Louie Roberts Action & Entertainment Award. That's why each tournament discipline has over 400 players in it. Most are unknown road players as well as every day players.

We've also seen where the "gamblers" have done really well at the tournaments, depending on the discipline (like banks), and where the tournament players do really well at other disciplines. And where Efren Reyes cleans up at any discipline he sets out to clean up.

It's hard to believe that you're actually asking the question. So much has happened based on the "gambler vs. tournament player" since the DCC has been around.

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
Go to the DCC John. And then you'll realize that your question has been answered over and over for the past 10+ years now. The DCC was specifically started as a rebirth of the Johnson City Hustler's Jamboree. And Greg Sullivan has succeeded.

That's why it's such a great topic of discussion every year. That's why there's a Louie Roberts Action & Entertainment Award. That's why each tournament discipline has over 400 players in it. Most are unknown road players as well as every day players.

We've also seen where the "gamblers" have done really well at the tournaments, depending on the discipline (like banks), and where the tournament players do really well at other disciplines. And where Efren Reyes cleans up at any discipline he sets out to clean up.

It's hard to believe that you're actually asking the question. So much has happened based on the "gambler vs. tournament player" since the DCC has been around.

Fred
Sorry fred never put the 2 together... And it has been a long week. (with the rains and all) I had leg cramping the last 100 meters and had to pull up. I wanted to push it there at the end but couldn't go into that final gear.

Please leave this post up to show my stupidity and inability to attend tournament further than 50 miles from my house.
 
Johnny "V" said:
Sorry fred never put the 2 together... And it has been a long week. (with the rains and all) I had leg cramping the last 100 meters and had to pull up. I wanted to push it there at the end but couldn't go into that final gear.
I hope you and yours are safe down there.

Please leave this post up to show my stupidity and inability to attend tournament further than 50 miles from my house.
Oh, John, I'm talking about how every year between December and March, every pool-related board on the internet from the RSB days, to the CCBoard, Ed Mercier's Playpool, and Mike Howerton's Arizona Billiards (now AZBilliards), the discussions are dominated by Derby City Classic talk. You don't have to travel to it to know much about it, as much as it's discussed every year.

Fred
 
Johnny "V" said:
If so who would you put up in calcutta?

My vote would be for 1 hole-Frost, 9 ball-Robb Saez, 14.1-Harriman.
Someone correct me, but I don't think Scotty has place tremendously high at the Derby City. Any of the gamblers who put more time into gambling have a tough road. Even the great Shane Van Boening really hasn't fared well at the tournaments (like you would expect himt to) since he is too busy with marathon gambling sessions to be in tip top shape for tournament play.

There's no 14.1 tournament per s?, but there's a high run challenge with a mini-tourney at the end of it.

Pretty much, 9-ball is won by a tournament veteran. Banks is split between known champions (Harriman, VArner, Daultaon, Matlock, Stevie Moore) and bank specialists (Larry Price, Jason Miller, etc.). One pocket is won by Efren.

The gambling arena is a whole different thing.

Fred
 
Fred you know that I dont get to post as much as I did back as sscs. In turn I don't get to read as much either...

Family made it through ok. Didn't lose anything. THX 4 askin. I will say that I thought I was going to see noah go floating by sometime around thurs.

I have never been thru something like that. I think I heard them say 25 inches of rain in 3 days. 3 DAYS!
 
there will be a JC type gig comming up soon, real soon. Greg Sullivan is aware of it-its not to compete with any existing event. More to come later...
 
Fatboy said:
there will be a JC type gig comming up soon, real soon. Greg Sullivan is aware of it-its not to compete with any existing event. More to come later...

I'm holding me breath until you tell us-my death is on you if you don't hurry.:D
 
jasonlaus said:
I'm holding me breath until you tell us-my death is on you if you don't hurry.:D


i have the right spot in Vegas-I own it. Sooooo What I have to do is finish construction-around Dec 1 a year late.....but were close perrhaps sooner.

then I have to figure out what I'm gonna do. 6 tables, lots of players, action, etc. Were working on markting it, sisnce the space is free I have alot of lattitude to do what I like, more too come in the next month or two. But something is brewing up. I'm getting commitments from $$$ guys, players slowly. It will be big or it wont happen, all due respect to Allen Hopkins and his effort I will have more than 12 people, I will never be the player, hall of fame, monster guy that he is to pool, I cant praise him enough-but what I'm gonna do WILL be bigger and better, because I dont have to pay rent for a space, make a penny from it, and still have some $$ to just blow on it. Its gonna be a loser for me unless I win enough at the gig to cover my losses. I cant wi anything if no one is here so i'[m gonna be sure the big $$$ are all here-then bust them. There will be pleanty of armed guards there too so no bull shit will go down(they have all worked for me for years) there will also be safe deposit boxes too. no reason not to bring as much cash as you can stand.

it will be strong, real strong.
 
Last edited:
Cornerman said:
Someone correct me, but I don't think Scotty has place tremendously high at the Derby City.
Fred


I think you are right Fred-I dont think he has finished high yet in 1P. Also i dont think i ever saw him when he looked well rested, ever!
 
For Johnny "V"
Greg/Diamond said:
http://www.inside-edge-mag.co.uk/othersports/features/43/the_life_derby_cit

The Life: Derby City Pool Classic
By Justyn Barnes July 2005


Named after the famous horse race, the Derby City Classic pool tournament in Louisville, Kentucky, offers round-the-clock gambling action. Justyn Barnes drank a lot of coffee and tried to keep up...

Modern sporting events are so sanitised. You never see the world's top golfers play an after-hours cash game worth more than the tournament's first prize, or a player on centre court at Wimbledon strike a wager with a spectator during a match. Cue Louisville, Kentucky's annual Derby City Classic - the biggest pool tournament (in terms of gambling action) in the world. For raw, down and dirty, win-or-go-hungry, 24/7, sleep-and- you'll-miss-something action, it's unmatched.

Apparently 39.3 million Americans play pool at least once a year (9.6 million of them 25 days or more). But, while this puts the sport on a par with basketball in terms of participation, unlike b-ball, pool's shady reputation as a game for hustlers means the men's professional game actually gets minimal television coverage in the US.

Indeed, unlike Britain where the nearest most people get to playing 'money pool' is a game of winner-stays-on at the pub, gambling is ingrained in the culture of pool halls across America. If you're not playing, you can be a 'stakehorse' (backer) for a player or a 'railbird' keeping an eye on all the games in the hall, offering odds and making side bets.

The Derby City Classic embraces this gritty reality with gusto. The nine-day DCC extravaganza attracts hundreds of top pool pros from the US, Europe and the Far East plus a motley array of railbirds, high-rollers, pimps, hustlers, whores, stakehorses, card sharps and druggies.

Within a day of arriving, I learn that the tournies at the DCC are for most players just a distraction from the real business of trying to make a big score. The second thing I learn is you've got to stay awake - every minute of every day there are opportunities to win (and lose) thousands of dollars on and off the table.

For instance, I meet a guy soon after he'd been hustled out of $3,500 by a crew of Chicago card sharps. I see two men settle a minor dispute by tossing a coin for $500. As an impromptu notice pinned up at a previous DCC declared, the primary rule is: 'No no gambling allowed'.

There are specially appointed 'action rooms', most notably a six-table set-up next door to the hotel bar with ample seating for railbirds and players to sit, observe and wait for investment opportunities. Each day, rumours spread about potential match-ups. Negotiations about 'weight' can last for hours or days before a big-money game is made.

Rasta master
Stakehorses and money players with nicknames like 'Angry White Man' wave thick bankrolls of cash and argue their case vociferously until a deal is agreed and a wedge of stake money is posted on the table lamp.

The frenetic debates are reminiscent of those you'd see on the floor of a stock exchange, only the language is more colourful and this is a cash-only business.

Then there are ever-present pro railbirds such as Stevie Evans, a soft-spoken Rasta from Pittsburgh, who always knows where the action is and makes it his business to grab a slice. Sometimes a game worth $5,000 on the table will generate ten times as much in side action.

A non-stop succession of $1,000 mini-tournaments are played on the 40 seven-foot tables upstairs. In the early hours, you'll occasionally hear cries of 'We're having ourselves a Calcutta!' This is an auction where you bid for players to represent you in the tournie - if your guy wins the jackpot can run into thousands. Technically, it's illegal, but the cops on duty at the hotel turn a blind eye.

Even the 26 tables in the chandelier-lit room used for the main tournament matches are passed over to money games as soon as the day's official schedule is completed. Multi-player ring games are also staged in a 400-seater TV arena (selected games are shown on certain cable stations and live on the internet at billiardclub.net).

On my fi rst night a packed crowd watches the world nine-ball champion and inveterate gambler, Alex 'The Lion' Pagulayan, win $18,000 in a six-man, $3,000-a-man ring game. Then, after midnight, the two best one-pocket players in the world, 50-year-old Filipino pool genius Efren Reyes and America's Cliff Joyner square up for a reported $15,000. The amazing Reyes emerges victorious and goes on to win two tournament divisions (one pocket and nine-ball) and the Master Of The Table $20,000 bonus to take his week's earnings over $50,000.

No rest for the wicked
The out-of-sorts Joyner, conversely, suffers two more money game defeats to put his backers $22,000 in the red after four days. One of these defeats is to Corey Deuel, who beats Joyner at one pocket receiving weight, but playing every shot with the rest instead of a hand-bridge (try it and see how hard it is). Deuel dresses like a surfer dude and isn't sure how to spell his own name (Cory or Corey? - even his mum can't remember) but his breadth of pool talent gives him a lot of gambling options.

Scott Frost from Phoenix takes the award for the player delivering the most entertainment/action. His in-your- face negotiation style and string of big-money wins against top players make him a worthy winner. Asked if he'd compete purely as a tournie pro, he shrugs: 'Until the tournaments really benefit the player, I don't see how to survive without gambling.'

Indeed, Frost's official tournament winnings during Derby week amount to $435 for getting through eight rounds of the one-pocket division - barely enough to cover his entry fees, let alone his expenses. That's why he'd rather make one carefully-negotiated game for ten times as much. And that's why Louisville's Derby City Classic is Vegas for money pool players, a hustler's holiday paradise.


PIRIT OF JOHNSTON CITY

The DCC represents a return to the traditions of America's so-called 'great age of pool'. In 1961, on the back of seminal film The Hustler, a newspaper feature on a new tournament in Illinois' Johnston City, highlighting the heavy-duty gambling of real-life hustlers like Minnesota Fats, sparked unprecedented media and public interest in the game.

The so-called Hustlers' Jamboree ran annually until 1972, and while efforts have been made to clean up the image of the sport since, many pool enthusiasts have yearned to re-create the spirit of Johnston City. In 1999 pool table manufacturers Diamond Billiards agreed to promote such an event and the Derby City Classic was born.


MISS YU

Playing pool for money isn't just a male pursuit, and most eye-catching (I wonder what makes you say that - Ed) among the few female players in the action rooms at this year's Derby City Classic was 21-year-old Ellen Yu.

Ellen first went to a local pool hall in Virginia with friends at 16 and was hooked straight away. She's been gambling seriously for seven months and, ironically, she backed herself in this relatively anarchic field using money earned from her day job as a legal secretary. 'No-one at work really knows about my pool,' she laughs. 'Sometimes I play pool all night and go to work on no sleep.'

It was Ellen's first visit to the Derby, but after a dodgy start, she proved to be a tough competitor in a series of all-night games. 'The first day, I was down $800, the next night I was down again,' she admitted. 'By the end of the week I was up though. For me, it's not really about winning money, it's about putting something on the line... that's what gives me the rush.'

Greg/Diamond

y_pool_classic.html
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=541917

Roadie said:
It is getting to the point at Derby however that 10K sets are rather normal. Gotta hand it to Greg Sullivan. He wanted to recreate Johnston City and I think he succeeded in REINVENTING it. Derby City has got to be more than Johnston City ever was. I mean really, 24 hour high stakes action, legends, roadies coming out of the woodwork, unending amount of shortstops with gamble, plenty of money in circulation, great tournaments, pool goodies, high and low end cues out the ass, and of course the forum communities that gather.

Somebody needs to be documenting this for the future. Well, I am definitely missing the action this year. Last year I managed to pull off a few small scores. You all that are there have my deepest envy :-)
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=584822

lfigueroa said:
Is it worth going to?

Yes. If you care just even a little bit about pool, you must go. It is not only the biggest and bestest event in pool, with every passing year it gains in legendary status. Years from now these DCC events will be looked back upon with the same historical importance and personal fondness we now collectively accord Johnston City.

Not only does anyone and everyone with a modest amount of change in their pockets get the opportunity to actually play against world champions, living legends, road agents, shortstops, and just men and women that love pool, you can sit in the stands listening to Buddy Hall comment on a money match, eat breakfast next to Nick Varner, or run into Earl Strickland in the elevator. Banks, 1pocket, 9ball, 14.1, and 3C. Good grief -- 3C!! All played on the finest equipment available. There truly is something for everyone, including a hallway full of vendors selling just about anything and everything pool to include cue repair services by some of the finest mechanics in the country. And if action is what you’re looking for: anyone can get a game for anything.

Have there been growing pains? Yes -- but the kinks are fewer every year.

Are there distractions, like ladies in purple running around giving “hotel tours” -- you bet ;-) love ‘em or leave ‘em.

Does the food suck: yes -- so get in your car and in 10-15 minutes you can be at a Ruth Chris’s, The Napa River Grill, or get almost anything else you crave.

The Derby City Classic really is a classic. You must go.

Lou Figueroa
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=558075

freddy the beard said:
In truth, Greg Sullivan recreated DCC as close as he could to JC. DCC is Johnston City multiplied by 20, but because it's so big the excitement cant reach as high a pitch. How can you replace Minnesota Fats playing Ronnie Allen? Or Harold Worst challenging Luther Lassiter? Still, DCC is a fabulous venue, and I am totally grateful for it. For those who haven't gone yet, don't dare miss it. I only wish I was 20 years younger and in stroke.

the Beard
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=24819
 
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