Joint Problem

Cgra2

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Well today I finished (more or less) my first Cuestick, just turned 70 so all I can say is that I wished I had tried it years ago, but better late than never :-)
I do have a little problem Where the joint mates together, (I am using black linen phenolic joint rings for the mating surfaces),, I had a problem, when I would face it off I would get some small de-lamination of the Epoxy and Cyano finish from the phenolic, right next to the facing job, about 1/16th or less. I finely fixed it with a little moto tool (on the tool post) drum sanding the corner and applying a little cyno on the corner, but cant help but think there is a better way... any input will be appreciated.. If I can figure out how to post a picture I will... I would like to have really sharp corners on the joints..
Cgra2
 
Well today I finished (more or less) my first Cuestick, just turned 70 so all I can say is that I wished I had tried it years ago, but better late than never :-)
I do have a little problem Where the joint mates together, (I am using black linen phenolic joint rings for the mating surfaces),, I had a problem, when I would face it off I would get some small de-lamination of the Epoxy and Cyano finish from the phenolic, right next to the facing job, about 1/16th or less. I finely fixed it with a little moto tool (on the tool post) drum sanding the corner and applying a little cyno on the corner, but cant help but think there is a better way... any input will be appreciated.. If I can figure out how to post a picture I will... I would like to have really sharp corners on the joints..
Cgra2

Well I'm guessing you aren't using carbide sanding mandrels? The "sharp corners" you seek are going to be really tough with the CA finish you've chosen. Some CA's tend to want to flake if you face off the surface after applying the finish. A better option would be to use mandrels...they will keep the CA off your joint face so you should be able to get by with doing all your facing before applying the CA. Then you can simply remove the mandrel then chuck the joint up and very lightly touch the corner with some fresh 400 grit while it spins. This method should keep the CA from flaking off and is going to be about as sharp an edge as possible with your chosen finish. Maybe some others that are more CA knowledgeable will chime in with other options.
 
Well today I finished (more or less) my first Cuestick, just turned 70 so all I can say is that I wished I had tried it years ago, but better late than never :-)
I do have a little problem Where the joint mates together, (I am using black linen phenolic joint rings for the mating surfaces),, I had a problem, when I would face it off I would get some small de-lamination of the Epoxy and Cyano finish from the phenolic, right next to the facing job, about 1/16th or less. I finely fixed it with a little moto tool (on the tool post) drum sanding the corner and applying a little cyno on the corner, but cant help but think there is a better way... any input will be appreciated.. If I can figure out how to post a picture I will... I would like to have really sharp corners on the joints..
Cgra2



Partner I think I can help you out here, sounds to me that what ever tool / blade you are using for facing the joint is dull / not sharp and this will cause the problem you are having. If you have the ability sharpen it, if you currently don't I would suggest buying a good sharpening wheel for your grinder. Please wear a mask and safety glasses while sharpening, depending upon the type of blade you have the residue from sharpening the blade can be bad for you.

I use to have a similar problem you are having sharp blades that were dedicated for nothing but facing solved it completely.

Hope this helps
 
Partner I think I can help you out here, sounds to me that what ever tool / blade you are using for facing the joint is dull / not sharp and this will cause the problem you are having. If you have the ability sharpen it, if you currently don't I would suggest buying a good sharpening wheel for your grinder. Please wear a mask and safety glasses while sharpening, depending upon the type of blade you have the residue from sharpening the blade can be bad for you.

I use to have a similar problem you are having sharp blades that were dedicated for nothing but facing solved it completely.

Hope this helps

Great thought Craig. Being this is his 1st cue...I didn't even take in to consideration that his tool could be dull. I have a local guy that sharpens mine whenever I get a pile every couple years or so. He sharpens them so well that new ones actually seem dull now.
 
Great thought Craig. Being this is his 1st cue...I didn't even take in to consideration that his tool could be dull. I have a local guy that sharpens mine whenever I get a pile every couple years or so. He sharpens them so well that new ones actually seem dull now.



I went out and bought a wheel for my grinder, from a machine shop suppy store. I think it only cost me around $80 but man it has been well worth the small amount it cost in time alone.

Take Care Kevin.
 
Thanks a lot guys, I will try both of them. I am cutting with hi speed steel and do have a grinder probably a seven inch, but havn't sharpened the tool for quite a while. The thought had passed through my mind about the mandrel and I guess it would need to be the same size of the exact joint, which is .840 on most guess. Probably a very small 45 degree break of the sholder, say probably about .025 wouldn't look bad but a dead flush OD was what I was hoping for.. Actually the epoxy and cyano make a good looking finish, and was the only one I had read about and seemed to be the least amount of trouble for me. I have heard of clear coat but don't know anything about it. Are there more suitable ones for the beginner??
 
Thanks a lot guys, I will try both of them. I am cutting with hi speed steel and do have a grinder probably a seven inch, but havn't sharpened the tool for quite a while. The thought had passed through my mind about the mandrel and I guess it would need to be the same size of the exact joint, which is .840 on most guess. Probably a very small 45 degree break of the sholder, say probably about .025 wouldn't look bad but a dead flush OD was what I was hoping for.. Actually the epoxy and cyano make a good looking finish, and was the only one I had read about and seemed to be the least amount of trouble for me. I have heard of clear coat but don't know anything about it. Are there more suitable ones for the beginner??
Without sanding mandrels the epoxy/superglue combo is a pretty good way to go. Another option is one of the many water based finishes. If you had carbide sanding mandrels it opens up more options. But for now the super sharp tool is the best advice that can be given. Also do not drag the bit outward when facing. Only go inward and only take the absolute minimum per pass. If needed you can add a dial indicator to the bed to know how many thousandths of a inch you are moving so as not to dig in too deep and lift the finish. If the problem continues even with sharp tooling I would suggest changing brands of superglue. I like the way the Tightbond brand of superglue sticks better than the others I have tried for a finish. If someone knows of one that is less likely to lift than Tightbond and have tried both, please post it up.
 
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:-) Oh yeah, got some cocobola and a birdseye already in the the pipe line :-) Now If I can just sell some in due time,, I will keep them moving :-)
 
got some cocobola

Since you said you've just made one cue...I doubt that you've used cocobola before. Please take proper measures to protect your lungs...even your skin. Coco dust is quite toxic & deadly to some. Many cuemakers have horrid reactions to it & refuse to use it. Be very careful.
 
Thanks Chris, I am learning from you guys, I never even heard of a carbide sanding die. Stands to reason though, but like my Daddy always said, "hey there has never been anyone smart enough to know something before he learned it".. I have heard the term "good quality cyno" before, but I guess the only way to know is to try it, or to draw on someone else's experience.. I will check on the Tight bond. I will regrind my tool steel and hone it to a razor edge and see what happens.. Guess I need to make a micrometer carriage stop for my Clausing.. something I've already been needing..
 
. If someone knows of one that is less likely to lift than tightbond and have tried both said:
i have no reason to question any advise you ever give , but i will throw in that ive finished at least 60 cues with hotstuff thin
that i always buy at a hobby shop that specializes in balsa radio controled airplanes and they always have a fresh supply ....

Never have had any issues,, some of these cues are 10 years old and belong to friends so i see them frequently

i use no epoxy sealer and about 36 coats as shown on diekmans videos

make sure you have fresh superglue i think thats as important as the brand
 
36 coats????????
I've read many a post about the claim of CA being an 'easy' finish...but...
are ya kiddin' me??? 36 coats???
How can this possibly be considered easy, particularly when compared to one
session in the booth with auto-clear?
I'm not downing anyone for anything, just wondering.

KJ
 
36 coats????????
I've read many a post about the claim of CA being an 'easy' finish...but...
are ya kiddin' me??? 36 coats???
How can this possibly be considered easy, particularly when compared to one
session in the booth with auto-clear?
I'm not downing anyone for anything, just wondering.

KJ



I have to agree, I am completely self taught so CA is all I have used because of where I build and the area dedicated to building. I have never used more than 6 to 9 coats to build the finish to the level I prefer and that I have found works best. I have found that the thicker the finish using CA the more chance that over time it will develop cracks throughout the finish. I use an epoxy sealer coat that is about two thousands thick which is sanded before my first coat of CA, however, I have done it with or without epoxy as a sealer with results that have continued to last.

But, I will say again I do not recommend a CA Finish that is thicker then between 8 and 15 thousands. From my experience it will not hold up over time without developing cracking, and checking throughout the finish, plus in my opinion it also does not bring out the beauty of the wood as well. In addition I am pretty certain that the thicker the CA the more Brittle it will become due to it's hard nature.

Oh and by the way, I use a thick version of CA unlike what others have posted. I find that the Thick CA has a longer handling time which I prefer. I also use an aerosol accelerator when applying finish both the CA and accelerator are mode by the same company which is Aron Alpha, while it certainly is not the cheapest it works very very well. Keep in mind if you use an accelerator only use an Aerosol form, never the type that comes in a spray pump. This is because you can not get an even distribution on the CA which will cause cloudy areas to form sometimes immediately and sometimes over a period of months.

JIMO
 
36 coats????????
I've read many a post about the claim of CA being an 'easy' finish...but...
are ya kiddin' me??? 36 coats???
How can this possibly be considered easy, particularly when compared to one
session in the booth with auto-clear?
I'm not downing anyone for anything, just wondering.

KJ

Seriously its what i do ,, maybe not easy but still deffinatly simple

deikmans videos said 30 and i do 36 cause i dont wanna sand it thin
and want a thin looking finish maybe i will try some with less

definatly not easier than a session in a spray booth unless you are starting out and dont have one
 
i have no reason to question any advise you ever give , but i will throw in that ive finished at least 60 cues with hotstuff thin
that i always buy at a hobby shop that specializes in balsa radio controled airplanes and they always have a fresh supply ....

Never have had any issues,, some of these cues are 10 years old and belong to friends so i see them frequently

i use no epoxy sealer and about 36 coats as shown on diekmans videos

make sure you have fresh superglue i think thats as important as the brand
That is the brand I used for years before switching to the Tight Bond brand. It seems just a little more brittle than Tight Bond. I am not saying the Satellite City products are bad as they will certainly do the job.
I also agree with you that 36 coats is about right for the thin if not using accelerator. I rarely used the epoxy under the super glue either, but it does save over have those coats. I do hope nobody goes out and gets Tight Bond wood glue by mistake and tries to use it for a finish. :)
 
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I rarely used the epoxy under the super glue either, but it does save over have those coats. I do hope nobody goes out and gets Tight Bond wood glue by mistake and tries to use it for a finish. :)

chris one thing i found not from cue making but the radio controled airplane hobby when using cyano for quick field repairs is super glues adhere very poorly to an area allready coated with epoxy ... thus im leary of putting one on top of the other
 
chris one thing i found not from cue making but the radio controled airplane hobby when using cyano for quick field repairs is super glues adhere very poorly to an area allready coated with epoxy ... thus im leary of putting one on top of the other
I have seen it give problems. Especially if you do not sand the epoxy back down to the wood and just leave the pores filled with the Epoxy. My solution was to use Medium Superglue and accelerator to get the pores filled and then use the thin for the final coats. I like the Atlas accelerator the best even though I use a different brand of glue. On the other hand my son likes the thin best for the whole process.
 
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