JOINTS: 5/16x18 out of favor?

jdelcue

jdelcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys,

In regards to joint design over the years. I know that the innovation trend has been towards big pin/flat face joints...the Radial and other 3/8 pins seem to be preferred these days (although I know that 5/16x14 SS is still a huge favorite when executed properly)...but I'm wondering whatever happened to the 5/16x18? Any reputable cue makers out there still regularly utilizing this pin? I've seen it almost exclusively on low-end productions cues these days (i.e. Players, Meucci, Viking?, etc.)....

The reason this topic popped into my head recently was because I had to unload my main player (Nitti/Searing) and have been left with using an old Players cue in its stead...and I've been considering just using a bit of cash from my cue sale to fund a new 13mm dense, stiff custom shaft for the Players butt (that looks and is balanced great IMO). But then I thought about how scarce these 5/16x18 pins are these days...and I'm wondering why...


Thanks,
- Joaquin
 
It's a great question, Joaquin! I have an old Helmstetter with the 5/16x18 pin, and it plays pretty darn sporty...but have also wondered why they are not as popular as they once were.

Lisa
 
Rick Howard's standard Mace jb's are still 5/16-18, too.
If you're looking for a good stiff conventional shaft - he'd be one good choice.

(thx to AtLarge for catching my naming mistake - I work w/ a scheduler by the name of Rick Norman... Oops)
 
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Meucci still uses the 5/16-18 also. The main reason it has lost popularity is that so many low end imported cues used that thread and many collectors and high end cue dealers asked that it not be used on custom cues. I was told by an Asian high end cue dealer that people look at it and think it is a cheap joint because it it used so widely on low end cues.
The reality is that it cost about the same as the 5/16-14 and mechanically is just as good of a joint, but perceptions create or kill markets. So I switched to the 5/16-14 from the 5/16-18 probably 15 or 16 years ago. But I stuck with the flat faced joint because I liked the hit better. I still get people who think my joint is 5/16-18 just because it is flat faced.
 
cueman said:
Meucci still uses the 5/16-18 also. The main reason it has lost popularity is that so many low end imported cues used that thread and many collectors and high end cue dealers asked that it not be used on custom cues. I was told by an Asian high end cue dealer that people look at it and think it is a cheap joint because it it used so widely on low end cues.
The reality is that it cost about the same as the 5/16-14 and mechanically is just as good of a joint, but perceptions create or kill markets. So I switched to the 5/16-14 from the 5/16-18 probably 15 or 16 years ago. But I stuck with the flat faced joint because I liked the hit better. I still get people who think my joint is 5/16-18 just because it is flat faced.
Click to expand...

Perfect. Thanks. Figured it was something along these lines, but I just wanted to be sure....
Well then, all that's left is to figure out what kind of shaft I could have built for how much $ and by whom....

Thanks again, everyone!
 
Longoni uses/used 5/16x18 flat faced on many cues, some of them really expensive. I don't find a real problem with it, hit is similar to a 5/16x14. Many chinese cues found here in Spain (Buffalo, even low end universal) have some weird joint called accu-loc that is like a cuetec but piloted quick release.
 
Finer pitched threads will give a higher clamp force for the same torque on the shaft being assembled.
However, in a wood joint being assembled and dissassembled,the coarser pitch threads last longer.
 
Neil,
Your first sentence is absolutely correct.
Your second sentence omits the fact that the 18 thread is into an insert.
Properly maintained, it should last forever.
 
I use 5/16-14 piloted pretty much exclusively on my cues.
KJ & all - I'd love to hear what you have to say defining the term "properly maintained" where the joint is concerned. I place value on taking care of my stuff.
 
I use 5/16-14 just because it's traditional in my eyes.

Honestly, the 5/16-18 is WAY easier because I can go to just about any vendor on the planet and get me a 5/16-18 tap. Or a bottom tap. Or a spiral tap. Or what ever coating I might want on it so it lasts forever. Or a solid carbide tap. Easy.

5/16-14 is another story. You are limited to the usual suspects to get them, and pay substantially more for them. It is not a big deal, because into wood they tend to last a good long time, but it is nice to be able to try the latest and greatest in coatings and flute designs from tap makers all over the world. Wood does not tap like metal does, so having options is a good thing!

But, I still use the old 5/16-14 just because I'm stubborn I guess.

Oh, and it screws together 23% faster too! So if it takes a full minute to screw together a 5/16-18, the 5/16-14 will only take you 46.2 seconds to assemble! Nearly enough time to chalk the tip!:D
 
Joint protectors go a long way in preserving the pin & insert.
The 18 thrd. was used on a lot of import cues as has been stated, probably because it's a common/standard thrd pitch so the tooling and mtrls. isn't cost prohibitive. Bastard thrds can cost a fortune.
Those anxious to purchase their first cue and barely having money for it, weren't likely to also purchase JPs. So in the case it goes with their chalk and other necessities and before you know it, the joint locks up at some point.
Chalk is an abrasive, dyed sand actually, with binders and whatever.
It's not a good thing to get on the pin or in the insert. (Unless you actually DO want to destroy the joint of your cue.)

Occasional use of a rag to clean the pin isn't going to hurt anything.
I've heard complaints of some squeaking btwn. the pin & insert when assembling the cue. A single drop of light oil generally remedies the problem.

Most of the common pins are for the most part, trouble free.
However, I have seen my share of cross-threaded Heubler nylon inserts.
Hope I never see another one.
With Uni-Locs, pin maintenance is a must! When those puppies lock-up, they lock-up. They need to be kept clean because they are very close tolerance.
Maybe too close.
 
jdelcue said:
Any reputable cue makers out there still regularly utilizing this pin? I've seen it almost exclusively on low-end productions cues these days (i.e. Players, Meucci, Viking?, etc.)....
Click to expand...
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Judd Fuller uses a 5/16x18 on most of his cues.

Don't forget Ginacues and Tad's as well.
 
mnb said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Judd Fuller uses a 5/16x18 on most of his cues.

Don't forget Ginacues and Tad's as well.
Click to expand...

No, he uses 5/16 14. But, he flattens the brass insert.
 
i think the import angles is good. that prob holds a little water. i personally think pin doesnt matter much.

personally i have fixed more bent pins in meuccis 18 thread then any other pin out there. ive never seen a 14 pin bend. just my experience....
 
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