Jump cue debate: discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scottster
  • Start date Start date
S

Scottster

Guest
There has been alot of discussion about the use of jump cues during matches, both pro and con.

What do y'all think about this little adendum to the rules. "After the Break, any player that begins an inning at the table must finish the inning using the same cue at the same length the inning started with."

Not only would this cover jump cues, it would also include "Cue extenders".

This rule would allow the incoming player to use his jump cue or extender at the start of the inning to try an escape a safe, at a price.

It also eliminates the player to bail himself out of poor cue ball control scenarios.

What say you AZ gallery ;)
 
I say no :) for no other reason than I just think it is a bad idea. No offense.

BVal
 
Your saying if the guy jumps and makes the ball, he has to continue playing with the jump cue?:confused: I don't think that will fly.
 
Just my opinion>>>>No flaming please>>>>

I think jump cues should be banned completely. Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to jump-- I just think you should have to jump with the cue you play with. That would eliminate these 1mm / 1" jump shots you're seeing today (with people getting out from there).

I think those close-range jump shots are gimmicky. I mentioned in another thread that jump cues are like "Alien Sand Wedges" in golf (the clubs with slots cut through the face to allow sand to travel THROUGH the club face - assuring the golfer gets out of the sand).

The USGA made those clubs illegal because it allowed anyone to get out of the bunker easily, with little skill. Jump cues are the same thing, I think. Jump cues do for jumping what the Alien Sand Wedge did for golf. If you can't "blast" over an object ball on your own, with your own cue, with your own ability, it shouldn't be allowed.

I'm 100% for jump shots... just without "special" equipment to do it. The funny thing is A LOT of the people who use jump cues prob could never jump without the help of phenolic (which is a shame, because there is a certain method to jump with regular equipment - it just takes excellent form, speed and timing).

Phenolic has changed a lot of things - and I'm not sure if helps the integrity of how the sport should be played... which is prob why the IPT made phenolic break cues illegal (hate to bring THEM up as an example, but it helps ANYONE throw a hard knuckle-ball to the rack).

I'm interesting in hearing the "pros" of the jump cues (also phenolic). I'm so confused why they're allowed, I'm really interested in hearing other's opinions. I might hear something I haven't considered before. Your thoughts?:)
 
just outlaw jump cues and/or phenolic tips. make folks learn a good stroke instead. i don't see this happening anytime soon, but i'd like it.

as for extenders, how are they different from using a mechanical bridge, really? i have no problem with these (though i don't own one).

-s

edit: you beat be to it, spider, and in much more detail. and i can't rep you for it cause you've earned some recently :D
 
Last edited:
Wow I just got through with another rant, now this one. I happen to be Pro Jump Cue / Pro Jump with your regular cue if your able. If your going to Ban a Jump Cue just Ban jumping all together. In the APA jumping is allowed but Jump Cues are not, as a result there is little to no jumping at all because people aren't able to jump with the regular with any regularity or consistantly.

The reason that jump cues are not allowed is because the league feels that is wolud allow an advantage to people who do not own a jump cue much less how to use it. It just levels the playing field.

However once you get to Tournament level play your not playing with your average Joe anyway so why not allow any advantage to the players that are able to take advantage of the technology available. And, besides that a 1mm jump is not automatic just because you have a cue that would allow it to be a possibility.

Even though I have a Bungee Jump Cue I do more kicking to get at balls than I do jumping the ratio isn't even close.

As for pheonic tips are concerned I also couldn't careless, I have a monster break without my BK2, I broke just as well with my original BK it's just now I can tone it done a bit.

It's just my opinion but I say let things be as they are, jump shots just add another element to the game.

Black Cat :cool:
 
I'm surprised to hear about banning certain equipment too. TV players have spoiled us into thinking jumping and making a shot is an everyday thing. I find it's pretty rare to jump and obviously rarer to make it, so why make a special rule about equipment that applies to maybe 1 out of 100 shots?

I don't buy that just because something is harder or takes more skill, it's automatically better. That debate comes up in a lot of stuff, from furniture making to video games.

Even if the right cue makes someone more likely to succeed at their jump, the winner will be the better player who controls the cue ball and runs out, not the better jumper. A guy who weasels out of a few safeties still needs to be a superior player to A: execute without a foul B: sink the ball and C: Run out from there, despite having limited position-playing options on a jump shot.

It kinda feels like sour grapes that people are saying "these crazy cues let this no-skill fish get out of all my safeties and rob me!" ...somehow I don't think these players would be any happier if the same fish did the same jumps with a traditional cue, even if it would take a miracle of skill.

Maybe the problem is that people don't want to get into an 'arms race' with cue sticks and be forced to spend money on a miracle-producing jump stick just to be able to keep up with the Joneses?
 
I'm so tired of the jump cue debate. Been there, done that... fact is they're legal. It's part of the game, has been for years now, deal with it.

btw, I jump with my full cue most of the time.
 
CreeDo said:
I'm surprised to hear about banning certain equipment too. TV players have spoiled us into thinking jumping and making a shot is an everyday thing. I find it's pretty rare to jump and obviously rarer to make it, so why make a special rule about equipment that applies to maybe 1 out of 100 shots?

I don't buy that just because something is harder or takes more skill, it's automatically better. That debate comes up in a lot of stuff, from furniture making to video games.

Even if the right cue makes someone more likely to succeed at their jump, the winner will be the better player who controls the cue ball and runs out, not the better jumper. A guy who weasels out of a few safeties still needs to be a superior player to A: execute without a foul B: sink the ball and C: Run out from there, despite having limited position-playing options on a jump shot.

It kinda feels like sour grapes that people are saying "these crazy cues let this no-skill fish get out of all my safeties and rob me!" ...somehow I don't think these players would be any happier if the same fish did the same jumps with a traditional cue, even if it would take a miracle of skill.

Maybe the problem is that people don't want to get into an 'arms race' with cue sticks and be forced to spend money on a miracle-producing jump stick just to be able to keep up with the Joneses?
Click to expand...

TAP! TAP! TAP!
 
This is kinda interesting as I was just talking with someone about jump cues.

We just got thru a long set of which I think I jumped more balls than I ever remember even considering trying but the first couple went well so it seemed like a good option later on.

So he asks why I never use my J/B for jumping and honestly , I never really thought about it. I break with it and then it gets parked. Once I have my player in my hands , I'm dialed in and that's it.

I was actually quite curious how many people really jump with thier J/Bs anyway ? If I can't pull it off with my player , it's gotta be to risky to go to an extreme cue for an edge.

Maybe just for a practice set . . . maybe. Just my feeling.

Anyway . . .

Ban J/Bs ? Eh , that never really solves anything. The people that really need every possible little edge from a piece of equiptment usually are not the ones you have to worry in the end. :)
 
So that means not being able to use a bridge too???? I agree anyone can learn to jump in 30 mins, but it takes years to learn how to kick well...but then again, they are allowed in the rules so what do ya do?

Southpaw
 
Lets see: Cue Tips
Chalk
Bridge
Gloves
Composite material

These are all things that have been reinvented time and time again over many years. How many variations of each of these items can you count? Who wants to? The jump cue is just another evolution of the game. Nobody likes to conform or any form of change but it is here wether you like it or not. I personally didn't like defensive shots for a long time but I conformed to it like everyone else. I get the same satisfaction jumping and making the ball as I do locking someone down to another ball.
The ones that are jumping actually enjoy it, it is a challenge and a crowd pleaser. It's like defense you can start jumping or be beaten by the jump!

www.youtube.com/killermiller777
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Just my opinion>>>>No flaming please>>>>

I think jump cues should be banned completely. Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to jump-- I just think you should have to jump with the cue you play with. That would eliminate these 1mm / 1" jump shots you're seeing today (with people getting out from there).

I don't think you are seeing very many of these in serious competition, in fact since you are a betting man, i will bet that since the inception of jump cues you cannot find on tape ten instances of people making a jump shot successfully in competition from less than a chalk's width away. Let's discuss the merits/demerits without sensationalizing the issues.

I think those close-range jump shots are gimmicky. I mentioned in another thread that jump cues are like "Alien Sand Wedges" in golf (the clubs with slots cut through the face to allow sand to travel THROUGH the club face - assuring the golfer gets out of the sand).

They are skilled shots based on practice with a piece of equipment. The wedges you mention don't solve a rule problem as the jump cues do. They solve a skill problem. Why don't you advocate that golf be played with just one club? There is a club called a "sand wedge" is there not?

The USGA made those clubs illegal because it allowed anyone to get out of the bunker easily, with little skill. Jump cues are the same thing, I think. Jump cues do for jumping what the Alien Sand Wedge did for golf. If you can't "blast" over an object ball on your own, with your own cue, with your own ability, it shouldn't be allowed.

Do you mean to say that all cues are created equally. Here is a bet for you. We can both agree that Scotty Townsend is one of the bet players on earth. I will bet you the entire inventory of IPT matches that you possess that I can give Scotty two "normal" cues to use and with both he will play lights out. When he tries to jump however he will do so easily with one and struggle with the other. The "ability" did not change but the equipment did. Because one cue's particular construction lends itself to being more jump-friendly and the other does not. Enter the jump cue and the playing field is NOW even because the cue is engineered specifically for the task and NOW it is superior SKILL which triumphs.


I'm 100% for jump shots... just without "special" equipment to do it. The funny thing is A LOT of the people who use jump cues prob could never jump without the help of phenolic (which is a shame, because there is a certain method to jump with regular equipment - it just takes excellent form, speed and timing).

And a cue that has properties suited to the jump shot. See above.

Phenolic has changed a lot of things - and I'm not sure if helps the integrity of how the sport should be played... which is prob why the IPT made phenolic break cues illegal (hate to bring THEM up as an example, but it helps ANYONE throw a hard knuckle-ball to the rack).

So did the leather tip. Should we ban that as well? How should the sport "be played"? If as you say the break cues help ANYONE to break harder then it follows that the people who have the hardest breaks still prevail. It's pretty democratic when it applies to everyone equally. And just so you know leather can be treated to have a hardness that is equal to most phenolics.

I'm interesting in hearing the "pros" of the jump cues (also phenolic). I'm so confused why they're allowed, I'm really interested in hearing other's opinions. I might hear something I haven't considered before. Your thoughts?:)
Click to expand...

If you are truly interested then the pros of jump cues has been outlined countless times in dozens of threads like this one. I think that you already know the pro side of the debate.

If you want to ban jump cues then change the rules so that they are not needed or ban the jump shot altogether.

While you are at it, ban the sand wedge and the putter. Golf would really be a skill game without a bag full of different clubs.
 
It does not take years to learn to kick well. It takes a few minutes to learn to kick using the right principles and systems. It takes years to learn to adapt to all conditions.

Yes it can take only a few minutes to learn to jump using a jump cue. It still takes a good amount of time to master the skill though.

I jump great. One of the best in the world. I can't run out though because I have neglected the diligent practice in tht area of my game. I have however practiced the jump shot to such a degree that it has become a thing of second nature to quickly adjust for the correct amount of trajectory, speed and spin to apply when shooting.

It is an ignorant slap in the face to reduce all that to the equipment. That is like saying that great draw shots are only possible because of a certain shaft taper. Some cues are more suited to the application of sidespin than others but NO CUE takes the shot. Only the PERSON holding the cue can make it DO anything.

Yes, a jump cue makes a jump shot more probable, but it does not make the shot. A chalked tip also increases the probability of drawing the cueball three rails but how many of us can do this consistently no matter what cue we hold?

Back to kicking, with Tom Rossman and 30 minutes I can have any C-Player kicking like Efren. The window is truly open on that bet.
 
Damn, sign me up. Did rossman do a DVD about kicking?

Also, is it possible to do those within-1-ball width jump shots with a regular cue? I only ask cuz I'm broke and can't get a jump cue at the moment, not because I'm a purist :P How much harder is it, if it's doable?
 
My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.
 
I say ban the jump cue. Jumping is fine, just do it with your playing cue.
 
Jude, the bit you said about baseball bats made me think of corked bats, which are maybe a good example of "just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD". Corking a bat allows for a lighter swing and possibly more home runs.

Then again, maybe baseball's ban on corked bats is just as unreasonable as a ban on certain kinds of jump cues, maybe players SHOULD be able to hit a ball with whatever they want, and may the best slugger win. It's only unfair if a handful of guys have corked bats and the rest of the world doesn't, maybe that's what's happening with these special jump and break cues. When these cues are as common as leather tips, will we look back and laugh that there was any debate? Or is the spirit of the game kinda ruined by jumping in general since it takes a 2D game and puts it into 3D, which probably was never intended?
 
Tap Tap Tap

John Barton said:
It does not take years to learn to kick well. It takes a few minutes to learn to kick using the right principles and systems. It takes years to learn to adapt to all conditions.

Yes it can take only a few minutes to learn to jump using a jump cue. It still takes a good amount of time to master the skill though.

I jump great. One of the best in the world. I can't run out though because I have neglected the diligent practice in tht area of my game. I have however practiced the jump shot to such a degree that it has become a thing of second nature to quickly adjust for the correct amount of trajectory, speed and spin to apply when shooting.

It is an ignorant slap in the face to reduce all that to the equipment. That is like saying that great draw shots are only possible because of a certain shaft taper. Some cues are more suited to the application of sidespin than others but NO CUE takes the shot. Only the PERSON holding the cue can make it DO anything.

Yes, a jump cue makes a jump shot more probable, but it does not make the shot. A chalked tip also increases the probability of drawing the cueball three rails but how many of us can do this consistently no matter what cue we hold?

Back to kicking, with Tom Rossman and 30 minutes I can have any C-Player kicking like Efren. The window is truly open on that bet.
Click to expand...

Good Post John. Kicking isn't all that hard. The main thing for any of it is to use your brain. Too many players rely on something or someone else to do their thinking in Pool.
 
Coming up in a room that was ruled by 14.1 and how many balls you could run I didn't buy a jumper til going to the big events. After a few years I stopped using it....I still jump balls with my player, but the last time I broke out the jumper was to play a gaff game where I played with my jump cue....which is hard to do !:)

Jumping with a full cue is a sweet shot to watch, with a morphed out composite thing it makes me cringe no matter who is on the other end of the jumper.

On a side note, I'm short at 5'6" which makes jumping MUCH harder than someone say like Johnny Archer. Maybe another reason the Filipinos choose to kick more?:o

Gerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top