Jump cue debate: discussion

[SpiderWebComm]

If you are truly interested then the pros of jump cues has been outlined countless times in dozens of threads like this one. I think that you already know the pro side of the debate.

If you want to ban jump cues then change the rules so that they are not needed or ban the jump shot altogether.

While you are at it, ban the sand wedge and the putter. Golf would really be a skill game without a bag full of different clubs.

You totally missed my point.. in fact, you prob didn't even read my original post thoroughly. I never said ban sand wedges - I just the USGA banned sand wedges with holes cut through the face (which helped anyone get out of the sand). All I'm saying is these new jump cues allow "anyone" to jump with almost no ability or practice. I know it might seem like I'm sensationalizing things, but ask Earl. Neils hopped the CB that was 6" from behind a blocking ball in the US Open and ran out and won the set from there. Probably cost Earl his 6th US Open. Should that shot have been available? Should he not be forced to kick?

I hate to keep using golf as an example, but it's one of the biggest pro sports in the world. Jack Nicklaus was quoted as saying golf technology was "getting out of hand" and that the PGA should retard golf ball technology and make club grooves more shallow. His reasoning was the golf courses were being made obsolete because people were driving 350 (much straighter because of new 'space age' dimple designs) and really only using a handful of clubs in their bag-- and basically using a golf ball that acted like a 'dart' when shot at the green. His final point was the shot making ability of the pros years before were much better because pros actually HAD to shape balls, HAD to hit 3 irons into greens, etc.

If you read my earlier post, I'm not saying eliminate jump shots... I'm just saying jump with what you play with. If you can't clear a ball that's 7" away with you cue, it prob shouldn't be jumped. I remember when I first played with one, I almost couldn't believe what I could jump. It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball).

They can prob make a break cue that breaks the balls 10x as hard with 0 spin, make a new jump cue that jumps anything, anywhere or a contraption that forces you to stroke straight (I think I saw one of these not long ago - how retarded). My point is merely - is that good for the game? I don't think it's a technology issue like you make it - it's a fundamentals issue.

Calm a bit, you seem upset.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

What do people on here do? "tap tap tap?"
You said it better than me.

 

[John Barton]

You totally missed my point.. in fact, you prob didn't even read my original post thoroughly. I never said ban sand wedges - I just the USGA banned sand wedges with holes cut through the face (which helped anyone get out of the sand). All I'm saying is these new jump cues allow "anyone" to jump with almost no ability or practice. I know it might seem like I'm sensationalizing things, but ask Earl. Neils hopped the CB that was 6" from behind a blocking ball in the US Open and ran out and won the set from there. Probably cost Earl his 6th US Open. Should that shot have been available? Should he not be forced to kick?

I hate to keep using golf as an example, but it's one of the biggest pro sports in the world. Jack Nicklaus was quoted as saying golf technology was "getting out of hand" and that the PGA should retard golf ball technology and make club grooves more shallow. His reasoning was the golf courses were being made obsolete because people were driving 350 (much straighter because of new 'space age' dimple designs) and really only using a handful of clubs in their bag-- and basically using a golf ball that acted like a 'dart' when shot at the green. His final point was the shot making ability of the pros years before were much better because pros actually HAD to shape balls, HAD to hit 3 irons into greens, etc.

If you read my earlier post, I'm not saying eliminate jump shots... I'm just saying jump with what you play with. If you can't clear a ball that's 7" away with you cue, it prob shouldn't be jumped. I remember when I first played with one, I almost couldn't believe what I could jump. It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball).

They can prob make a break cue that breaks the balls 10x as hard with 0 spin, make a new jump cue that jumps anything, anywhere or a contraption that forces you to stroke straight (I think I saw one of these not long ago - how retarded). My point is merely - is that good for the game? I don't think it's a technology issue like you make it - it's a fundamentals issue.

Calm a bit, you seem upset.

I read your post, I understood your points. That's why I replied to each paragraph individually. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and do a bit of reading on the subject before you go off and make points that have been refuted a hundred times over.

You don't hate to keep using golf as an example you are leaning on it because it is easy to find some equipment vs. skill references there to use as examples. Neither Jack nor Tiger would prefer to go back to the clubs used in 1910 I'd wager. However if golf did that they Jack and Tiger would still excel because everyone would be using the same equipment.

I know you never said ban sand wedges - I did. Why do you need them? Why not play golf with one club only? Oh wait you are in a sand trap and so you pull out a "sand" wedge to get out of the sand trap. You are hooked on the table and your only option is to jump the ball so you use a "jump" cue. Does the sand wedge or the jump cue make the shot? No. But it makes the shot easier because it is designed for that particular purpose.

Do you think you could make the jump shots that Shawn Putnam makes just because you have a jump cue? I will give you a month with any jump cue you want and put Shawn in the box against you for any amount you want. If the jump cue is such an equalizer then you ought to have no problem to outjump or at least stay even with Shawn Putnam.

Do I care if Earl lost a match because his opponent jumped a ball and got out? Perhaps Earl should have played a better safe. That's what pros do when they know what options their opponents have. Should Niels be mad if he leaves Earl a jump shot that he can make 95% of the time and Earl makes it? By the way, Earl Strickland uses a jump cue. When he was with Cuetec he had a shorter cue that he used for some jump shots that were too close to shoot with his regular cue. In addition to being an ass he is also a hypocrite when it comes to jump cues.

And yes the jump cue eliminated many of the variables to jumping balls - namely the fact that each 58" inch cue jumps differently, from well to almost not at all. Now instead of fighting the cue players can focus on the shot.

"It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball)."

This statement right here shows that you have no clue what jumping well is. You, like a lot of folks, think jumping well is simply about clearing the blocking ball. For someone who quotes Niklaus on finesse you don't have a clue as to the finesse required to jump well. I will spot you five shots in a ten shot jump contest because I already know from your statements that you have NO CHANCE to make most of the shots I can with a jump cue.

You say it's a fundamentals issue. You are absolutely correct. And with a jump cue in hand the player can work on his fundamentals such as proper stroke technique, proper speed control, judgement and so on without having to fight with a cue that is not designed for the shot and feels awkward and unnatural.

A chalked tip allows anyone with little or no practice to apply spin to the cueball. Should that be allowed? Someone might accidentally draw their ball and think they are a player.......worse they might accidentally spin the cueball just right and beat a player. Ban Chalk!!! Ban Tips!!

Sorry SpideWeb, your experience doesn't stack up to mine. I have been teaching people to jump for going on ten years. I know FOR A FACT that a jump cue does not allow "anyone to jump with almost no ability or practice."

When you have spent time in the box teaching thousands of people to jump with a jump cue, correcting their strokes, explaining the physics, and have the satisfaction of watching their joy when they finally "get it" then you can come back and make authorative statements on jump cues. Until then you are just another jump-cue hater who is ignorant of the facts and blinded by prejudice.

No bet on the Scotty Townsend jump-a-thon with two "regular" cues of my choosing????? I will let you have Earl and you have the same bet.

 

[John Barton]

Damn, sign me up. Did rossman do a DVD about kicking?

Also, is it possible to do those within-1-ball width jump shots with a regular cue? I only ask cuz I'm broke and can't get a jump cue at the moment, not because I'm a purist How much harder is it, if it's doable?

It's possible to do a one mm jump shot with a 58" cue. Not probable though. And for most humans the 1mm jump shot with a jump cue is a near impossiblity as well.

What the refusniks forget to mention is that doing the jump shots close up requires an incredibly still and accurate stroke. It IS a skill shot and not something that the cue does for anyone.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I read your post, I understood your points. That's why I replied to each paragraph individually. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and do a bit of reading on the subject before you go off and make points that have been refuted a hundred times over.

You don't hate to keep using golf as an example you are leaning on it because it is easy to find some equipment vs. skill references there to use as examples. Neither Jack nor Tiger would prefer to go back to the clubs used in 1910 I'd wager. However if golf did that they Jack and Tiger would still excel because everyone would be using the same equipment.

I know you never said ban sand wedges - I did. Why do you need them? Why not play golf with one club only? Oh wait you are in a sand trap and so you pull out a "sand" wedge to get out of the sand trap. You are hooked on the table and your only option is to jump the ball so you use a "jump" cue. Does the sand wedge or the jump cue make the shot? No. But it makes the shot easier because it is designed for that particular purpose.

Do you think you could make the jump shots that Shawn Putnam makes just because you have a jump cue? I will give you a month with any jump cue you want and put Shawn in the box against you for any amount you want. If the jump cue is such an equalizer then you ought to have no problem to outjump or at least stay even with Shawn Putnam.

Do I care if Earl lost a match because his opponent jumped a ball and got out? Perhaps Earl should have played a better safe. That's what pros do when they know what options their opponents have. Should Niels be mad if he leaves Earl a jump shot that he can make 95% of the time and Earl makes it? By the way, Earl Strickland uses a jump cue. When he was with Cuetec he had a shorter cue that he used for some jump shots that were too close to shoot with his regular cue. In addition to being an ass he is also a hypocrite when it comes to jump cues.

And yes the jump cue eliminated many of the variables to jumping balls - namely the fact that each 58" inch cue jumps differently, from well to almost not at all. Now instead of fighting the cue players can focus on the shot.

"It eliminated many of the variables required to jump well-- the only real thing you have to worry about is speed (to make sure you don't jump the CB 1/2 down the table inadvertently). The angle of the cue and technique were a MOOT point (unless you're really close to a blocking ball)."

This statement right here shows that you have no clue what jumping well is. You, like a lot of folks, think jumping well is simply about clearing the blocking ball. For someone who quotes Niklaus on finesse you don't have a clue as to the finesse required to jump well. I will spot you five shots in a ten shot jump contest because I already know from your statements that you have NO CHANCE to make most of the shots I can with a jump cue.

You say it's a fundamentals issue. You are absolutely correct. And with a jump cue in hand the player can work on his fundamentals such as proper stroke technique, proper speed control, judgement and so on without having to fight with a cue that is not designed for the shot and feels awkward and unnatural.

A chalked tip allows anyone with little or no practice to apply spin to the cueball. Should that be allowed? Someone might accidentally draw their ball and think they are a player.......worse they might accidentally spin the cueball just right and beat a player. Ban Chalk!!! Ban Tips!!

Sorry SpideWeb, your experience doesn't stack up to mine. I have been teaching people to jump for going on ten years. I know FOR A FACT that a jump cue does not allow "anyone to jump with almost no ability or practice."

When you have spent time in the box teaching thousands of people to jump with a jump cue, correcting their strokes, explaining the physics, and have the satisfaction of watching their joy when they finally "get it" then you can come back and make authorative statements on jump cues. Until then you are just another jump-cue hater who is ignorant of the facts and blinded by prejudice.

No bet on the Scotty Townsend jump-a-thon with two "regular" cues of my choosing????? I will let you have Earl and you have the same bet.

If my girlfriend -- who doesn't ever play pool -- can take my friend's jump cue and clear an impeding ball, suffice it to say it eliminates the skill, Mr. Jumper-of-the-Universe.

Your attitude is kinda rammy on here, which is why I prefaced my original message w/ "no flaming please" as I was pretty eloquent in my original post, careful not to impose my will on anyone- I just wanted to hear views. Jude said it best where pool wasn't meant to have a bag full of utility cues to play with - that was the point I was trying to make, but he said it better.

Chalk and tips are part of the fundamental, original game of billiards - not shorty little jump cues w/ phenolic tips. Didn't you say in an earlier post you can't run out well but you can jump anything? Sounds like people put the clamp on you during games quite a bit. No wonder you're so "pro-jump-cues." Without your little phenolic-hopping-friend, you'd prob pull your hair out.

No thanks w/ your retarded, tempermental proposition bet. You sound like a 16-year-old barking in a poolhall. "I'll put so-and-so-world-champion in against ya."

Take a beta-blocker, relax and stop the ramming. If you wanna get in my pocket, I'm in York, PA. We can have a friendly game. I'll run over you or you'll run over me. In the end, one thing is for sure.... I'll have my composure.

 

[John Barton]

My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

Probably about as much as I hate it when my opponent misses by two diamonds and gets safe leaving me a nearly impossible kick shot.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

As well I can't stand it when someone hooks themselves and starts counting off diamonds to make the kick - I say ban books and videos and make them go by feel alone. Or even worse when they flail at the kick shot and the cueball goes up and down and comes around to make the shot anyway. That just kills me.


3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

I am with you on this one. Which is why I will stop what I am doing and give them a little quality instruction which make them better and me a friend.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

Which is why I make it a point to teach room owners how to clean the cloth and remove the spots. And which is why I advocate taking an active role in how and when such shots are practiced. People should learn to jump and masse correctly. And good players and room owners need to facilitate that.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

How so? If anything kicking is more important now than ever before because players are playing tighter safes to defend against the jump cue. If kicking is so unimportant then how do you explain the success and plethora of books and videos on the subject?

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

And I hate to see two cases rubberbanded together.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.

How so? What does your ownership of a jump cue have to do with anything. You aren't forced to jump. You almost always have the kick option available to you. The whole idea that you have to use a jump cue because your opponent has one is nonsense and a bright red herring.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it.

Right. I agree. But you don't want to go back to the days of no chalk and no tips do you?

Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

How is a shaft that purports to make the game easier or more consistent or allows the player to impart more spin different than a cue that allows another aspect of the game to be performed more consistently? If Predator shafts truly do what they claim then shouldn't they be banned?

I agree that we must be careful what is allowed and what is not. The jump rods that were only good for clearing a ball were disallowed. In their place jump CUES that are good for doing everything a cue is designed for PLUS jumping balls have been accepted by the majority of the sport's organizations for the last 20 years.

 

[supergreenman]

My list of reasons I hate jump-cues:

1. I hate it when I perform a rather difficult maneuver to leave the cue-ball safe only to watch my opponent pull out his jump-cue and leap over the ball.

2. I hate it even more when he's safed himself and he manages to continue his run by use of his jump-cue.

3. I hate it when a beginninerish player decides to purchase a jump-cue then spend hours at the poolroom flying the cue-ball off the table in his quest to perfect jumping, ESPECIALLY if I'm at the next table.

4. I hate what the cloth looks like when anyone is done practicing their jump-shots.

5. I hate the fact that advanced kicking has become a less important aspect of 9-ball as a result of jump-cues.

6. I hate how jump-cues look rubberbanded to the outside of some googan's case.

7. Lastly, I HATE the fact that I must also own a jump-cue because I refuse to to be a martyr.


Seriously, especially in today's day and age, we have incredible access to technology and there is no doubt that technology will yield tools that are better equipped for a given task. Look no further than baseball's aluminum bats for reference. However, just because technology can produce something better doesn't mean we should use it. Part of what makes up the game of pool is the fact that we are restricted to the equipment of the game. Now, all games evolve and there is no doubt that pool has also evolved but we must be careful what we allow to be a part of that evolution. Such devices as spliced shafts and perfectly round plastic balls are, in my opinion, within the spirit of the rules. Using multiple cues during a game is not.

I thought of you yesturday when I pulled out my jump cue when I was playing some one-pocket.

 

[John Barton]

If my girlfriend -- who doesn't ever play pool -- can take my friend's jump cue and clear an impeding ball, suffice it to say it eliminates the skill, Mr. Jumper-of-the-Universe.

Really, can your girlfriend hit the end rail with a regular cue? Guess pool cues take the skill out of playing pool then? If there is no skill then feel free to take me up on ANY of the bets I proposed. They are ALL ABOUT skill. Once again it's not about clearing balls. It's about control and finesse.

Your attitude is kinda rammy on here, which is why I prefaced my original message w/ "no flaming please" as I was pretty eloquent in my original post, careful not to impose my will on anyone- I just wanted to hear views. Jude said it best where pool wasn't meant to have a bag full of utility cues to play with - that was the point I was trying to make, but he said it better.

Impose your will? Neither you nor I can do that. I can't make you like jump cues. And the "attitude" of your first post on the subject seemed clear to me that your stance will remain unchanged no matter what evidence refutes it.

Chalk and tips are part of the fundamental, original game of billiards - not shorty little jump cues w/ phenolic tips. Didn't you say in an earlier post you can't run out well but you can jump anything? Sounds like people put the clamp on you during games quite a bit. No wonder you're so "pro-jump-cues." Without your little phenolic-hopping-friend, you'd prob pull your hair out.


LOL - you are so clueless in this arena. Ok since you know so much. When exactly were chalk and tips introduced to billiards? What equipment was used before cues in their present form? The answers are all here on the forum. As for my abilities I will be happy to play you for any amount and I will play by the stipulation that I am not allowed to use a jump cue and you are.

I can jump anything because I made it a point to LEARN how to jump well as I was selling jump cues and I thought it would be prudent of I understood all the dynamics concerned. Moreover I wanted to be able to instruct others which meant I should be an expert in that arena. Are you an expert in video over the web? I'd hope so.


No thanks w/ your retarded, tempermental proposition bet. You sound like a 16-year-old barking in a poolhall. "I'll put so-and-so-world-champion in against ya."

I am sorry, did I mistake you for someone barking about putting Scotty in the box to jump off bridges or something like that. If so my apologies. You however missed the points I was making with those statements. Calling someone retarded is pretty eloquent.

Take a beta-blocker, relax and stop the ramming. If you wanna get in my pocket, I'm in York, PA. We can have a friendly game. I'll run over you or you'll run over me. In the end, one thing is for sure.... I'll have my composure.

Sure, it's easy to sit behind your computer and ignorantly denigrate the hard work of a whole segment of the industry and the pool playing population. Why would you not be composed? You have nothing at stake. You have no investment either financially or emotionally.

Perhaps you would feel slightly different I went to some video streaming forums and spouted a bunch of ignorant comments about whatever format you use in your business. I can see that you don't like have your comments challenged and that you resort to base insults instead of dialog. I shudder to think how you'd go off if the tables were turned.

 

[John Barton]

If my girlfriend -- who doesn't ever play pool -- can take my friend's jump cue and clear an impeding ball, suffice it to say it eliminates the skill, Mr. Jumper-of-the-Universe.

And I will bet the farm that you didn't just hand her the cue and say "jump this honey". I am 100% positive that you or your friend gave her at least a little bit of instruction even if it was only "hit here".

Deny it.

 

[CreeDo]

Spider and others... you should probably stop using "the game wasn't meant" or "they didn't intend" in their arguments. That kind of argument's weak because

A: you can't claim to know what some guy 'intended' hundreds of years ago when he invented the earliest form of pool and

B: it doesn't matter anyway, all modern games are a mix of the inventor's intended game and clever modern improvements. Maybe the guy who invented golf "intended" it to be 1 club only or 5 holes or 200 yards. The guy who invented pool sure as hell didn't intend jump cues, but he also didn't intend regular cues or pockets for the balls either, check out the croquet wickets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Billiards-q75-1426x1200.jpg

Appealing to the old days or how something was "meant" to be played is mostly useless. Jumps are within the spirit of the game, it's not like the game will evolve into some frenzied freakshow where balls go flying through the air like startled grasshoppers just because we have equipment that makes it easy... it's still more efficient to win a game by keeping the balls grounded and playing position, and those who do that best will still be the best players, regardless of what trick shots the other guy can do.

PS: I'm sure you didn't mean to come off this way, but it sounded kinda chauvinist the way you mentioned "even my girlfriend can jump with these cues!" ...it sounds a little like... 'even a stupid female can do this!'

I don't mean any offense, I know you wouldn't willingly insult her.
Anyway you didn't mention if she could do it from 1 ball width away or if she could hit and sink the intended object ball. There's a big difference between "I can clear balls with this stick" to "I can sink the shot and get position". Maybe 1 player in a million can shoot a jump shot and sink it with the same consistency as they would a normal shot, plus play some kind of position afterwards. The rest of us can't do all of those things, and don't know anyone who can. Most of us are happy just to get over the impeding ball without a foul, whether we needed a miracle jump cue or not.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

And I will bet the farm that you didn't just hand her the cue and say "jump this honey". I am 100% positive that you or your friend gave her at least a little bit of instruction even if it was only "hit here".

Deny it.

I don't deny it. Of course we said - "hit it here and hold it like this." My only point was she doesn't play pool, ever, and she can jump w/ a jump cue.

You made your point, I made mine. I'm bored w/ this. Ultimately you win because they're legal and prob always will be. I just think it's a shame. You don't. That's your opinion.

 

[Koopa]

Don't want to see my jump cue? Play a better safe. Leaving the cue ball a foot away from the ob hooking it is not a good safe at all. Hell, make me kick 4 rails.

And I agree with what John said. Saying that my jump cue does the work for me is offensive. I learned how to use a jump cue 3 years ago, but I definitely wasn't making as many shots with it as I am now.

Did my jump cue get better?

 

[skor]

I didn't read all the posts on this debate but here is a point to consider:
I agree that jump cues are making it easier to get out of a snooker but it also means that in order to prevent your opponent from using the jump cue you should play a better safety, like freezing the CB to the blocking ball, so while the skill of jumping got easier to obtain, the skill of playing good safety got harder...

You need to look at both sides of the situation, one aspect of the game got easier while the other got harder...

 

[Snapshot9]

Sorry ...

I am with John all the way on this too. Learning to jump first with a full cue, then later on with a jump cue was not particularly easy to me, as I am only 5'7" and getting the right angle is not always the easiest thing to do, but I was tired of getting beat with a jump cue, so I bought one and learned to use it.

Good players do not always jump well, and sometimes lessor players jump better than they play. I evaluate the shot first and decide whether it is best to kick or jump. A kick shot with a good possibility of getting a leave is better than a jump shot that will sell out if you don't make it.

I rarely miss hitting the ball when I kick, and that's up to 5 rails. I kick better than I jump, but I am not too bad with a jump cue either (stroke method). I missed 3 jump shots in a row one night, got pissed off, put the jumper up, and shot the next 4 with my playing cue, and made all 4.

The point is: Jump cues are legal, anyone can use any legal equipment they want to and should use what maximizes their game. Now, if someone else doesn't use some equipment, that is on them, not you.

Final suggestion: If you can not stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and if you can, don't ***** at the cook.
Gee, I still have my old wooden 'Tad' tennis racket, a good racket in its day. Think I would stand a chance against the steel rackets of today?

 

[John Barton]

I don't deny it. Of course we said - "hit it here and hold it like this." My only point was she doesn't play pool, ever, and she can jump w/ a jump cue.

You made your point, I made mine. I'm bored w/ this. Ultimately you win because they're legal and prob always will be. I just think it's a shame. You don't. That's your opinion.

All that proves is that the jump cue works as advertised. It is designed to facilitate the jump shot and it does. Still requires instruction and a bare minimum of skill to perform the most basic task of clearing another ball.

You could just as easily say that hitting the cueball with sidespin requires no skill because of chalk.

It's not about "winning" it's about realizing that the shot is still a skill shot even though the equipment broadens the range.

The reason corked bats aren't allowed is because the whole infrastructure of baseball would have to change by moving the fences back to accomodate the longer distances. That is not the case with jump cues.

All jump cues do is add a wider range to a part of the game that already exists. And as pointed out they make safety play harder which leads to better cueball control and also to better kicking to gt out of the better safeties.

And fans really love well executed jump shots. So it's win/win all the way around.

And I am really sorry if I sounded like an ass. I just get so tired of the same old arguments being brought up even though this topic has been discussed and dissected a million times already.

 

[Slider]

You can't ban the jump shot. Not really...

So far, at least two of the posters in this thread have mentioned banning jump shots, along with banning jump cues.

Banning jump cues is one thing, and is fairly straightforward, but an attempt to ban jump shots would be a regulatory nightmare. Imagine, for instance, how difficult it would be to define a "jump shot". The cue ball leaves the surface of the table on many shots, including the break. What's the criteria?

I have owned a Frog for a few years, and have had opportunity to use it occasionally, but 90% of my play is 9-ball under USPPA, which has now banned jump cues. There's absolutely no problem, and I haven't heard any complaints, everyone just kicks, or jumps with their playing cue. Nobody seems to miss jump cues, except possibly the manufacturers and dealers.

There is one other group of people who miss jump cues - room owners who don't have to recover their tables quite so often.

Ken

 

[supergreenman]

Don't want to see my jump cue? Play a better safe. Leaving the cue ball a foot away from the ob hooking it is not a good safe at all. Hell, make me kick 4 rails.

And I agree with what John said. Saying that my jump cue does the work for me is offensive. I learned how to use a jump cue 3 years ago, but I definitely wasn't making as many shots with it as I am now.

Did my jump cue get better?

I want one of those jump cues that get better with age

 

[Slider]

The reason corked bats aren't allowed is because the whole infrastructure of baseball would have to change by moving the fences back to accomodate the longer distances. That is not the case with jump cues.

The fences wouldn't need to be moved, people would simply need to get used to double-digit baseball scores. Maybe some scoreboards would need to be modified to accomodate the occasional triple-digit game, but that's about it. No big deal. The record books might have to go to a two-tier system, (or would that be three-tier, one for steroids?) but that's a minor bit of history and tradition, something that jump cue afficionados apparently aren't interested in.

Jump cues most definitely change the game of pool, otherwise no one would own or use them. If players have to change their safety strategy because everyone is shooting back at them with a jump cue, that is a significant change in the game. If the cloth on the table starts degrading prematurely, that's a change, too.

Ken