Absolutely this...
Jump Shots - Form or Cue?
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
For actually making the ball and playing position off the jump, it's mostly mechanics and practice. For just jumping over a ball, it's mostly the equipment that does the work for you when using a jump cue or a break cue also designed to jump well. My son's BK Rush break cue jumps very well as a full cue, I actually over-hit an almost full ball jump while sideways off-balance reaching across the table LOL
A jump cue combined with some practice, that is a very deadly combination in the hands of anyone.
If you don't have good form/technique, it doesn't matter what cue you have. I have seem people with carbon fiber jump cues that can jump to save their life. After about 5 minutes of coaching the proper form, they are getting over balls just fine. I do agree that the carbon fiber cues make it a little easier as I have hit most of them. However, I wouldn't go out and get on unless you really wanted it or are brand loyal. You can jump quite well with a wood jump cue.
I appreciate your clarification regarding the feather/ dot confustigation.
I agree. A decade or more back I made a jump cue ... doesn't work whatsoever. My $20 import jumps well ... a friends jump cue, one that Cliff Thorburn was peddling 20 years ago, jumps like crazy. This all with my mediocre stroke.
Dave
Light maple in colour and has a silver metal ferrule...? I remember something back from that era. Can't recall if it was Cliff or Wych that tried to sell it to me though
That's the one. The ferrule was steel IIRC, and rather heavy. My friend bought it off Cliff (who came through Saskatoon every few years).
That cue jumps like no other I've tried. My technique is not great but I can get over a full ball 2" away with his jumper, and have no hope of similar trajectory with any other cue I've tried. The one I made is lucky to get the cue ball 1/8" off the table
Dave
Form, technique, skill is at least 95% of it like you said. It's the indian, not the arrow.
This doesn't mean the cue isn't important. It helps to have a cue that isn't working against you. For example, low deflection shafts are difficult to jump with. Hard tips, or even phenolic tips make it even easier. Dedicated jump cues have the attributes that helps maximize jumping efficiency in all ways. This is why they are used and their helping the process is simply a fact of the matter. But they aren't magic wands....
The CB is only 5.5-6.0oz. Our stroke delivers many pounds of force. It does not take very much to get a CB up in the air.
When I began to learn to jump, I was fortunate that I had the ability to do it on a table and environment where the cloth didn't matter nor the walls (lol). In other words, I spent hours and hours experimenting and hitting literally hundreds of jumps in a day. Different elevations, different angles, different distances, different spots on the cueball, different amounts of force, different "strokes" that is, how I would either stroke it or "pop it" ....
Over time I got very good at jumping a ball, but what I really learned - what really surprised me was how little stroke power was needed to get the CB up in the air, even at relatively short distances. I began to hit the CB softer and smoother than ever. At speeds that at first I thought would not be possible to get a jump. It's how CLEAN, accurate, and smooth you deliver the cue on target. This means my accuracy could go up a lot. I was hitting the so light at one point, most times there would be no visible spot on cloth at all. My accuracy went up so much, the amount I would make the object ball dramatically increased.
This is because practically everyone that starts jumping just inherently assumes that it's a hard to get the CB in the air as they see this as some kind of challenging shot and that it requires slamming it. That's false. I did that too. I was hitting them like a sledge hammer. Many players, sadly never get out of that at all and always hit it like that. Causing them to not realize they are over powering which comes at the expense of smoothness and accuracy, which not only makes controlling the CB harder, but it actually makes the jump itself harder to execute ironically. When you have less control, you aren't maximizing the hit accuracy (point of impact, cue angle, stroke) - and it's that that gives you the most mechanical advantage. Follow through is critical. It is just so very counter inquitive in a natural sense to want to follow through when you're bouncing a CB off slate which on appearance, looks like you're just smashing a tip into a ball into the slate - it doesn't feel or seem like follow through is possible. But it is, and while the cue doesn't quite follow through like on a typical shot, it's not about what the tip does after (because it gets deflected off), but how your stroke flows anticipating a follow through. Strokes are better when there is a foreseen and anticipated follow through that is intended. When you don't have that anticipation or intent, your stroke is hindered. You're "holding back" without thinking it. Some players visualize a spot under the cue ball that they want their tip to hit on the cloth when aiming to help with this. While the tip won't go there because it gets deflected off, it's a guide.
Remember, the CB is only 5.5-6 ounces. Keep that in your head. No need to sledgehammer it. Technique is the overwhelmingly more important factor here.
You can jump over a ball easily with almost any jump cue but the speed control will be different. My Alex Brick jumps way more than my Hanshew. It’s way heavier. I used to hate my Hanshew cause you can’t change the tip, now I love it. It’s as light as the Propel and the airrush. If you’re an amateur I don’t think it matters much as long as your technique is decent. ( Tip matters though ). I can even jump with some super old mezz jump break I got laying around. It’s easy. Airrush is not magic, if you dont know what you’re doing you’ll struggle. Hitting the ball legally is easy, making it consistently is tough especially if you’re trying to control the rock. My 2 cents. I’m no monster dont listen to me. If you’re confused get the predator, cant go wrong. * The best jump shot that I’ve seen was made on me by this Philipino dude, he used a Tiger not sure which model. It’s all technique, mostly.
middleofnowhere
Registered
All things equal, the player with the better equipment will be more successful. The thread has strayed from the original question.
A Champion with inferior equipment would have a hard time outperforming an amateur with the finest equipment.
In terms of equal players, it would probably be no contest.
Would you play an equal players with an off the rack house cue and he uses all his favorite equipment? What do you believe the outcome would be? We actually don't have to guess, it can be easily tested.
Ever been to a tournament and seen even top players switching shafts, even cues? I was at a tournament and saw Segal playing and sent someone to get his other cue. He had just made a deal with Meucci and was playing so bad with his new cue he sent for his old Joss.
This was at Reds in Huston. If you know him ask him I am sure he will remember. He was playing that skinny black kid who was well know around Huston. I think he went to jail later.
Patrica was in the pool room banging balls around with a house cue trying to make a game. One of the players said, I'll take the 7 if you use that cue. Patrica agreed and promptly lost two $300.00 set and quit. He offered the guy the 5 if they drop the house cue thing. The guy declined.
I am not trying to debate with you, just want you to be realistic. The best technique will only take you so far with the wrong equipment. It starts with the equipment. You can play on an out of tune piano but the music will not sound very good.
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Agreed. But a player with a decent jump cue and excellent jump technique will be far better than a player with a decent jump cue and poor jump technique.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
I prefer my wood jump stick but I recently built a carbon shaft jump stick, it jumps different but by far much much easier getting the cue ball up. I let a guy known for being a great jumper hit it, no reason too but the height he could get nearly straight up was crazy
I beat a guy using my j/b for every shot. the sound was brutal and drove him nuts. i thought it was funny as hell.
yep. the nature of the material allow one to make a light/stiff/hd shaft which is perfect for jumping.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
I haven't weighed the whole cue but yes very light. Actually I'll do that now
middleofnowhere
Registered
Your giving unequal players the same cue. It goes without saying the better player will be more successful.
Could a player just beginning starting out with bad equipment be able to develope good technique? Would the bad equipment inhibit him? Would he not be better off with great equipment to start with even as a beginner?
I remember this from taking guitar lessons when I was a kid. I showed up with a Sears Silverstone guitar and the teacher told my father to either buy me a proper guitar or forget it.
Good play starts with good equipment or it is an up hill struggle.
Again, not a debate but I never liked the indian arrow analogy.
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PracticeChampion
Well-known member
Little heavier than I expected 13.4oz but still light. I don't like those little skinny butt jump sticks so I kept a good thick grip but it does break down in front of the handle for a skinny feel
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Didn't want to jack with these indians:
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