Jump sticks have changed the game

[sjm]

Looks like ABZ and my wife might be just sync'ing up. Looks like it's the time of month to discuss jump sticks again, and how they are ruining pool.

Maybe I should just keep a standard reply handy on my desktop so I can paste it in on demand.

The facts:

• Do jump sticks make hopping over a ball easier...?..., yes.
• Are single rail kicks difficult...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks somehow damage cloth more than break offs...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks instantly grant the shooter the ability to aim and control the CB after contact...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks force players to play tighter safeties...?..., yes.
• Do jump sticks completely negate the kick...?..., no.

The opinions:

• What's more entertaining (the crux of pro pool) kicks or jumps...? There's video evidence of one of our naysayers not batting an eye at a one rail kick, but smiling/chuckling with amazement at a jump shot on an Accustats video.
• Jumping with a full cue takes more skill...? No, it just severely limits the opportunity to attempt a jump, and nearly always amounts to a full swing flier. I'd argue there's more skill in using a jump stick. In fact I know that it certainly allows for the application of greater skill.
• Jump sticks are bad because they allow players not to become proficient at kicking???? Cue extensions are good because they allow players not to become proficient with the mechanical bridge????

Very solid post for sure, but a factor you haven't addressed is the luck issue. In my opinion, jumping and kicking both require skill, and even though I feel strongly that kicking requires more, that's not the matter for immediate consideration.

The issue I'm taking note of is that good kickers, on average, have far more control than good jumpers of where the object ball will end up on the many shots played out of a snooker in which no attempt is made to pocket a ball. Object ball speed is something very few who jump can control with any precision, even at the most elite pro level based on my observation.

Hence, for the many jumps in which no attempt is made to make a ball, an extra luck factor is introduced in nine ball because so many of those shots are of the "make a good hit and pray for a good result" variety. For all but "A" players and above, this extra luck factor is enormous, but even for the best jumpers in the world, it's true. The jump cue has dumbed the game down AND added a luck factor better dispensed with.

All that said, my view on the jump cue hasn't changed in over a decade. I feel that use of the jump cue should be restricted to the very first shot of an inning. In other words, if opponent hooks you, then you can use the jump cue, but if you hook yourself you cannot. One should pay the full price for position poorly played.

 

[middleofnowhere]

When I die, I would be OK with it if my epitaph is "he never owned a jump cue" and it would be accurate.

Over the years, I've often been asked why I never bought a jump cue. My answer has always been "I'd rather lose than play pool through the air."

Of course, it's all moot now as I haven't been a serious player since 2005. Add to that that I've played fifteen minutes of pool in total in the last fifteen months. "Fifteen minutes fifteen months." It zounds a bit like a Geiko ad.

That sounds nobel but foolish if your opponent is using one. I remember when one foul became the thing. I began to specialize in it.

Older players were so resistant they would throw away games almost out of spite. Not Captain Hook though. He turned it into an art. It was not long before everybody saw the light.

 

[sjm]

That sounds nobel but foolish if your opponent is using one. I remember when one foul became the thing. I began to specialize in it.

Older players were so resistant they would throw away games almost out of spite. Not Captain Hook though. He turned it into an art. It was not long before everybody saw the light.

Of course, you are right.

Had I played the game for a living, I would have surely spent time mastering the jump cue, but I never played pool for anything but entertainment and played it the way I enjoyed it.

 

[briankenobi]

Looks like ABZ and my wife might be just sync'ing up. Looks like it's the time of month to discuss jump sticks again, and how they are ruining pool.

Maybe I should just keep a standard reply handy on my desktop so I can paste it in on demand.

The facts:

• Do jump sticks make hopping over a ball easier...?..., yes.
• Are single rail kicks difficult...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks somehow damage cloth more than break offs...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks instantly grant the shooter the ability to aim and control the CB after contact...?..., no.
• Do jump sticks force players to play tighter safeties...?..., yes.
• Do jump sticks completely negate the kick...?..., no.

The opinions:

• What's more entertaining (the crux of pro pool) kicks or jumps...? There's video evidence of one of our naysayers not batting an eye at a one rail kick, but smiling/chuckling with amazement at a jump shot on an Accustats video.
• Jumping with a full cue takes more skill...? No, it just severely limits the opportunity to attempt a jump, and nearly always amounts to a full swing flier. I'd argue there's more skill in using a jump stick. In fact I know that it certainly allows for the application of greater skill.
• Jump sticks are bad because they allow players not to become proficient at kicking???? Cue extensions are good because they allow players not to become proficient with the mechanical bridge????

So much this and well articulated. I have seen people say that kicking is harder than jumping. I have disagreed in the past and I continue to disagree. I teach people how to jump. There are some people, mostly low level players, that can not jump with a jump cue to save their life. They don't have the stroke or fundamentals to achieve it. However, those same people can kick. What I am talking about is the physical aspects of it. Kicking is just your normal pool stroke, which anyone can do. However it takes a lot more to master kicking, especially multiple rails, then it does jumping. People say that there is luck in jumping. I would say there is equally luck in kicking. How many times have someone kicked to get a hit and then the object ball slops in? It happens. (that is what set up Efren's Z kick) Every sport evolves and ours is just evolving as well.

 

[sjm]

People say that there is luck in jumping. I would say there is equally luck in kicking. How many times have someone kicked to get a hit and then the object ball slops in? It happens. (that is what set up Efren's Z kick) Every sport evolves and ours is just evolving as well.

Strongly disagree. Yes, there is luck in both, but object ball speed is controllable on a kick, rarely so on a jump and that's why, on average, kick shots have a more random result.

 

[ChrisinNC]

A jump shot now and then doesn't do nearly the damage that the break shot does virtually every rack. that are practicing them

I’ve found that those that are practicing jump shots, even the good players, don’t have the common sense to vary the spot they are jumping from, simply because it is not their cloth and/or they are too stupid to realize what it causes. Usually by the time I see them and stop them, the permanent damage is already done.

As far as practicing breaking, the use of a break pad/cloth will eliminate the burn mark, but does not eliminate the break track line to the head ball in the rack.

 

[ideologist]

Come on now.

Better rails and tables changed the game
Consistent cushions changed the game
Nylon cloth changed the game
Plastic balls changed the game
Better cues changed the game
Modern air conditioning changed the game

 

[The_JV]

Strongly disagree. Yes, there is luck in both, but object ball speed is controllable on a kick, rarely so on a jump and that's why, on average, kick shots have a more random result.

I don't know... Full length cue jump, I'd agree without hesitation. Jump stick, not so much.

Not uncommon to see these popping short jumps not have the energy to reach the full length of the table.

I completely agree that the best of the best can play 1,2, and maybe even 3 short distance rail kicks with purpose. ...and by "purpose" I mean with deliberate control. However lets not kid ourselves here. Kicks to safeties for example are all about maximizing the averages. There's no "if I hit these 3 rails and nick the OB with a 1/8 hit I can roll it here and run the CB 6" behind that cluster". It's more so... "well going 3 rails gives me a shot at getting safe, if I clip it right".

Really... Luck is just a part of the game and directly proportional to the power one uses to play. Full length cue jumps ramp that luck factor sky high. Way worse than what you may see with a jump stick. The difference merely being the amount of attempts.

 

[The_JV]

Over the years, I've often been asked why I never bought a jump cue. My answer has always been "I'd rather lose than play pool through the air."

So you would perfer to have jumping of any sort be removed from the game....? For you it isn't a matter of the jump stick, but jumping in general...? That I can get behind.

What bothers me is the hate toward the jump stick. I don't think jumping is an integral part of the game. I just can't wrap my head arund the notion that the jump stick has ruined the game

 

[Cuedup]

Come on now.

Better rails and tables changed the game
Consistent cushions changed the game
Nylon cloth changed the game
Plastic balls changed the game
Better cues changed the game
Modern air conditioning changed the game

Don't forget that changing the game changed the game.

Missing a 3 rail kick and giving up ball in hand anywhere on the table vs in the kitchen definitely factors into whether to jump or not.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I agree.
Perhaps I'm a purist.
There is an art to kicking and determining the speed of a kick.

This. There's nothing like being locked up in jail and you have less then a 1/4" to hit a ball and you nail it

 

[The_JV]

This. There's nothing like being locked up in jail and you have less then a 1/4" to hit a ball and you nail it

...and nothing like popping the CB over a full snooker >2ft away and landing it within <6 inches to make the game winning shot.

Usually the comparisons draw between the romantic kick, and the modern jump are apples to oranges.

 

[Chili Palmer]

...and nothing like popping the CB over a full snooker >2ft away and landing it within <6 inches to make the game winning shot.

Usually the comparisons draw between the romantic kick, and the modern jump are apples to oranges.

I get it. When I got back into pool about 3 years ago I bought a jump cue and practiced for a few months. I got OK at it and yeah, I've jumped to make the 8 once or twice, or jump after a pushout and runout, I get it. I'm just much better at kicking so that's what I'll stick with. If I was still practicing a few hours a week and was trying to work on my game I would probably go back to practicing. It is part of the game and they're not going away so if needed I would learn how to be more efficient with it - but only for the prosperity reasons, I would rather kick, it's just much more satisfying

 

[sjm]

So you would perfer to have jumping of any sort be removed from the game....? For you it isn't a matter of the jump stick, but jumping in general...? That I can get behind.

What bothers me is the hate toward the jump stick. I don't think jumping is an integral part of the game. I just can't wrap my head arund the notion that the jump stick has ruined the game

Sounds like you didn't read post 21, so I'll quote my own post:

"my view on the jump cue hasn't changed in over a decade. I feel that use of the jump cue should be restricted to the very first shot of an inning. In other words, if opponent hooks you, then you can use the jump cue, but if you hook yourself you cannot. One should pay the full price for position poorly played."

The jump cue is, of course, here to stay, and anyone who expects to make a significant amount of money at pool must learn to use it effectively.

 

[garczar]

The jump-cue was just a response to a rule change aka one-foul/BIH 9ball. One-foul came about simply to SPEED tournaments up, not to make the game better. I remember when one-foul/TexasExpress showed up in the early-mid 80's as a way to get events done on time. 2-foul was how everyone played then and it can be slow as far as running a tournament goes. Faced with giving up BIH on any foul that's when the jump-cue showed up. In most instances its easier to just jump and get a good hit than to kick at it. A lot of younger players think one-foul is how its always been played. Wrong. The great Johnston City event experimented with one-foul but it didn't get popular til the Texas Express rules came along later. The jump cue was nothing but a reaction to the rule change. IMO DCC has it right, yeah you can jump just have to use your playing cue.

 

[Fore Rail]

My take on the jump cue revolves around the game and size of table in which I am playing. Wouldn't much care if I can't use my jump cue playing on the big table period. Now change that to playing bar box 8 ball then I would have a big problem taking away the shorty.

 

[The_JV]

Sounds like you didn't read post 21, so I'll quote my own post:

"my view on the jump cue hasn't changed in over a decade. I feel that use of the jump cue should be restricted to the very first shot of an inning. In other words, if opponent hooks you, then you can use the jump cue, but if you hook yourself you cannot. One should pay the full price for position poorly played."

The jump cue is, of course, here to stay, and anyone who expects to make a significant amount of money at pool must learn to use it effectively.

You're going to have to forgive me. They all tend to blur together and you did also say you'd rather lose then play in the air. The above quote reads to me like a preferred compromise because you know the short stick is here to stay.

If you had the last say on the matter for all pool. Would it be 'no jumping' or 'no jump stick'...?? This isn't about what's good for the game. Just your personal perference.

I'm not trying to bait you. I just think that the whole anti-jump stick angle is self serving and disguised with perserving the sanctity of the game. No jumping at all is a different matter.

 

[sjm]

If you had the last say on the matter for all pool. Would it be 'no jumping' or 'no jump stick'...?? This isn't about what's good for the game. Just your personal perference.

I'd keep the jump stick as long as it can't be used to escape a self-inflicted snooker, otherwise I'd get rid of it. As someone who watched pro nine ball live for twenty years without jump sticks, I can tell you that there were very few full cue jumps. I'd guess you see at least fifty times as many jump shots today as you did before jump cues. Anyone who tells you that jump shots were a significant part of the game back then either forgets or is kidding you. In my books, lose the position and you lose the runout. It was that way for all the greats of yesteryear. Position play is sacred, and anything that deemphasizes it in any way rubs me the wrong way.

PS Yes, when I'm playing pool, I won't use a jump cue, but that has little to do with my preferences for the pro game. The only problem I've ever had with the jump cue is when it greatly reduces the penalty for position poorly played, which these days is fairly often.

 

[The_JV]

I'd keep the jump stick as long as it can't be used to escape a self-inflicted snooker, otherwise I'd get rid of it.

Hard to argue with this... I agree that it has become a tool to recover from otherwise lack luster play.

I know I have cited the example before in simliar threads, but it would be a shame to lose the ability to incorporate a jump shot into pattern play though. The concept of playing shape mid pattern for a jump shot blows people's minds, but it is something they'll talk about for a long time afterward. I think I've done it once in league a billion years ago.

I'd vote for allowing a jump 'shot' (not exclusively stick) only after opponent safety.

 

[sjm]

I'd vote for allowing a jump 'shot' (not exclusively stick) only after opponent safety.

Think I'd go a step further. Allow a jump on the shot following any opponent snooker, including when their miss results in a snooker. I think allowing a jump on the first shot of any inning covers all appropriate contingencies.