Jumping and follow through? Need opinions from instructors.
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
You can find some good jump shot technique advice here:mnorwood said:
The grip should be light and the follow-through should not be forced, IMO.
Regards,
Dave
The cueball is not pinned against the slate. Pinned refers to trapped or not able to moved. The cueball is able to move away from the force and it reflects off the table since the force applied by the stick is moving through it.
If you want to apply draw, follow and sidespin then you need to follow through.
You can get the action of jumping by punching the stroke but you will lose control and you will have to hit the ball harder in order to make it go the same distance as if you simply followed through as you do on every other shot.
When I teach jumping I show both ways and discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both ways as well as when you do want to punch it.
What I have a problem with is when you say in your video in big bold letters DO NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.
I teach the exact opposite and since you have so many subscribers and views on YouTube I think it is prudent if you would rethink this advice and perhaps change the video to reflect the fact that this shot is like any other shot only it's performed at a different angle.
I'd be happy to do videos to demonstrate this.
If you want to apply draw, follow and sidespin then you need to follow through.
You can get the action of jumping by punching the stroke but you will lose control and you will have to hit the ball harder in order to make it go the same distance as if you simply followed through as you do on every other shot.
When I teach jumping I show both ways and discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both ways as well as when you do want to punch it.
What I have a problem with is when you say in your video in big bold letters DO NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.
I teach the exact opposite and since you have so many subscribers and views on YouTube I think it is prudent if you would rethink this advice and perhaps change the video to reflect the fact that this shot is like any other shot only it's performed at a different angle.
I'd be happy to do videos to demonstrate this.
Speaking of videos, here's a good one that shows what happens during the execution of a jump shot. The CB is temporarily pinned, but the energy has to go somewhere which causes the CB to bounce off the slate. This all happens just before the tip follows through. Thanks to Dr. Dave for creating this video.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-2.htm
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-2.htm
I think follow though is important. I also believe that you don't need to 'scare' the table with so much follow through...IOW, only hit the ball hard enough to touch the table with the follow through, not rip it wide open.
Another guide I always tell beginners is to basically aim to hit the table where the CB it making contact with the table. I think if you view the vid's listed, the slow motion vid's, you can stop the vid at the point of impact and see that advise is true on most shots. Only the ones that try to back up the CB are aiming behind the contact point and the one showing the CB being 'trapped' is definitely aiming ahead of the contact point.
Those slow motion vid's are great. I try to refer to them when ever I can. It make it a lot easier, in most cases, to explain certain situations that occur that happen too fast to actually see, like double hits.
L8R..Ken
Another guide I always tell beginners is to basically aim to hit the table where the CB it making contact with the table. I think if you view the vid's listed, the slow motion vid's, you can stop the vid at the point of impact and see that advise is true on most shots. Only the ones that try to back up the CB are aiming behind the contact point and the one showing the CB being 'trapped' is definitely aiming ahead of the contact point.
Those slow motion vid's are great. I try to refer to them when ever I can. It make it a lot easier, in most cases, to explain certain situations that occur that happen too fast to actually see, like double hits.
L8R..Ken
Actually the tip does not hit the table when you jump. You can see this by using red chalk. I don't have the video now but I used to have one where I showed a slwo motion jump shot that I did where I tried to hit the table. I followed through as much as I could and you can clearly see that the tip does not hit the table.
One of the fallacies in the anti-jump cue arguments is that the tip damage the cloth. In my demonstrations I walk around the table jabbing the cloth with my tip to PROVE that the cue does not damage the cloth EVEN if it were to hit the cloth, which it doesn't.
One of the fallacies in the anti-jump cue arguments is that the tip damage the cloth. In my demonstrations I walk around the table jabbing the cloth with my tip to PROVE that the cue does not damage the cloth EVEN if it were to hit the cloth, which it doesn't.
Big C said:
I don't think that the cue ball is pinned in this video - it compresses into the cloth before taking off but it is not pinned or trapped between the cue and the cloth at any time. The cue strikes the ball and the ball moves away from the cue.
The cue is clearly striking the ball below the equator here and as such there can be no trapping going on. If there were then the cue ball could not leave at that angle.
I for one would like to have seen more videos of this nature done where the cue ball is struck at different positions and different angles.
In fact I will do such video but mine is not high speed 1000fps. I wonder what it costs to rent such equipment here in China. I will put that on the to do list to find out.
JB Cases said:
Thanks John. First time I have watched that video. Lots of poor information. Don't be too hard on the gentleman, he tries to be very precise. I'm sure he helps more than he hurts, after all he dosen't claim to be one of those "know it all" instructors...
...SPF=randygthis is how I teach it...
The jump requires a small follow-through and the best way to complete the stroke is by using the arc movement of your wrist. Always practice the jump on a napkin or scrap of cloth. Warmup strokes should include minimal wrist movement, and the final stroke should include enough wrist movement to get your tip a good 3/4 to 1 inch through the cueball. Tip speed and a hard hit are not necessary as most think either. I can consistently jump a full ball which is two ball diameters from the cueball without leaving the horrible white mark.
The jump requires a small follow-through and the best way to complete the stroke is by using the arc movement of your wrist. Always practice the jump on a napkin or scrap of cloth. Warmup strokes should include minimal wrist movement, and the final stroke should include enough wrist movement to get your tip a good 3/4 to 1 inch through the cueball. Tip speed and a hard hit are not necessary as most think either. I can consistently jump a full ball which is two ball diameters from the cueball without leaving the horrible white mark.
mnorwood said:
Please elaborate on the poor information. So you follow completely through on a jump shot.randyg said:Thanks John. First time I have watched that video. Lots of poor information. Don't be too hard on the gentleman, he tries to be very precise. I'm sure he helps more than he hurts, after all he dosen't claim to be one of those "know it all" instructors...
Tell me something if you follow completely through that would mean the cue tip ends up on the felt. Who executes a jump shot like that? I believe we have an argument of semantics here. When I say don't follow through I mean don't follow all the way through.JB Cases said:
mnorwood said:
I'm not really an expert on this, but that doesn't have to stop me ;-)
On a jump shot it's more about your perception of what you're doing than what the cue actually does. So yes, you should stroke intent on following through.
You will not "pin" the ball by following through. On those shots where you DO pin (double-hit) the cueball and it scoots out with no jumping action, you would have had that problem even if you tried to yank the stick back.
I think when players attempt to NOT follow through, what they actually accomplish is they mess up their stroke (tip placement and speed) just when it really matters.
I think it's best to concentrate on a good follow through--that is, do your stroke imagining you're driving the tip right through the ball to the cloth. My experience is when people can't jump very well, telling them to follow through leads to immediate improvement.
Randy? John?
On page 241 of your book you say not to drive the cue through the ball with a firm grip. What do you mean? You also say the cue should rebound away from the cue ball to avoid interference with the motion of the cue ball. That doesn't sound like follow through to me. Please explain?dr_dave said: