Let me guess -- it went off the rails and got deleted?
And here I thought someone was finally going to get to the bottom of this CTE stuff.
And here I thought someone was finally going to get to the bottom of this CTE stuff.
Just Curious....What Happened to Sean Leinen's Thread?
- Thread starter BasementDweller
- Start date
It was here:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4973109
Not sure what happened. I knew it was locked... but why deleted?
Click the link from the left side while holding the shift key then pivot to the middle of the link.:thumbup:
I followed your directions and now I'm stuck in NPR....someone help! Get me out of here!!!
All the wrong people have been banned or warned to death and threads lost because someone keeps listening to all the wrong people is "my opinion' on the decline of this forum. Soon to be a ghost town. Very few interesting and entertaining members left on here.
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Cry a river John.
ahh you again lol your still bringing the John barton thing up. At least barton brought something to this site unlike yourself TROLL. I would play with you troll but I am sure I will be the one who gets warned or banned lol
lol lol
wait, another lol
wait, another lol
huh?! ...you need to sharpen the troll skills a bit more there if you want to bring my game out :smile:
It was moved to Facebook so Roadie can participate.
Well, once you use the standards and conventions of the math world, CTE is not math based as stated.
As with all aiming methods, it is purely visual. There is not a aiming method based on math.
There is understanding aiming concepts using the Ghost Ball principle which if you look at a few pool apps you will notice this in use. This is math based.
But getting the CB to that spot that makes the OB go where you want in the real world is not math base but experienced based. Good ole trail and error.
As with all aiming methods, it is purely visual. There is not a aiming method based on math.
There is understanding aiming concepts using the Ghost Ball principle which if you look at a few pool apps you will notice this in use. This is math based.
But getting the CB to that spot that makes the OB go where you want in the real world is not math base but experienced based. Good ole trail and error.
Ghost ball = math based ???? Try making the same shot (same angle) using different strokes and speed. Object ball at least 3 diamonds from the pocket, and cue ball at least 2 diamonds from object ball. Play stun, follow, draw, power follow, power draw, drag and slow roll. Try it and tell me how your ghost ball works. And then you can say anything about the ghost ball "system" (it's a joke not a system).
P.s. All of these shots should be played on the cb vertical axis. No sidespin, and tricks....
Good luck
Just to be clear, I 'upgraded' from the ghost ball approach when I was probably 14.
However, as I see it, the ghost ball is what sends the ball to wherever one wants to send it. Yes there is collision induced throw & other factors, but as I see it, one can target the thin hit side of a pocket with 'ghost ball' and compensate for CIT, etc.
You said all must be hit on the vertical axis but a bit of outside can negate the CIT.
Duckie/Greg pushes Ghost Ball & many put him down for doing so but... Ghost Ball or contact to contact is the basis of the science regarding the two sphere collision & the corresponding reactions. Everything else is based or back out from that position.
I certainly know & understand what you're saying & I agree with you.
I'm just saying that Greg, so far, is just staying true to the foundation & if it is working for him then that is all that matters...for him.
Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick
Hello Rick !!!! So, the same shot doesn't have the "same" ghost ball for every stroke and speed !!!! We have to "see" different ghost balls. But we don't see anything !!! Where is this "thinner" or "thicker" ??? Can you see it ? Can it be part of your perception ? No, you can't do that. It just "feel" and "visualization". Nothing is objective with this. And it is not a method.
Hey, I hear you & agree. As I said, I 'upgraded' in several months of playing when I was about 14.
That said, I think it is the foundation & one has to at least understand the basic concept. It can be an 'aiming' method but as you say, it is conceptional or visualization based.
From there, they're are many directions that one can go.
As to the thicker or thinner, I, for one, can certainly envision a ghost ball location that will pocket the ball into either side of the pocket or even miss the pocket. Now when I go to shoot the shot I will 'convert' that 'vision' into another visual form from the the cue ball orientation & use whatever method I might choose. That could be a fractional overlap, a shadow spot, or what ever.
All I mean to say is that Greg is at the foundation of the concept for getting different angles of separation based on one traveling sphere colliding with another at rest sphere of hopefully the same size & weight.
When he hits enough balls, he will probably not give the ghost ball a second thought or not even a first thought.
Also, I think Greg sees Ghost Ball as a more universal method than others such a CTE. For instance, when playing one pocket or defensive shots in other games the objective is not always to pocket the ball. When those instances come up other systems or methods usually must be put aside & what does one revert back to? Is it ghost ball?
I see where Greg is coming from but it is difficult to put all of this 'stuff' into the proper or appropriate language.
When I went from ghost ball, even though it was never called that to me, I went to fractional overlap & used that line as my 'aiming' or 'targeting' or simply my line of focus, as the cue stick 'NEVER' aimed at that except for straight in shots that I did not want to cheat the pocket.
As you know, none of us that has played for any real length of time will ever go back to ghost ball as our primary method & perhaps some never did use it. It's just that that is where Greg is & he sees it as the foundation & everything else as offshoots & he feels like why venture off of the foundation. One day he might see a reason & then again maybe not.
If Irving Crane did actually use just ghost ball, he did very, very well with it, but his contemporaries that did not use just ghost ball also did very, very well with whatever they were using.
I think Greg should 'realeyes' that those that have left ghost ball will never go back.
And I think the rest of us should 'realeyes' that we are not going to convince Greg to leave ghost ball, at least not until, he is ready to do so, if he ever is.
Again, Best Wishes,
Rick
PS If one defines ghost ball as the location to send the OB into the center of the pocket then that is not how I define it nor do I think that is how Greg defines it. Ghost ball as I & I think Greg define it is also used for banks, combinations, safeties etc.
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In my little world, the use of ghost is two fold.
First is using the ghost ball principle to understand how the variables of a shot can influence the execution of a shot and what can and can not be done based on this.
The variables are distances and angles and CB speed. A long shot to a pocket is harder to cheat a pocket than one that is close to the pocket as a example.
The above applies to all shot regardless of how one determines where to put the CB to make the OB go where you want.
Then there is Ghost Ball visualization method which is how one determines where to put the CB. If one can visualize non exist lines or overlap's or make believe reference points, why is it so hard to believe one can "see" a non exist ghostball?
And no, I will never change nor do I expect anyone to change anything. I m just giving different view points based on my experiences and what works for me.
Its all about visualization, hence the use of terms like fuller, thinner, 1/2 ball hit and so on. In the math world, these things are impossible. But in your minds eye, ie visualization, it is possible to fool yourself in thinking you can 1/2 a ball.
Its unreal what I can do with the balls. And not one lessons nor DVD bought. Just a few select books, my drawings and practice. It really is that simple.
First is using the ghost ball principle to understand how the variables of a shot can influence the execution of a shot and what can and can not be done based on this.
The variables are distances and angles and CB speed. A long shot to a pocket is harder to cheat a pocket than one that is close to the pocket as a example.
The above applies to all shot regardless of how one determines where to put the CB to make the OB go where you want.
Then there is Ghost Ball visualization method which is how one determines where to put the CB. If one can visualize non exist lines or overlap's or make believe reference points, why is it so hard to believe one can "see" a non exist ghostball?
And no, I will never change nor do I expect anyone to change anything. I m just giving different view points based on my experiences and what works for me.
Its all about visualization, hence the use of terms like fuller, thinner, 1/2 ball hit and so on. In the math world, these things are impossible. But in your minds eye, ie visualization, it is possible to fool yourself in thinking you can 1/2 a ball.
Its unreal what I can do with the balls. And not one lessons nor DVD bought. Just a few select books, my drawings and practice. It really is that simple.
Hi Greg,
I've never had a formal lesson since my Dad showed me at 13 years old how to bridge, angle in & angle out for rails or there abouts & the place to put the cue ball to cut a ball, basically ghost ball but he never called it that & no books nor DVDs until the last couple of years with CJ & I previewed Ray Martin's book before I gave it to a friend.
I would think that you know that when someone says, '1/2 ball hit' they are referring to the center line of the cue ball lined up to the visual circumference line of the OB as seen from the perspective of the cue ball & beyond to one's eye or eyes. Or perhaps better said it is the 'edge', circumference, of the cue ball aligned to the center, middle of the OB, hence the 1/2 ball. It is a visual reference & not a literal one as you & most of us know that it is not actually a '1/2 ball hit'.
For cuts greater than that the center line is off the visual circumference of the OB & there is not a real visual reference using the center line for the shots. But... if one uses the 'edge', the visual of the circumference of the CB, then it can be visually aligned to other parts of the OB such as estimated fractions as seen from the CB's perspective & the eye or eyes.
Also 'fractions' of the CB can be visually aligned to equal 'fractions' of the OB. This is the equal fractional overlap method that I naturally gravitated to when I was about 14 with NO instruction or suggestion from anyone. In essence it is 'seeing' the contact to contact line instead of the center CB to Center Ghost Ball line which takes imagination to 'see'.
I understand that you align to the 'spot' on the cloth that the ghost ball would sit & IF one is very good at estimating that spot it should work well as you say that it does.
That said, some & it would seem very many, if not nearly everyone else, is not so adept at estimating that spot accurately & we have gone on to other things that work better for us.
Honestly, I do not know why so many can't seem to see that your way can work quite well if one can accurately visualize the ghost ball center spot & then put the CB center on that spot.
As long as you are successful with your method & happy with how you are able to compete then there is no reason for you to change anything. If a day comes that you are not happy with your competition level perhaps then you will look for something that might improve your competition level. If that day ever comes I wish you the Best of Luck with whatever you might choose to try.
All the Best to You & an Early Merry Christmas to You & Yours,
Rick
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