Just finished a 5 day workshop with the monk!

[poolpro]

I just got home a little bit ago from the Monk's Maine Event 2, also known as the West Palm Beach experience.

Here is a link here http://www.monkbilliardacademy.net/MainEvent2.html

I like this link because it mentions me winning the tournament!

I had such a GREAT time at this event. There was soo much information covered. We had a full field of 8 players and many guest instructors.

We all learned a great deal about the game and our individual flaws and concerns. A great time was had by all, and there was something for every level of player, with plenty of hands on time for each person.

This is such a fantastic program, and I would HIGHLY recommend it to anyone who is serious about improving their game. It is a fact that EVERY player is going home a better player than when they arrived.

There were many things that were covered that are not in any of the books out there ( even the monks), that are worth more than the cost of the program by themself. There was also videotaped stroke analysis.

We worked for a minimum of 8 hours a day for 5 straight days. My head is still swimming with all I have gone over, and I have a great manual for future reference so I do not lose the knowlege.

I am very tired from all of this, but just want post up something to share with you about this great program. I have also made some great friends during this event. If any of you are on here, please post in this thread and say hi, and tell of your experience.

I will post up more later. I would love to answer any questions anyone may have about this event. There is going to be another one in november. I will be there.


Jason

 

[CreeDo]

Sounds like a good time... west palm is one of the nicer places on earth. What flaws did he spot and what did he recommend to fix 'em?

How's the monk play these days? Or do you never get to see him shoot, it's 100% instruction?

What stuck out in your mind about his teaching style? What's he have to say on ball pocketing and aiming?

Also, hope this isn't a tacky question, but I looked at the site and saw the bit about a 200 buck deposit but couldn't find the cost.. It sounds like a great time at any price.

 

[poolpro]

Sounds like a good time... west palm is one of the nicer places on earth. What flaws did he spot and what did he recommend to fix 'em?

How's the monk play these days? Or do you never get to see him shoot, it's 100% instruction?

What stuck out in your mind about his teaching style? What's he have to say on ball pocketing and aiming?

Also, hope this isn't a tacky question, but I looked at the site and saw the bit about a 200 buck deposit but couldn't find the cost.. It sounds like a great time at any price.

Thanks very much for your questions.

It was a LOT of instruction! But we did have a tournament at the end of each day, which was a great way to finish the day. The monk played in the tournamnets, though I honestly believe he has no intentions of winning them. It seems it is his policy to not win his own tourney. I won against him 3-0. I believe I played very well. I also believe he did not have any intention of winning the tournamnet no matter how I happened to have played.

Let me be clear though, he does not just sit there while you shoot the shots and tell you what you are doing wrong. He SHOOTS the shot himself. So while the focus is NOT on how the monk plays, he can and does actually shoot the shots to help you make them. I KNOW he can properly execute every shot he asks us to make. He has no problem grabbing any cue that is handy and demonstrating ANY shot at hand. I have no doubt the monk can play.

I love his teaching style. He is very firm and expects you to stay focused and perform, but is very encouraging at the same time. I must say that the group dynamic is awesome. It is a perfect group size of 8 players. If it were an 8 to 1 student to teacher ratio, it would be great. BUT it isn't. It is far better. There are others who come in to help too. You get a LOT of 1 on 1 time, as well as individual time on a table with guidance. I was absolutely amazed at how good he was at giving EVERYONE just the right amount of attention while focusing on the group as a whole. There were times you would THINK he was not paying attention to you, but he would give you a comment or correction on your performance. You had the freedom to really put things to use, but NOT enough freedom to completely lose focus, and play around. This was very impressive to me.

While anyone could definitely benefit from one on one instruction from the monk, I think he hit gold with this workshop. I know I benefitted greatly by having the group dynamic. Five full days is a long time to really focus on something, and it is very nice to not feel that you, and you alone are under the microscope for every minute of that time.

As far as aiming and pocketing. YES that is covered in great detail. I know that one method in paticuler helped many gain a great deal of confidence.

As far as my flaws? I was perfect! No, I am kidding of course. Though I did work with Scott Lee not too long ago, so I was not too bad. When I did my video analysis I looked really good. There was not too much to discuss. I proved that I do know proper fundamentals and can perform them when asked. My REAL problem is that I am not disciplined enough to use my proper fundamentals and pre shot routine EVERY time. I play for long periods of time, and just get lazy. I will say that one of the PRIMARY points of this workshop is consistant focus. I do beleive that I have been given the proper tools to achieve this, the rest is up to me.


Let me end by saying that I am an APA 7 and one of the top players in my league. We also had APA level 4 and 5, and no one is left out. I was VERY impressed at how well some of the players were able to handle some very advanced shots. Also this is a WORKSHOP, not a lecture. You will not sit there with a notebook and be trying to stay awake. You will be SHOOTING shots. This is the most hands on I have ever seen.


In case you missed it, I think this is just a fantastic program.


Jw

 

[poolpro]

Who else? Anyone else have a good monk story or experience?

 

[justadub]

Who else? Anyone else have a good monk story or experience?

Just a follow up to CreeDo's original question... again, if you are at liberty to say.... how much does the workshop cost?

If you aren't able to say, or uncomfortable doing so, a PM would be appreciated. Which would stay right there in "private" mode, not to be repeated.

It sure does sound awesome. I look forward to reading more about your experiences there.

 

[poolpro]

Just a follow up to CreeDo's original question... again, if you are at liberty to say.... how much does the workshop cost?

If you aren't able to say, or uncomfortable doing so, a PM would be appreciated. Which would stay right there in "private" mode, not to be repeated.

It sure does sound awesome. I look forward to reading more about your experiences there.

Okay, here is a better link http://www.monkbilliardacademy.net/

click the link, feel free to explore the site. Check out the "click here for more information" link and it will take you to the part about the workshops. There is also a "pool workshops" button on the left heading.

I wanted to make sure that the monk did advertise the price before I publicly did. He does list the price on his website, so I feel comfortable posting it here. The cost of the entire workshop is $1000 with a $200 deposit to reserve your spot. This includes many days of hands on instruction and a great book over 200 pages long with absolutely NO FLUFF! Every page is valuable information on skill development.

I am more than happy to give you more info on this experience. I will be there to meet anyone who decides to join up. In fact we are kicking off the next one with a $200 set of 9 ball to get things in swing! :thumbup:

Come down and root for me!


Jw

 

[justadub]

Thanks, for the info and for the new link.

 

[JAW725]

Can you compare the Monk's workshop to another instructor's program? I myself find that a private lesson is more beneficial.

 

[poolpro]

Can you compare the Monk's workshop to another instructor's program? I myself find that a private lesson is more beneficial.

I have worked with other great instructors one on one. I understand what you are saying about getting one on one instruction. If you are talking about by the hour, or half a day or so, you may get a bit more done with individual lessons ( and will pay for it!). However, this program being 8 hours a day for 5 days, I think the group dynamic is just what the doctor ordered! It is very difficult to stay focused for the entire time, and it is good to have others involved. There is something about the energy of it that is hard to put into words. At no point did I feel I was being neglected or not given enough attention or something to work on. In fact, quite the opposite is true! There were times that is was almost overwhelming. There is surely no lack of information, guidance, or work to do at any moment. I was actually concerned how we would be able to accomplish all of it by the end of the 5 days, but we did.

I think there are a number of good programs out there. Each with their own strengths and shortcomings. I do believe that the monk has put together a fantastic, comprehensive program that would benefit anyone who wants some help with their game. I also know he is teaching some things that no one else is teaching. I am not meaning this to disrespect any of the other fine instructors or programs out there. If I were given the chance, I would gladly attend other programs as well. One that also appeals to me is Tom Simpson's 3 day program. I have not done it so I cannot compare the two.

The monk does do individual lessons as well. I am pretty sure that it could take you longer and cost much more to cover the same program one on one though. There is something about the shared experience that makes it more fun though. You really feel like you went through a great journey and you have the fellowship of the others who have also gone through it too. It may sound a little silly, but it is how I feel.

Keep in mind that the monk was not the only one giving instruction. There were at least 5 others who were on hand to cover a variety of topics throughout the 5 days. You get PLENTY of one on one time for your game. You are not fighting for a table to play on, or for personal attention. You really feel like he pulled out all the stops to make it the best it could be.


Jw

 

[Scott Lee]

Jason...Good to know you practiced your "routine", so that your "process" was in place enough to be able to benefit the most from this workshop. As I mentioned to you, last fall, it's difficult to compare a 1-day experience (one-on-one) to the multi-day school experience. I'm sure some of the information we convey in pool school, is similar to what Tim teaches (although we don't believe in the "4 Strokes" concept...there is only one stroke; which is used in a lot of different ways). When you say the Monk was teaching things that nobody else teaches, I'd have to take issue with that. Until you have attended other multi-day schools (including ours), you cannot make this broad statement (well, you can, but not with any credibility). Was this school done at the same room you and I worked at? Was there slow-motion, stop-action video analysis on stroke process done (each day)? Glad you enjoyed the school. 5 full days is a lot to take in, and potential students that don't live locally, have to include travel, housing and food costs in the overall cost of the school too (just like with our schools).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I have worked with other great instructors one on one. I understand what you are saying about getting one on one instruction. If you are talking about by the hour, or half a day or so, you may get a bit more done with individual lessons ( and will pay for it!). However, this program being 8 hours a day for 5 days, I think the group dynamic is just what the doctor ordered! It is very difficult to stay focused for the entire time, and it is good to have others involved. There is something about the energy of it that is hard to put into words. At no point did I feel I was being neglected or not given enough attention or something to work on. In fact, quite the opposite is true! There were times that is was almost overwhelming. There is surely no lack of information, guidance, or work to do at any moment. I was actually concerned how we would be able to accomplish all of it by the end of the 5 days, but we did.

I think there are a number of good programs out there. Each with their own strengths and shortcomings. I do believe that the monk has put together a fantastic, comprehensive program that would benefit anyone who wants some help with their game. I also know he is teaching some things that no one else is teaching. I am not meaning this to disrespect any of the other fine instructors or programs out there. If I were given the chance, I would gladly attend other programs as well. One that also appeals to me is Tom Simpson's 3 day program. I have not done it so I cannot compare the two.

The monk does do individual lessons as well. I am pretty sure that it could take you longer and cost much more to cover the same program one on one though. There is something about the shared experience that makes it more fun though. You really feel like you went through a great journey and you have the fellowship of the others who have also gone through it too. It may sound a little silly, but it is how I feel.

Keep in mind that the monk was not the only one giving instruction. There were at least 5 others who were on hand to cover a variety of topics throughout the 5 days. You get PLENTY of one on one time for your game. You are not fighting for a table to play on, or for personal attention. You really feel like he pulled out all the stops to make it the best it could be.


Jw

 

[Blackjack]

Thanks for the link - I am glad to see that Tim is doing well! It was also good to see Preacher Paul teaching and passing on his knowledge - he is a good friend of mine - his knowledge in all aspects of the game are incredible - congrats on winning the tournament!

 

[poolpro]

Jason...Good to know you practiced your "routine", so that your "process" was in place enough to be able to benefit the most from this workshop. As I mentioned to you, last fall, it's difficult to compare a 1-day experience (one-on-one) to the multi-day school experience. I'm sure some of the information we convey in pool school, is similar to what Tim teaches (although we don't believe in the "4 Strokes" concept...there is only one stroke; which is used in a lot of different ways). Was this school done at the same room you and I worked at? Was there slow-motion, stop-action video analysis on stroke process done (each day)? Glad you enjoyed the school. 5 full days is a lot to take in, and potential students that don't live locally, have to include travel, housing and food costs in the overall cost of the school too (just like with our schools).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

Yes it was at the same room. I want to thank you again for all your help. As I said, I am just trying to say that I had a great time and feel I learned quite a bit. I am praising one experience with one teacher/method. I am NOT putting down ANY others.

We did do video stroke analysis. I will say that when you and I worked together it was much more in depth and we REALLY examined each and every detail in a frame by frame approach. We discovered a very slight "hitch" in my stroke that could not have been found any other way. You and I focused solely on stroke mechanics and you are a master at that! I would also highly reccomend your lessons to anyone. When I got good comments about my fundamentals, I gave you the credit!:thumbup:

In fact, I am glad you chimed in, because I have a question for you. The only thing really that was discussed about my mechanics was my long bridge. I know almost every instructor would love to tell me to shorten my bridge, you did not. You said that it was long, but that it is fine, and we went over my personal template. Any further thoughts on this? I understand the benefits to a shorter bridge. If I was showing a new player to shoot, I would ALWAYS teach a shorter brige length to them. In fact, we did have a BCA instructor there as well, and he advised me I should shorten my bridge. I did try it out, but man it would be VERY difficult for me to make a permenant change. One thing that was pointed out is that if you play a lot of pool you may be able to get away with some things, but if you stop playing, or play much less often, then things like that can get you into trouble.

I would still love to make it to the cue tech school, and I think I will someday. This opportinity just kind of fell into my lap. I live about 5 miles from where it was, so it was very convenient and less expensive ( due to no travel costs for me).

I love to learn as much as I can about this game from as many sources as possible. Sometimes there are conflicts between methods, and I have to sort out what works best for me. I am discerning, and do not just become a follower of one teacher or method. I have the bruce lee approach, which is " learn it all. take what is valuable, and discard the rest" There are MANY competing style/methods in martial arts, and he did not advocate a strict following to ant of them. Just my philosophy ( borrowed of course).


I am also very interested in the 4 strokes method, and why you do not endorse it. We covered this in great detail, and I feel there is much to it. I wonder if we are just talking semantics, and are using different terms while saying the same thing.

Anyway, it is great to hear from you.


Jason

 

[poolpro]

Thanks for the link - I am glad to see that Tim is doing well! It was also good to see Preacher Paul teaching and passing on his knowledge - he is a good friend of mine - his knowledge in all aspects of the game are incredible - congrats on winning the tournament!

Yes, he was awesome! Another great teacher.

He showed me a little trick on playing safties that is just PRICELESS! I will never lose that knowledge. I was blown away.


Jw

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I wanted to make sure that the monk did advertise the price before I publicly did. He does list the price on his website, so I feel comfortable posting it here. The cost of the entire workshop is $1000 with a $200 deposit to reserve your spot. This includes many days of hands on instruction and a great book over 200 pages long with absolutely NO FLUFF! Every page is valuable information on skill development.

Well that works out to about $25.00/Hr., on an 8 Hour Day, SEEMS Fair!

 

[Scott Lee]

Jason...Your template is what YOU created. It is a 'natural' way of measuring what you're most comfortable with, and what "fits" your body style. As long as your grip position is consistent with your bridge length, your finish will be the same...and that's the important thing, in learning the "feel" of your stroke process, and ingraining it to the point where you don't have 'think' about it at ALL, while you're actually playing pool. While it is essentially true that a longer bridge may complicate some players' stroke (i.e.: a longer bridge will have the potential to miss where you're aiming, by a hair, if there is anything strange about your backswing, and if you grip the cue too tightly). However, the truth is that we all have a 'comfort level' bridge length...just as we have a "comfort level" grip area. As long as they match up (according to your template), it really doesn't matter that much how long or short they are (within an accepted 'range'). I disagree with the "if you quit playing" idea that was conveyed to you. The basis of long term memory research (think riding a bike, or your 'preshot routine' for a basketball freethrow) suggests that once a defined pattern (mental and physical) has been established, and you practice it correctly, long enough for it to become a REAL habit, you will not forget it...EVER!

As far as the 4 stroke theory...I'd be happy to discuss that with you, away from here. Email me, or call me, and I'll give you my philosophy. Just FYI, much of what Tim teaches is based on things he learned from randyg (just not some the 'stranger' things)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott,

Yes it was at the same room. I want to thank you again for all your help. As I said, I am just trying to say that I had a great time and feel I learned quite a bit. I am praising one experience with one teacher/method. I am NOT putting down ANY others.

We did do video stroke analysis. I will say that when you and I worked together it was much more in depth and we REALLY examined each and every detail in a frame by frame approach. We discovered a very slight "hitch" in my stroke that could not have been found any other way. You and I focused solely on stroke mechanics and you are a master at that! I would also highly reccomend your lessons to anyone. When I got good comments about my fundamentals, I gave you the credit!:thumbup:

In fact, I am glad you chimed in, because I have a question for you. The only thing really that was discussed about my mechanics was my long bridge. I know almost every instructor would love to tell me to shorten my bridge, you did not. You said that it was long, but that it is fine, and we went over my personal template. Any further thoughts on this? I understand the benefits to a shorter bridge. If I was showing a new player to shoot, I would ALWAYS teach a shorter brige length to them. In fact, we did have a BCA instructor there as well, and he advised me I should shorten my bridge. I did try it out, but man it would be VERY difficult for me to make a permenant change. One thing that was pointed out is that if you play a lot of pool you may be able to get away with some things, but if you stop playing, or play much less often, then things like that can get you into trouble.

I would still love to make it to the cue tech school, and I think I will someday. This opportinity just kind of fell into my lap. I live about 5 miles from where it was, so it was very convenient and lees expensive!

I love to learn as much as I can about this game from as many sources as possible. Sometimes there are conflicts between methods, and I have to sort out what works best for me. I am discerning, and do not just become a follower of one teacher or method. I have the bruce lee approach, which is " learn it all. take what is valuable, and discard the rest" There are MANY competing style/methods in martial arts, and he did not advocate a strict following to ant of them. Just my philosophy ( borrowed of course).


I am also very interested in the 4 strokes method, and why you do not endorse it. We covered this in great detail, and I feel there is much to it. I wonder if we are just talking semantics, and are using different terms while saying the same thing.

Anyway, it is great to hear from you.


Jason

 

[poolpro]

Jason...Your template is what YOU created. It is a 'natural' way of measuring what you're most comfortable with, and what "fits" your body style. As long as your grip position is consistent with your bridge length, your finish will be the same...and that's the important thing, in learning the "feel" of your stroke process, and ingraining it to the point where you don't have 'think' about it at ALL, while you're actually playing pool. While it is essentially true that a longer bridge may complicate some players' stroke (i.e.: a longer bridge will have the potential to miss where you're aiming, by a hair, if there is anything strange about your backswing, and if you grip the cue too tightly). However, the truth is that we all have a 'comfort level' bridge length...just as we have a "comfort level" grip area. As long as they match up (according to your template), it really doesn't matter that much how long or short they are (within an accepted 'range'). I disagree with the "if you quit playing" idea that was conveyed to you. The basis of long term memory research (think riding a bike, or your 'preshot routine' for a basketball freethrow) suggests that once a defined pattern (mental and physical) has been established, and you practice it correctly, long enough for it to become a REAL habit, you will not forget it...EVER!

As far as the 4 stroke theory...I'd be happy to discuss that with you, away from here. Email me, or call me, and I'll give you my philosophy. Just FYI, much of what Tim teaches is based on things he learned from randyg (just not some the 'stranger' things)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Okay, thanks very much for your response. I do feel a better about keeping my bridge at least for now. And yes I see a lot of stuff is based from the BCA program, I don't think tim would deny that.

Thanks again for all your help. And I will follow up later for that discussion! I am interested to know your thoughts.


Jason