just got addicted to pool, need help

[Drew]

This is a joke right. You've been playing for 3 months and you're putting down Buddy Hall and Ronnie O'Sullivan. You don't think they've played pool on a 6ft table? Amazing. Now you're woried about looking good at the table? I don't care how "street" a stroke may look, if you can only run 3 balls, you look bad.

Jim

Agreed. I imagine that if God played pool, he'd look a lot like Mr. Hall. And as far as snooker goes, Jimmy White, hands down, has the most beautiful stroke I've ever seen.

If you want to get better eliminate spin. Start shooting with nothing but follow and stun. Then learn draw and drag-draw. Then learn english and throw.

I'm not trying to lecture you, dangerous, but for now. Forget the girls, forget what you look like at the table. Focus on making balls. Trust me, this is much more impressive than a "street" stroke. Although lessons from Max Eberle will help you a lot, there are other less accomplished guys out there who will help just as much at this stage. You don't need Derek Jeter to teach you how to throw a ball. Why would you need Jose Parica to teach you how to stroke? And when you start getting your century breaks, then you can tell Ronnie O'Sullivan how stiff he is.

 

[Drew]

JIM, hey buddy, totally not even thinking about putting down anyone, you misunderstood. I think 3 months into it is when one needs to figure out the direction one needs to go. my biggest fear is having to relearn stuff after things become second nature. so now i need to decide whose technique i'm after. I'm not even talking about the legends like Buddy Hall, or not even a pro. anyone who can break and run out has my respect. I'm definetely not puting down "snooker" style, tons of rookie snooker style players can destroy me on any table, i'm just trying to figure out which style is best for me.

Well you got this in while I was typing. You gotta do what feels comfortable yet is effective. Buddy Hall has that perfectly straight stroke while Efren has the sloppier "windmill" type. But you'll notice that the tip of their cues have the same motion. Straight is the key. You're cue should never move side to side or up and down excessively.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Drew, actually what happened is this dude was being really "drunk" and loud and screaming and playing a drunk. and he used a house cue which really why i played him for money. but when he was leaving he was all of a sudden totally sober. He also took 5 bucks from four other regulars i found out later. and he told me if i win i get $15 if i loose he gets $5. then when he was leaving the dude that came with him, a total beginner, gave him his cue back so the dude was using a house cue on purpose to reel me in. i don't regret it, it was fun and totally worth it just wish i could win next time around 'cause the boys in the bar treated me like their mini hero, you know how it is.

as far as being cocky i think it's totally part of the game, i appear very confident when i shoot regardless of who i'm playing or how i'm playing. i think it's a good thing, it actually somehow helps me pocket the balls. but after the game regardless of outcome i give my respect to the opponent. always. i don't make enemies

You seem to more interested in looking cool while playing than playing properly. If you try to mimick the stroke of the filipinos you will probably do it wrong and end up worse off. The loopy strokes you see many great players performing are natural movements for them. Just bring the cue straight back and straight forward.

Secondly your too new to be cocky, so I would cut that out. Players with that attitude start thinking that they can beat anyone, even when they can't. If you come up against a very good player who is not running out every rack, you might begin thinking that you can beat him, and then end up broke. I've broken a few cocky players this way.

 

[sjm]

i've been playing seriously for 3 months now and have a few questions. i have a feeling there are a few players on this board who know what they are doing.

Last week this "drunk" dude hustled me for $5. he broke - nothing in but cue ball on the rail. I made a really hard shot, then missed and he ran out. looking at his stroke and the shots he was making in knew he was definetely better than me. after the game i politely looked him in the eyes and with plenty of confidence said "let's do another one for $50". He declined. I said $40. He declined and left the bar. I just want to be ready for next time when my bluff doesn't work and the hustler says yes. btw i'm not rich, just a little cocky sometimes

so my questions are:
i'm looking for a REALLY good player in hollywood, CA area to take some private lessons from. i don't care if he/she is a great instructor i'm looking for a great player.

I'm pleased to learn that pool is offering you some fulfillment, but, with due respect, you need a complete attitude transplant.

Your goal is to find a sucker to buy into what you call your bluff . that means you have the mentality of a hustler.

You don't want to learn from good instructors, only from good players, regardless of teaching capability. Do you want to meet top players or learn how to play?

Slow down and re-evaluate, for you are on the wrong path here.

 

[renard]

i use a predator cue, have no idea about its weight, i bought it for $480 on ebay, it goes for around $800 online. it's the older model. i think it's good enough for now. ??

my goals are to finally break and run for the first time (either on bar table or real table), to finally win at least one game for money, and enter my first competition that's not in a bar (i wouldn't know where to sign up). i know you're thinking i'm not ready but i don't mind losing in the beginning, i just want to play. And I learn super fast.

my other question is when the white ball is on the rail and i'm shooting the 8 ball - straight shot - do i a) hit it really soft so i don't scratch. b) apply a little top left or right c) attemp to draw (don't know if that's possible)

and lastly, totally out of curiosity, after watching and studing too many youtube videos if efren reyes went against allison fisher who would you have your money on?

Question #1) That cue is fine for a long time. No problems there.

Question #2)
A) Practice is needed. Try this drill another AZ'er posted before. Spread out 7 solids and the eightball and run them. If your successful once or twice add a stripe to the mix. If successful again add another srtipe to the mix (for 2 total stripes) and so on.

B) Also being a sweater of games in which excellent players are playing helps in your decision making. From the beginning break see if the oncoming player chooses the same first shot as you. If he does, pat yourself on the back. If he doesn't try and figure out why he did what he did.

Do the same thing for every shot. Pay attention to position you would like for yourself compared to what he leaves for himself on a given shot.

Question 3) Practice this shot!!! Then you can tell us! Use every option available and find the most consistent shot.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Welcome!

I predict you will become a very good player. You have lot of questions and learning/practicing these things will give you an advantage over the next player.

So "Learn all you can!"

There is a lot of "brain power" on this forum. I would suggest asking specific questions, ask one question at a time, and put the topic in the title. Like: How to avoid scratching on 8? (For a title.) Then you will get all sorts of advice on that one specific topic.

And when you ask questions, I assure you there are plenty of others here who want to know the same things. Or may know a little and reading the answers to your question will give them more knowledge. Anyway there is no such thing as a dumb question here, so ask away!

So far as getting to where you can break and run...

1. You need a good break which spreads the balls evenly all over the table. No clusters, and leaves the cue ball in the central area of the table. And of course make at least one ball. With the cue ball left in the center of the table (and playing BCA open after break rules), you will more likely have a shot at a solid or a stripe. This can mean the difference between being able to run out or not. Note that I have been working on my break for 2 years and am still not happy with it! I can get a good spread, but cue ball not in center of table. Or get cue ball in center of table, but there are some clusters. Or as I frequently do, get a good spread - no clusters, cue ball central area of table, but don't make a ball on the break! Arrggg! (Some things take a long time to work on.) Also I break with the cue ball in the center of the table and shoot below center on the cue ball. Try to get the cue ball to come straight back after your break. Everytime.

2. Being able to run out. This is speed control (shoot at an exact speed to get cue ball to stop where you want after hit), 30/90 degree rules, learning about using english and squirt (cue ball deflection, low deflection cues, backhand/fronthand english, etc.), follow, stun (stop shot), draw, etc. For now I would suggest NOT using english (hitting side of cue ball), but use follow, stop - stun, and draw to leave the cue ball for your next shot. Also get the following DVD which will teach you how to avoid scratching with the 30 and 90 degree rules...

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards...
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/cd_dvd/dvd_description.html

Get this video on how to run out with 8-ball...
(The Art of 8-Ball by Jimmy Reid)
http://www.poolvideo.com/pv250.htm

So far as the miscues, I see you have a Predator cue. Predator says to use a dime shaped tip...
See shape your tip...
http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_tech_tips.html

Get dime shaped shaping tool here...
http://www.excel.net/~mniver/products.html

I use a Moori (pig skin) hard dime shaped tip. I lightly scuff it with the dime shaped sandpaper shaping tool after about every 8 hours of play. I chalk before EVERY shot, especially around the edges of the tip.

The tip is the business end of the cue. Price is no object for the best tip. I take good care of my tip! Chalk well, especially around edges of tip before each shot. After chalking, examine tip under light. Any dark spots? If yes, chalk again. If still dark spots, lightly scuff tip with dime shaped sandpaper shaping tool. The tip with chalk on it should look "pretty"! A nice smooth even coating of chalk all the same color like brand new carpeting.

Then stroke....

Find the best instructor in your area and take lessons on stroke. The best instructor might not be the best player! But ask the best players who the best instructor is. If several say the same person, that is it!

A bit of advice... Work on one thing at a time. Say follow shots. Maybe work on that for a few months and get very good at that one thing. Then move on to something else. Also practice what you are not good at. If you miss a shot, set up that same shot and practice it over and over. 100 times if necessary.

For runout practice, you need to be able to run 3 balls! After learning the 30 and 90 degree rules, follow, stun, and draw, then throw 3 balls on the table. Take ball-in-hand with the cue ball and place it anywhere you want. Shoot the first ball in so you leave the cue ball in a good spot to shoot in the second ball AND after shooting in the second ball, you will be able to leave the cue ball for an easy shot on the 3rd ball.

This is not easy. Got to know where the cue ball will go after your shot, use the 30/90 degree rules, follow, stun, and draw, to get the cue ball to go where you want, and be able to shoot with the exact speed (speed control) to get the cue ball to stop where you need it. This can take years to learn, but again, work on one thing at a time...

 

[cuejoey]

If your miscueing alot try a cue with a 13 mm shaft/tip..then practice those hard shots over and over again.good luck

 

[Billy_Bob]

A couple more tips...

Drum this into your head and say this to yourself BEFORE every shot...

Where will the cue ball go after this shot?

Where will the cue ball go after this shot?

Where will the cue ball go after this shot?

(After a few years of doing this, you will know where it will go!)

Another tip. I had a very difficult time geting this through my thick head when first learning for some reason....

What goes forward will hit the rail and come back!

If you want the cue ball to come backwards for your next shot, many times you can instead go forward, the cue ball will hit the rail, then come back!

Watch other people play. Many times after they shoot in a ball, the cue ball rolls forward, hits the rail, then dies. But it was heading in a direction which would have left them an easy shot on their next ball. If they had hit it a little harder or used more follow, they would have been able to continue their run.

Or they hit it too hard. The cue ball continues forward, hits the rail, then goes to a spot for an easy shot on their next ball, but it keeps rolling!

Many times people do not "think" about where the cue ball will go after their shot.

Where will the cue ball go after this shot?

 

[TheConArtist]

First off, i have to say some really great advice in this thread. For the question on the cueball on the rail and the eight straight in. My advice to you here is any time the cueball is on the rail, always make shure you hit as must as of the center of the cueball you can, as you can only hit the top of the cueball. Personally Speaking. This is actually a drill i use to get me warm'd up. As when i know i can pocket a straight in shot half that was about half a table, i know i am in stroke. Of course the shot can be different and you must just take the option of using english not to follow it in, or slow rolling (pocket speed). Allison Fisher shoots this shot so great as her fundamentals are so solid. The shot where the cueball is frozen to the rail and the shot is straight in and you must get down to the other end of the table. Where you can jack up and draw the cueball back to the rail and come out to the center of the table. I know when i jack up the cue i ain't really comfortable, i can tell you that

Secondly your too new to be cocky, so I would cut that out. Players with that attitude start thinking that they can beat anyone, even when they can't. If you come up against a very good player who is not running out every rack, you might begin thinking that you can beat him, and then end up broke. I've broken a few cocky players this way.

Hey Cameron, i love your post here. Its so true as i can somewhat relate, as not for breaking my opponent though. Just last night a friend of myne that plays in a different league then my own. Wanted me to come and play for them as this is my third time subbing in for his team. But its there tournament now, and the number one team is there first match up. All you have to do is play twice or be a sub twice to play in the tournament at the end of the year. So i go as he wants to win against this team, as one player he said was cocky, not that but a poorsportsman. He only had two losses the whole year.

What was weird about there set up was it was only Three Rounds and you can match up anyone you want, they didn't go by averages. So he matched me up to play with him in one of three rounds. I played so smart, and basically played my game. Of course i was nervous, but i wanted to see who was the better player. I was one who was never cocky, as it can fall back on you and you must back it up, but was confindent. I won the match not with a break and run but smart play and run. I seen from his first match he was the type of player who broke them as hard as he can and hoped to have a good table, but if not, he still went from the run out. I learned from getting my butt handed to me by a really good player in a tournament a few weeks ago. Was that he played the table, and not me and won each time in our race to three.

He and his team were upset as we didn't even have to play our last two game of our third round. Again guys a great thread and great posts

 

[smokeandapancak]

forget all of this hubbabubba BS...keep up the worries about how your stroke looks in the "bar scene"...the image is the most important thing ya know...pool players get chicks, dont'cha ya know!!!

and by all means, please please keep blufifng the dude that just run a table against you..(Mr. 3 ball run)..someday i might be the one that profits off of that ego fueled foul!!!!

 

[Takumi4G63]

Since you're in SoCal, I would recommend going to Hard Times Bellflower a lot and trying to play with and learn from some of the players there. Just do not gamble very much, because that place is filled with champions. For $20 you can play with some of the best in California every week.

 

[dangerous]

BROKE AND RAN OUT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. after practicing for almost 4 hours today it finally happened. it felt really good but i know i made tons of mistakes 'cause i was shooting too many long hard shots. i think once i'm ready it'll get easier. the last shot was the hardest one couldn't decide if i should try to bank or cut, ended up cutting and proud to say i didn't choke. next time i'll tape it and maybe post the video here for more tips, don't know if the administrators will allow that. and thanks so much to everyone with your valuable input, especially Billy.

 

[Drew]

BROKE AND RAN OUT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. after practicing for almost 4 hours today it finally happened. it felt really good but i know i made tons of mistakes 'cause i was shooting too many long hard shots. i think once i'm ready it'll get easier. the last shot was the hardest one couldn't decide if i should try to bank or cut, ended up cutting and proud to say i didn't choke. next time i'll tape it and maybe post the video here for more tips, don't know if the administrators will allow that. and thanks so much to everyone with your valuable input, especially Billy.

Now you're just bringing back memories. My first break and run was in a tournament and definitely an accident. I still can't believe the amazingly lucky shot I made. And then the even more amazingly lucky shot. Very strange breakout shot and then a 2 rail kick 8 ball in the side. Congrats dude, keep it up.

 

[Billy_Bob]

BROKE AND RAN OUT TODAY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. after practicing for almost 4 hours today it finally happened. it felt really good but i know i made tons of mistakes 'cause i was shooting too many long hard shots. i think once i'm ready it'll get easier. the last shot was the hardest one couldn't decide if i should try to bank or cut, ended up cutting and proud to say i didn't choke. next time i'll tape it and maybe post the video here for more tips, don't know if the administrators will allow that. and thanks so much to everyone with your valuable input, especially Billy.

See, I said you were going to be a good player...

However I didn't expect you to do this in one day!

Good Work and congratulations!

Be sure to reward yourself whenever you have a new achievement like this. Buy yourself a steak dinner, celebrate with a friend, get yourself a candy bar, whatever. Does not need to be expensive.

Also you don't necessarily need to win to have a new achievement. Maybe there is a particular shot you have been working on for months, then you shoot this shot in a tournament and make it, but lose the match. It is still something to celebrate that you made that shot in a match. So celebrate your hard work finally paying off!

So far as banking or making a cut shot, someone once told me to "Always cut instead of banking if you have the choice." Best advice I ever got!

To determine if you can cut a ball in, draw a line from the object ball to the pocket. Then another line 90 degrees to that line. If the cue ball is outside the 90 degree line, it is possible to cut the object ball into the pocket. If inside the line, not possible.

Banking is a low percentage shot. Cut shots are higher percentage (more likely to make a cut shot than a bank shot).

Here is a diagram with the basic idea of this. Ball A is inside the 90 degree line. Ball B is outside the line...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BVlG3PObk3QRUf3RPYS3VVlG3VcQs3kObk3kbiS@

 

[BlackDragon]

..cutting instead of banking? Sometimes a cut provides an opportunity for the cueball to find a pocket with its speed. Banks don't do that and they are deadly for position......the moneys in the bank but you do need your cut.

 

[Fatboy]

i've been playing seriously for 3 months now and have a few questions. i have a feeling there are a few players on this board who know what they are doing.

my level: i can consistenly pocket 3 or 4 balls. If I really focus I can run 5 balls pretty consistently on a bar table. I've ran 6 or 7 balls in a raw plenty of times but I have never broke and ran out on a big table nor a bar table. I mostly play at bars and practice in pool halls. I usually think ahead 2 or 3 moves and spin the cue ball a lot to set up the next shot. I'm very comfortable with drawing/playing from the top. I'm only interested in 8 ball for now. I play every single day. my stroke looks/feels very nice and relaxed. I try copying filipino gods from youtube.

i use a predator cue, have no idea about its weight, i bought it for $480 on ebay, it goes for around $800 online. it's the older model. i think it's good enough for now. ?? but i do miscue a lot maybe it's due to the fact that the tip is much smaller on mine than on the house cue.

i've played a bunch of $5 - $15 dollar games at bars with random people. I have never won yet. I also usually play a $5 entry fee bar tournament against about 30 people. I hear from competitors that i'm one of the best at the bar but i've never won the entire thing.

my goals are to finally break and run for the first time (either on bar table or real table), to finally win at least one game for money, and enter my first competition that's not in a bar (i wouldn't know where to sign up). i know you're thinking i'm not ready but i don't mind losing in the beginning, i just want to play. And I learn super fast.

last week this "drunk" dude hustled me for $5. he broke - nothing in but cue ball on the rail. I made a really hard shot, then missed and he ran out. looking at his stroke and the shots he was making in knew he was definetely better than me. after the game i politely looked him in the eyes and with plenty of confidence said "let's do another one for $50". He declined. I said $40. He declined and left the bar. I just want to be ready for next time when my bluff doesn't work and the hustler says yes. btw i'm not rich, just a little cocky sometimes

so my questions are:
i'm looking for a REALLY good player in hollywood, CA area to take some private lessons from. i don't care if he/she is a great instructor i'm looking for a great player. Someone on this board listed

Jose Parica
Ernesto Dominguez
Morro Paez
Dave Hemma
Marshall Jung

as the best but i couldn't find their contact info online plus i don't know if any of them teach.

my other question is when the white ball is on the rail and i'm shooting the 8 ball - straight shot - do i a) hit it really soft so i don't scratch. b) apply a little top left or right c) attemp to draw (don't know if that's possible)

and lastly, totally out of curiosity, after watching and studing too many youtube videos if efren reyes went against allison fisher who would you have your money on?

first things first, relax.

Efren and those guys have played with that style for ever, longer than some of us have been alive, there is something in the water over there that aint here, i have NEVER seen in 22 years a white boy use that stroke. I wish we had that water they are amazing, I have said for years Efren is the greatest player ever to walk the earth. But they have something we dont, let it be and God bless them.

Tang Hoa is a great instructor, he breaks things down and works on one weakness at a time, this way his clients arnt overwhelmed with too much information which can lead to confusion, no offence but that seems like where your at now, he can sort it out-he is a pro and knows what order to put things in to get you on track. I have taken lessions from him so I know this first hand. He is more interested in you playing well than making the $$$, that might be hard to believe but compaired to what he makes in action the $$$ for lessions is tip $$$. The reason is because when he improves a clients game alot its good for his reputation and thats important to any pro and his pool room he represents, he has good ethics. He works with what you have he dosent try and re-invent the wheel or waste your time. The $$$ your gambling would be much better spent with Tang. Call Hollywood Billiards and set something up.