just got Stroketrianer, upcoming review

sponge bob

sponge bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello everybody,

I just got a stroketrainer and will be using it daily as stated in the instructions. However, I will be doing more strokes, about 200 a day. I will let you guys know if my game improves within the next few weeks/months. Just so you have an idea of my current game, I consider myself a very inconsistent C, going down to a C- up to a C+. Right now I can run out a very easy rack of 9 ball about 70% of the time. Now, if you drop a problem in the mix I can only run out about 20% of the time.

On another note, I am also working on a few other issues in my game. I am trying to adjust my stance so that my right shoulder ( Im a righty) is directly over the cue along with my elbow. I am also trying to figure out why my aiming is off. As an example, if I am making a 15 degree cut to a pocket that is to the left of me, I have to "aim" for a straight hit (0 degree) to actually make it. In other words I always have to aim to the left on the OB of where I think I should. This might have something to do with the change in my stance. My point is that if I do improve my game, it might be due to the new alignment, stroketrainer, or both.
Thanks, Asgar
 
sponge bob said:
Hello everybody,

(snip)

On another note, I am also working on a few other issues in my game. I am trying to adjust my stance so that my right shoulder ( Im a righty) is directly over the cue along with my elbow. I am also trying to figure out why my aiming is off. As an example, if I am making a 15 degree cut to a pocket that is to the left of me, I have to "aim" for a straight hit (0 degree) to actually make it. In other words I always have to aim to the left on the OB of where I think I should. This might have something to do with the change in my stance. My point is that if I do improve my game, it might be due to the new alignment, stroketrainer, or both.
Thanks, Asgar
Click to expand...

Is your head level? When adjusting your stance, this becomes critical, imho.

Jeff Livingston
 
I have one, and I think it helped me in 2 ways. One is obvious, another maybe not so.

First, it helped me feel what a straight stroke felt like without the extra distraction of hitting/pocketing balls. I could feel which muscles were being used, and it helped me stop using muscles that shouldn't be doing anything (wrist curling).

Second, and this was kinda surprising to me, I think it helped me a lot in learning how to address the CB in a stance which allows a straight stroke. Stepping in and aligning while using the ST reinforced the proper* way to get down over the shot.

After I use it for a while, I turn it around and try to stroke between the uprights freehand right away. I think that also helps with learning, and doesn't let you get dependent of having the guide plate to stay in line.

*Proper only means that it works for me, and may not be some textbook example.
 
As an Instructor, I encorporated the Stroke Trainer into my training outline. My students find it very usefull in bringing out the alignment problem in their stance and stroke. They are able to feel a proper stroke (straight and consistent), which helps them to remember that feeling when not using the Stroke Trainer.
Two (2) things I recommend:
1) Don't do a lot of strokes for a long period of time at one stance. Maybe 25 strokes, then stand up to give your body a chance to relax the muscles, then drop back down and do another 25. Continue this untill you reach your stroke count goal per training session.
2) Every other day switch hands. With your "other" hand decrease your stroke count goal by 50%. This will keep the frustration to a minimum.

I can almost guarentee 100%, if you do this for 10 days, 5 days each hand, about 100-200 strokes per day, you WILL SEE MAJOR IMPROVEMENT in your game stroke (if you're mentally prepared).

Best of luck! Contact me if you have any questions, I might be able to assist you with them!

Zim
 
Thanks Zim, I appreciate the help.

About the head thing, my head was actually cocked a little after I changed my stance. I noticed it and straitened it out.

Thanks, Asgar
 
Stroke Trainer

sponge bob said:
Hello everybody,

I just got a stroketrainer and will be using it daily as stated in the instructions. However, I will be doing more strokes, about 200 a day. I will let you guys know if my game improves within the next few weeks/months. Just so you have an idea of my current game, I consider myself a very inconsistent C, going down to a C- up to a C+. Right now I can run out a very easy rack of 9 ball about 70% of the time. Now, if you drop a problem in the mix I can only run out about 20% of the time.

On another note, I am also working on a few other issues in my game. I am trying to adjust my stance so that my right shoulder ( Im a righty) is directly over the cue along with my elbow. I am also trying to figure out why my aiming is off. As an example, if I am making a 15 degree cut to a pocket that is to the left of me, I have to "aim" for a straight hit (0 degree) to actually make it. In other words I always have to aim to the left on the OB of where I think I should. This might have something to do with the change in my stance. My point is that if I do improve my game, it might be due to the new alignment, stroketrainer, or both.
Thanks, Asgar
Click to expand...

A CUE STICK DOES NOT AIM ANY TYPE OF SHOT. THE ONLY THING THAT POCKETS BALLS IS IS AN ACCURATE AND CONSISTENT LINE-UP OF CUE BALL TO OBJECT BALL. A STROKE TRAINER IS OF NO USE WHATEVER. STROKE TRAINERS DO NOT POCKET BALLS. AS FAR AS TRYING TO DEVELOP A STRAIGHT STROKE OF THE CUE, CONSULT NICK VARNER'S STROKE. HE HAS THE WORST STROKE IN POOL. IN HIS BACK STROKE HE BRINGS THE CUE AWAY FROM HIS BODY, THEN ON THE FORWARD STROKE HE BRINGS IT INTO HIS BODY. HIS STROKE DESCRIBES THE ARC OF A BANANA. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADOPT HIS STROKE, NO. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE HIS GAME? YES.

HE KNOWS HE HAS THAT BANANA STROKE, BUT HE IS SMART ENOUGH TO IGNORE IT. NO GOOD STROKE POCKETS BALLS! NO BAD STROKE POCKETS BALLS!.

I HAVE READ A LOT OF POSTS ON THIS FORUM, AND EVERY PLAYER HERE HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING HOW TO ACCURATELY AND CONSISTENTLY ALIGN CUE BALL TO OBJECT BALL FOR EVERY SHOT. TRYING TO PLAY TOP POOL CANNOT BE DONE WITH GHOST BALL, CONTACT POINTS, OR DECIDING HOW THICK OR THIN TO CUT BALLS. IT ALSO CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT A PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEM. THERE ARE THREE. "CENTER TO EDGE" THREE LINES" "PIECE TO CENTER, HALF, & EDGE"

GUY
 
Running Out

sponge bob said:
Hello everybody,

I just got a stroketrainer and will be using it daily as stated in the instructions. However, I will be doing more strokes, about 200 a day. I will let you guys know if my game improves within the next few weeks/months. Just so you have an idea of my current game, I consider myself a very inconsistent C, going down to a C- up to a C+. Right now I can run out a very easy rack of 9 ball about 70% of the time. Now, if you drop a problem in the mix I can only run out about 20% of the time.

On another note, I am also working on a few other issues in my game. I am trying to adjust my stance so that my right shoulder ( Im a righty) is directly over the cue along with my elbow. I am also trying to figure out why my aiming is off. As an example, if I am making a 15 degree cut to a pocket that is to the left of me, I have to "aim" for a straight hit (0 degree) to actually make it. In other words I always have to aim to the left on the OB of where I think I should. This might have something to do with the change in my stance. My point is that if I do improve my game, it might be due to the new alignment, stroketrainer, or both.
Thanks, Asgar
Click to expand...

ACCUSTATS SAYS THAT PROFESSIONALS (AVERAGE) RUNNING OUT 30 PERCENT OF THE TIME. YOU (AVERAGE ) 70 PERCENT OF THE TIME. I FIND THAT VERY HARD TO BELIEVE.

GUY
 
guygrandmont said:
ACCUSTATS SAYS THAT PROFESSIONALS (AVERAGE) RUNNING OUT 30 PERCENT OF THE TIME. YOU (AVERAGE ) 70 PERCENT OF THE TIME. I FIND THAT VERY HARD TO BELIEVE.

GUY
Click to expand...
I think he means after he pocketed a ball on the breaks and has a clean shot on the lowest numbered ball.
I believe the pros runout around 85% with ball in hand on the 1-ball.
Around 20% to runout off the break ( scratches, dry breaks, pushout, no shot and safes being considered ). Around 1 in 5.
9 ball in the break is a 3% proposition IIRC.
 
guygrandmont said:
A CUE STICK DOES NOT AIM ANY TYPE OF SHOT. THE ONLY THING THAT POCKETS BALLS IS IS AN ACCURATE AND CONSISTENT LINE-UP OF CUE BALL TO OBJECT BALL. A STROKE TRAINER IS OF NO USE WHATEVER. STROKE TRAINERS DO NOT POCKET BALLS. AS FAR AS TRYING TO DEVELOP A STRAIGHT STROKE OF THE CUE, CONSULT NICK VARNER'S STROKE. HE HAS THE WORST STROKE IN POOL. IN HIS BACK STROKE HE BRINGS THE CUE AWAY FROM HIS BODY, THEN ON THE FORWARD STROKE HE BRINGS IT INTO HIS BODY. HIS STROKE DESCRIBES THE ARC OF A BANANA. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADOPT HIS STROKE, NO. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE HIS GAME? YES.

HE KNOWS HE HAS THAT BANANA STROKE, BUT HE IS SMART ENOUGH TO IGNORE IT. NO GOOD STROKE POCKETS BALLS! NO BAD STROKE POCKETS BALLS!.

I HAVE READ A LOT OF POSTS ON THIS FORUM, AND EVERY PLAYER HERE HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING HOW TO ACCURATELY AND CONSISTENTLY ALIGN CUE BALL TO OBJECT BALL FOR EVERY SHOT. TRYING TO PLAY TOP POOL CANNOT BE DONE WITH GHOST BALL, CONTACT POINTS, OR DECIDING HOW THICK OR THIN TO CUT BALLS. IT ALSO CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT A PROFESSIONAL AIMING SYSTEM. THERE ARE THREE. "CENTER TO EDGE" THREE LINES" "PIECE TO CENTER, HALF, & EDGE"

GUY
Click to expand...

Guy I am not sure how to respond to this as alot of the training aids for the novice are benificial.I must though agree to a point about a stroke of a player.I have seen a couple players kill their game by "straightening out their stroke" Some of the best old school players when in cash games do resort when loose to a banna type of stroke and it seems to work for them.My brother had a banna type stroke and not too many would play him without some serious weight.I must disagree and agree on this one.I think a very experienced player should leave their stroke alone if it works.I think for the Novice training aids may be a posotive.For the person who posted this thread have you had any instructors take a looksee at what your doing?I would start there before I started buying gadgets to help.I think Efrin uses a loose wild stroke sometimes.Must be the tip :D
 
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JoeyInCali said:
I think he means after he pocketed a ball on the breaks and has a clean shot on the lowest numbered ball.
I believe the pros runout around 85% with ball in hand on the 1-ball.
Around 20% to runout off the break ( scratches, dry breaks, pushout, no shot and safes being considered ). Around 1 in 5.
9 ball in the break is a 3% proposition IIRC.
Click to expand...

No C player can run out even the easiest rack of 9-ball 70% of the time. More like 10%.
 
excessknowledge said:
Guy I am not sure how to respond to this as alot of the training aids for the novice are benificial.I must though agree to a point about a stroke of a player.I have seen a couple players kill their game by "straightening out their stroke" Some of the best old school players when in cash games do resort when loose to a banna type of stroke and it seems to work for them.My brother had a banna type stroke and not too many would play him without some serious weight.I must disagree and agree on this one.I think a very experienced player should leave their stroke alone if it works.I think for the Novice training aids may be a posotive.For the person who posted this thread have you had any instructors take a looksee at what your doing?I would start there before I started buying gadgets to help.I think Efrin uses a loose wild stroke sometimes.Must be the tip :D
Click to expand...

The backstroke is irrelevant as long as your cue is straight on the forward stroke. Those people who "straightened" out their strokes but got worse probably thought they had straight strokes but didn't. Even if you are slightly crooked on the forward stroke it throws you way off. Aiming systems are great, but if you can't shoot straight they don't do anything for you. When you have a perfect stroke pocketing balls becomes cake. The people who disagree with that are probably people who have never experienced a straight stroke, how it 'feels', and how it has a huge positive effect on your concentration, confidence, and aim.
 
LastTwo said:
The backstroke is irrelevant as long as your cue is straight on the forward stroke. Those people who "straightened" out their strokes but got worse probably thought they had straight strokes but didn't. Even if you are slightly crooked on the forward stroke it throws you way off. Aiming systems are great, but if you can't shoot straight they don't do anything for you. When you have a perfect stroke pocketing balls becomes cake. The people who disagree with that are probably people who have never experienced a straight stroke, how it 'feels', and how it has a huge positive effect on your concentration, confidence, and aim.
Click to expand...

Oh to have a straight stroke is Ideal and reliable for Consistancy hugh?I have a straight stroke and I did disagree per experience of what I have seen.I am not trying to open up a can of worms but this is a subject that comes up alot.Ralph Greenleaf and Ervin Crain odd strokes to the so called banna stroke and side stroke from time to time as does Efrin.I Guess what your saying is that these guys and others are incorrect and inconsistant?They were unaware of a straight stroke?Listen we can go down the list of things people do wrong and look at the pros and see the sight lines off and the cue to the right and whatnot.Stance incorrect and bridge loose.Seems they do well.I think yes there is a basic format that is ideal.I also think that many players hurt themselves by trying to do what is so called "The proper way".If a guy can run 50 or 75 balls in straight pool are you gonna run up to that player and tell him he is incorrect because he has a slip stroke or a banna stroke?He or she is standing wrong?If so I know a few and I am sure you will be asking them for weight while you tell them what they are doing wrong.Yes there is a basic format but I also think YES do what is comfortable and works for you also.Like I said training devices are good to a point but I think the guy needs to see and experienced trainer prior to buying all the gizmos.A trainer will be able to properly evaluate what this person needs.THEN if the trainer suggests what is it this time oh "strokemaster" then thats what the guy should use.I mean Mosconi had a strokemaster did he not?I am sorry I am a strong beleaver in teching and I think teachers are your best investment.To be honest with you I think the shooters nowdays with all the fancy cues and gizmos are nothing near the strength of the shooters of long ago that had wood and a piece of leather glued or nailed yes nailed on the cue.The older shooters learned by being tought by teachers not gizmos.
 
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Just my opinion, but I think a so-called proper stroke in pool can be compared to shooting a basketball. When your young and learning the game you are taught where your arm and wrist and such should be placed.However everyone develops their own style that's comfortable for them after a while. There's alot of NBA players that don't have textbook jumpshots just as there's alot of pro pool players that don't have textbook strokes. Whatever stroke you find that helps you play the best should be the one you stick with, whether it's "fundamentally correct" or not.
 
sponge bob said:
Thanks Zim, I appreciate the help.

About the head thing, my head was actually cocked a little after I changed my stance. I noticed it and straitened it out.

Thanks, Asgar
Click to expand...

After I posted the head advice, I got to thinking about Sponge Bob. If he moves his head, isn't he really moving his whole upper body? :D

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
After I posted the head advice, I got to thinking about Sponge Bob. If he moves his head, isn't he really moving his whole upper body? :D

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Took a second but your right taptaptap..............
 
Opie said:
There's alot of NBA players that don't have textbook jumpshots just as there's alot of pro pool players that don't have textbook strokes. .
Click to expand...

Opie,
The quality of NBA shooting is horrifically bad in general. Our failure to medal in the last Olympics was NOT an aberrancy, but rather a reflection of our very poor fundamentals. Yes, you can make up for poor fundamentals with repetition (or with tall, athletic, dunking machines); but wouldn't it be easier for beginning players to take lessons and develop good fundamentals from the start? Do we really want to shoot free throws like Shaq just because he is a successful pro???

If I was a professional pool player, I would be insulted to be compared to the average NBA player. In a recent Pacers/Pistons game the Pacers missed 15 shots in a row, in a previous game the Pistons had missed 13 shots in a row. The sport is almost unwatchable by true team basketball fans (what is so exciting about dunks anyway??). JMO
 
Opie said:
Just my opinion, but I think a so-called proper stroke in pool can be compared to shooting a basketball.
Click to expand...


That isn't my opinion...they aren't comparable at all. In pool you're shooting from a very stationary position with nothing moving except from your elbow to your fingers. (unless you're Mike Davis...then it moves from the shoulder down) In basketball, everything is moving, jumping, twisting and turning as you shoot.

I think the only game that is comparable would be darts. Everything is stationary except from the elbow down and you're shooting for a very, very small spot or area as in the OB. There are still different styles of aiming and throwing in darts as in pool.
Oooops...I mentioned that dirty word again...aiming. I guess the esoteric aiming system applies there also...if you need a triple 20 or whatever, just let it happen and fire away. You'll nail that sucker every time. :rolleyes:
 
drivermaker said:
That isn't my opinion...they aren't comparable at all. In pool you're shooting from a very stationary position with nothing moving except from your elbow to your fingers. (unless you're Mike Davis...then it moves from the shoulder down) In basketball, everything is moving, jumping, twisting and turning as you shoot.

:
Click to expand...
I think he meant Freethrow shooting. :D
Freethrow shooting is comparable.
Place your right leg directly in front of the rim ( if you have the rim in the middle of your body, you're shooting across ).
Elbow and wrist in line. As little movement with the upper arm the shoot with a good follow. Sound familiar?
 
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