Justis Case...Pre-Barton or Post-Barton

Here are some stories of people whose cues were harmed in cases.

https://docs.google.com/View?id=dfs8sf4x_39zhs28dz4

I have a lot more that are kind of catastrophic. Unfortunately they reside on a disk I can't find at the moment.

Here is a quick summary though, all of these are stories of Instroke cases saving the day.

Woman runs over her case in the driveway.

Woman crashes on scooter in Hawaii and case bounces across the highway.

Man flips car and car lands on case and slides with case trapped underneath.

Basketball backboard slips and flies down stairs and smacks case dead in the center.

Case slips under jacked up car and when jack is released the case is holding up the car.

My favorite: after marital spat man's fat wife dropkicks his case as it's leaning against wall.

Car burns up with case inside - outer leather singed cues were ok.

Another favorite; Bike messenger hit by taxi driver and bike messenger flies over taxi and lands on his back on top of his Instroke case. Credits Instroke case with saving his life.

That's about all I can remember off the top of my head.

Sometimes life just happens. A little more protection isn't a bad thing to have I think. And the premise of this thread is that anyone on Earth can have both. They can have Jack's exquisite work and my protection if they desire.

John,
Did you get these examples form the same guy that writes for the national enquirer?

So let me just take one... a guy is changing his tire and why would he bring his case out of his car to jack up the car? Was it in the trunk at the time? He lowers his car and the case is under the car supporting it? Is he driving a Lambo that's 6" to the ground? C'mon.. really .. dude take this horse pile somewhere else.

JV
 
I used to use an Instroke case I bought new in probably '95. I can guarantee if it was run over by a car any cue inside would be horribly disfigured so the story about the case "saving the day" is complete bs.

Would you like to bet on that? If the amount is high enough I can provide you with the people who told me their stories and even pictures.


Also, the bottom accordioned on me a couple different times. That is, the bottom of the case pushed up, folding the outside tube on itself like a pant leg worn by someone too short for their britches.

Absolutely correct. When I first started making cases I made them similar to J.EF Q Cases and didn't anticipate this issue. A LOT of case makers have the same problem if they build the tube style cases. I managed to pretty much eliminate it with subsequent batches of Instrokes. I think that it's hardly a problem any more with Instroke but I wouldn't know really.

I can tell you that the way we do our bottoms now that this is unlikely to happen without some serious force being applied.


It was from years of carrying it by the top handle and setting it down less gently than I would a case made of glass. I use it for cue storage now and it never leaves the house.

As I said I was young and inexperienced when I built those. I apologize for my oversight. I also though that the purse latches we used back then were indestructible. Oh how wrong I was.

I'm not much of a decorations and lace kind of guy but I imagine JB's cases look nice on the outside to those who do. They remind me of the very nice but too fancy for me Widowmaker cases Kinister used to sell.
IMO if you want ultimate protection Whitten stands alone. I prefer the smooth and simple look the their cases too. The price you pay for this extra protection is weight. It was a tough day at state back in March lugging my 3X6 around for 10 hrs or so. I loaded up my old Bentley case for day 2 of the tourney to save some shoulder strength for pool. The added bonus for my old Whitten is it wasn't made by Chinese children.

Dan and Joe are my good friends and they do build one hell of a case. As someone who has taken their cases apart it isn't easy. I admire your opinion but I don't share it as far as being the ultimate protection in cases goes. I don't really want to go into more detail since I have already written extensively on this subject but I will say again that they build a really top quality product.

I don't really know why you had to toss in the stereotypical and bigoted remark about Chinese children but no case maker I know of in China uses child labor. In fact using child labor in China is a criminal offense which can carry the death penalty. Don't know if you knew that or not. Something to think about next time you see little Johnny out there shoveling chicken shit to earn money like I did when I was 13 among other things.
 
John,
Did you get these examples form the same guy that writes for the national enquirer?

So let me just take one... a guy is changing his tire and why would he bring his case out of his car to jack up the car? Was it in the trunk at the time? He lowers his car and the case is under the car supporting it? Is he driving a Lambo that's 6" to the ground? C'mon.. really .. dude take this horse pile somewhere else.

JV

Do you want to bet on it Joe? The guy who sent me the story lives in Denver.

In fact, I believe you can find that particular story posted by the author on RSB still. I don't remember his name or his user name on rsb right now but it will come to me.

I don't lie about these things. Each one happened. And if you want to call me a liar then bet something and put your money where your mouth is. I can have two of the stories verified to you in person in a couple days since both people live near you. And for both of them I actually have pictures and a handwritten letter somewhere.
 
Do you want to bet on it Joe? The guy who sent me the story lives in Denver.

In fact, I believe you can find that particular story posted by the author on RSB still. I don't remember his name or his user name on rsb right now but it will come to me.

I don't lie about these things. Each one happened. And if you want to call me a liar then bet something and put your money where your mouth is. I can have two of the stories verified to you in person in a couple days since both people live near you. And for both of them I actually have pictures and a handwritten letter somewhere.

Never mind Joe. I don't want the easy money.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030815193427/http://www.instroke.com/testimonials.shtml

Gosh I am getting all teary eyed now,

http://web.archive.org/web/20030810100419/http://www.instroke.com/manufacturing/essay.shtml

http://web.archive.org/web/20030826043334/http://www.instroke.com/story/story.htm
 
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But lets be honest, if you were to suffer a catastrophic impact, lets say a pallet of bricks falls onto either case, I don't think either case is going to help you.

Cases for normal use, anyone's case will probably suffice. If your local pool room doubles as your local roller derby rink, maybe you want something a little better.

JV (----maybe we should put rubber edges on ceiling fans so that you don't nick your shaft holding your cue to high.

thanks joe I NEED A LAUGH.....that is how i fill about it also....great post..
 
My instroke is maybe a 3X6 or 3X7 IIRC. Maybe you can drive over it with a car over there with their sortofsteel and micro sized coffinmibiles. I wouldn't drive my tahoe or jeep over this case if it was fully loaded with my own cues. It you say they will not be damaged then the cues would have to survive just as well wrapped in a Tshirt and a welcome mat.
I will say I was impressed that my 60" cue fit in that stock instroke. That's the only case to date I've seen that holds it without being a special order. So who made the Widowmaker case that yours look like JB?
 
thanks joe I NEED A LAUGH.....that is how i fill about it also....great post..

Except the difference is that I would be willing to bet large that my case will withstand a pallet of bricks.

It's simple physics.

I guess I don't really understand the sentiments here. A lot of folks are talking about case construction when they have never built a case in their life.

People buy and use stuff that is a lot less expensive and more durable than most high end custom cues and they put that stuff into padded cases. And often form fitted padded cases.

I mean look around the net.

No matter what the product is in EVERY situation the cases which are consider the best protection are the well padded ones.

I have been to a LOT of websites and forums over the years studying cases.

This is the ONLY PLACE (billiards forums) where I see people even ATTEMPT to say that the less padded option is just as good or better than the well-padded option.

The anecdotal stories are great about people who have had Justis cases and traveled around with them with no problems. But what I don't understand is if people wish those stories to be used as positive testimonials to the protectiveness of a certain brand then why don't they also allow for those who post negative testimonials?

Eric Hu neglected to mention that he called Shawn Smith (FTGOKIE on AZ) a liar and a dumbass in not so many words when Shawn reported that he believed that his cue was damaged in a Justis case after a bumpy ride in the pickup truck.

It's true that many people successfully using Justis cases with no overt damage to their cues and have been for years. I have NEVER said that a cue WILL get damaged in a Justis case.

At least I don't think that I have.

All I have ever said is that there are certain things that I like to protect against and I have protected against those things.

When a cue maker transports his cues to a show he does not transport them in a case that allows his cues to move freely and get banged against each other. He puts them in a padded case where movement is minimal.

When Justin from TAR transports his gear he puts each piece into foam lined road cases.

The only common sense that we all ought to try not to lose sight of is that in just about every human endeavor people prefer to have things of value securely stowed in a snug and safe environment. You can study cases through out history and see that things of value typically had purpose built form fitting cases.

Only in pool do we see for some reason a plethora of cases which are little more than tubes cut to the proper length used to protect instruments worth thousands of dollars. And only in pool do we see people rabidly defending the practice of putting these expensive instruments into unpadded or barely padded cases.

I fully understand that fashion invites compromise. I can buy a $4900 Ipad case that is simply a leather bag. Or I can buy a $49 one that will protect my Ipad from just about anything.

Folks let me put it bluntly, owning a Justis is a privilege. No matter how you slice it this man makes no more than 150 cases a year. So out of all the millions of cases available for purchase there are only about 3000 Justis cases in existence. I get it. They are rare and when Jack finally retires they will be even rarer.

But they are in no way shape or form as protective as our cases. That not badmouthing, it is a proven fact that I will be happy to prove again any time any where. In fact there shouldn't even be a debate about it.

It's a super simple equation, more padding equals more protection. Period. In every facet of life this is a true fact that applies across the board.

Jack makes a very nice case. Some of them are fantastic. Some of them are kind of boring to me. He is like a cue maker who settles on one way of making his stuff but absolutely excels at that style, kind of like Joey Gold.

So buy what you want. But please don't act like you know cue case engineering. While this isn't rocket science it's still a craft that has certain techniques that are not apparent from simple inspection of the product. You would have to actually have taken a lot of cases apart to understand what I know about cases. To sum it up I know everything about a Justis case because I have one and I have taken it apart. I don't believe that Jack has done the same with my cases.

If you want to own a Justis and have our protection then simply buy the upgraded interior from us. If you don't then don't. But don't you believe for a second that the stock interior of a Justis offers better protection or even equal because it simply does not.
 
4 years ago at the Expo the weather was horrific. We had an ice storm and as I was walking out one night I slipped feet first in the air and landed square on my back. Which low and behold I was carrying my Hard Tube In-Stroke case on my back and it INDEED saved my life. Didn't hurt my sticks either. 220 lbs freefalling from maybe 4 feet directly on my case and no damage. I still have this case and it doesn't have a great deal of padding to the interior. Because of this I would feel quite safe with either a JB case or a Justis case as far as safety is concerned. If I was compelled to spend a small inheritence on a case for my sticks I would in a second buy either one as I think they both do wonderful work.

on side note.... The new JB (revision 2) sounds enlightened! Nice change!:thumbup:
 
When the foam rubber you put in your case dries out and starts to crumble eventually migrating its way up to the top please remember what I told you.

Please don't be misled by beleiving you need padding at the bottom of the case. What do you think the little rubber bumper on the bottom of your cue is for? Also, do you actually think that tip damage will occur from hitting the bottom of the case after it has been slammed into a cue ball at 20 MPH repeadily??
I know Craig......I told you I would not get into this again. Sorry.

Ummmm. Sorry I offended you. But I don't like the sound of my Timmy scruggs( which I paid 8 times the amount of the case for) banging into the floor when I put it in. It has an ivory butt cap and it makes me a little nervous. Further more I never asked nor did you tell me anything about not putting foam pieces in the bottom of my case. I feel it needed them and I'm the customer paying a premium for a truly unnecessary luxury item and so I put them in. Lets face it there are case for 100 bucks that will protect my cues just fine. I bought it because I appreciate great craftsmanship and your cases are that and then some. I would recommend anyone buying this case!
 
My instroke is maybe a 3X6 or 3X7 IIRC. Maybe you can drive over it with a car over there with their sortofsteel and micro sized coffinmibiles. I wouldn't drive my tahoe or jeep over this case if it was fully loaded with my own cues. It you say they will not be damaged then the cues would have to survive just as well wrapped in a Tshirt and a welcome mat.
I will say I was impressed that my 60" cue fit in that stock instroke. That's the only case to date I've seen that holds it without being a special order. So who made the Widowmaker case that yours look like JB?

I just reported the story as it was told to me. I used to have pictures though of the Instroke case being driven over by a heavy Mercedes in Germany.

I will never make the claim that a case I build can survive being run over. But I can certainly report when people have run over our cases and they held up.

I don't appreciate that you called me a liar about it.

The reason that stock Instroke cases fit your cue is because I lengthened the case to fit 30.5" in the interior after I realized in the late 90s that cues were getting longer with longer pins and JPs.

Some of you folks seem to think that I am just full of bullshit when I tell you I study this stuff. Nothing I make happens by accident.

Our cases now are set up to handle a capacity of 32" or 29" equally. Doing this takes a fair bit of thought to figure out just the right amount of padding to use combined with the right cavity lengths.
 
Though JB is undoubtedly a controversial character here on AZ, but I for one, am thankful that we have someone as passionate as he is, producing products for our industry. I'm also glad to see that his communications are now more product/fact based, and less confrontational. Thank you for that John.

I have toted a heavy tube style Whitten 2x4 for years, but have thought many times about buying a Justis and adding a JB interior. I like the Justis styling, but thought the pro-lite interior was lacking protection. Glad to hear that Jack added a new "sport" option, but I have no experience with that. As we all know, Jack is a fine case maker, and I'm glad that he decided to make this improvement.
 
[...]
on side note.... The new JB (revision 2) sounds enlightened! Nice change!:thumbup:

I think his actual version information reads thusly:

John Barton 2011 Rev 2, Service Pack 3, Build 20110623, Patch level 4.

...oh, wait -- just received notification from BugTraq that a case-making pride offense vulnerability was just discovered in this version, and a new patch is now available for download from Sterling.

:p

-Sean
 
Taking off the rest of the day.

Do you realize that your continually repeating yourself....over and over.

I just took 2 Excedrin to relieve this migrain you have given me.

I'm done with you until I feel better.
 
I see now that John Barton is still trying to sell his interiors to our customers without letting them know that if installed in our case our very generous lifetime warranty is null and void.

Does the Barton interior cause any harm or damage to the Justis cases? That is the only ethical reason I can see for this stance on warranty. I assume it must compromise the case in some way...

KMRUNOUT
 
Ummmm. Sorry I offended you. But I don't like the sound of my Timmy scruggs( which I paid 8 times the amount of the case for) banging into the floor when I put it in. It has an ivory butt cap and it makes me a little nervous. Further more I never asked nor did you tell me anything about not putting foam pieces in the bottom of my case. I feel it needed them and I'm the customer paying a premium for a truly unnecessary luxury item and so I put them in. Lets face it there are case for 100 bucks that will protect my cues just fine. I bought it because I appreciate great craftsmanship and your cases are that and then some. I would recommend anyone buying this case!

You didn't offend me at all. I was just telling you how I feel about building a case with a padded bottom and the reason why.

I'm sure your ivory butted Scruggs came with a rubber bumper so you should be good to go without the padding.

I appreciate your nice comment about the case.
 
Do you realize that your continually repeating yourself....over and over.

I just took 2 Excedrin to relieve this migrain you have given me.

I'm done with you until I feel better.

Is there any upside in all this for you Why do you keep responding? There is a thing called "punching up". You dignify the discussion with your responses and attention. There is nothing to defend you will have fans and detractors in life no matter what. Go back to making cases and leave this ridiculousness to the rest here who have nothing better to do.
 
Does the Barton interior cause any harm or damage to the Justis cases? That is the only ethical reason I can see for this stance on warranty. I assume it must compromise the case in some way...

KMRUNOUT

I think it could cause damage to our case during the install and since we offer a lifetime warranty, we have every right to void said warranty when modifications are made that are not approved by us or to our liking.

Do you think GM would warrant the Ford engin installed in your Acadia?

I hope this answers your question.
 
Do you realize that your continually repeating yourself....over and over.

I just took 2 Excedrin to relieve this migrain you have given me.

I'm done with you until I feel better.

:-) Would you like me to recommend better migraine medication than Excedrin? I know all about migraines as well............just kidding.

I have to repeat myself over and over because every time I make a valid point someone else steps in with a nonsensical one that demands a reply.

It's a game Jack. Everyone is playing to win. Several of the people who have responded in this thread are only doing so to push my buttons.

But I treat every conversation as a new opportunity to make my points. Sorry about the headache, I didn't cause it. You don't have to participate.
 
I think his actual version information reads thusly:

John Barton 2011 Rev 2, Service Pack 3, Build 20110623, Patch level 4.

...oh, wait -- just received notification from BugTraq that a case-making pride offense vulnerability was just discovered in this version, and a new patch is now available for download from Sterling.

:p

-Sean

The new version comes with a $10,000 performance penalty if it doesn't perform as stated in the contract. So far it seems to be fairly stable with only minor edging into dangerous territory.
 
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