k55 rubber quality

RickyMan2023

New member
Hi guys, i just done an install in a local pool hall with K55 rubbers bought from my local supplier here in Australia. It seems they differ in quality. They dont seem very responsive. They have no badge or sticker on them. i bought them for $145 AUS . Would it seem i have bought poor quality rubber?
 
It's possible. Is the nose height correct?
yes i believe it is correct. I think ive just been buying the cheap brand with no name from my supplier. It's looking like i would have to purchase from the US to get the better quality. Im not sure if i can get the top brands from china?
 
yes i believe it is correct. I think ive just been buying the cheap brand with no name from my supplier. It's looking like i would have to purchase from the US to get the better quality. Im not sure if i can get the top brands from china?
The US don't have cushion manufacturers, our cushions are all imported from the same sources you'd be buying them from.
 
In the 1970's K55 rubber was used on Billiard Tables and K66 or Super Speed rubber was used on Pool Tables.

There was a physical difference between K55 and K66, I do not remember which but one had a slightly rounded top while the other had a slightly flatter top.

Sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990's the Billiard Table manufacturers in Europe started to use rubber cushions that were much better than the K55 manufactured in the U.S.

Sometime in the 1980's the U.S. companies stopped making both K55 and K66 however Taiwan was making an acceptable replacement.

As already mentioned the height of the may be incorrect or the angle of the on the rail that the rubber is glued to may be incorrect.

Second with age the rubber cushions do not rebound a pool or billiard ball as well as it does when the rubber is new.

Third, the quality of the K55 may not be the best.

And finally if the table is not heavy enough and solidly built the rubber will not rebound the balls as well as on the best tables.
 
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In the 1970's K55 rubber was used on Billiard Tables and K66 or Super Speed rubber was used on Pool Tables.

Sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990's the Billiard Table manufacturers in Europe started to use rubber cushions that were much better than the K55 manufactured in the U.S.

Sometime in the 1980's the U.S. companies stopped making both K55 and K66 however Taiwan was making an acceptable replacement.

As already mentioned the height of the may be incorrect or the angle of the on the rail that the rubber is glued to may be incorrect.

Second with age the rubber cushions do not rebound a pool or billiard ball as well as it does when the rubber is new.

Third, the quality of the K55 may not be the best.

And finally if the table is not heavy enough and solidly built the rubber will not rebound the balls as well as on the best tables.
If I am not mistaken K55 (or Artemis Intercontinental K66, not sure if there are other manufacturers that use Intercontinental terminology) is the more common cushion for pool tables.
 
If I am not mistaken K55 (or Artemis Intercontinental K66, not sure if there are other manufacturers that use Intercontinental terminology) is the more common cushion for pool tables.
Artemis Pool 66 = actual K66 profile
Artemis Intercontinental K66 = actual K55 profile
I've never seen other mfg using the intercontinental term
 
In the 1970's K55 rubber was used on Billiard Tables and K66 or Super Speed rubber was used on Pool Tables.

There was a physical difference between K55 and K66, I do not remember which but one had a slightly rounded top while the other had a slightly flatter top.

Sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990's the Billiard Table manufacturers in Europe started to use rubber cushions that were much better than the K55 manufactured in the U.S.

Sometime in the 1980's the U.S. companies stopped making both K55 and K66 however Taiwan was making an acceptable replacement.

As already mentioned the height of the may be incorrect or the angle of the on the rail that the rubber is glued to may be incorrect.

Second with age the rubber cushions do not rebound a pool or billiard ball as well as it does when the rubber is new.

Third, the quality of the K55 may not be the best.

And finally if the table is not heavy enough and solidly built the rubber will not rebound the balls as well as on the best tables.
Don't know what you're referring to, but K55 cushions have been being used by Brunswick for a long, long time. All Centennials, Anniversary's, GC's, Sporting, pretty much every Brunswick table can with K55 cushions. So could you explain your differences between K55 and K66 cushions? Brunswick used the SAME cushions on their Billiards, snooker, and pocket pool tables, K55.
 
The rubbers you purchased had too much filler in them and not 100% rubber.
It's a big job installing rubbers and not really worth going cheap.
 
Don't know what you're referring to, but K55 cushions have been being used by Brunswick for a long, long time. All Centennials, Anniversary's, GC's, Sporting, pretty much every Brunswick table can with K55 cushions. So could you explain your differences between K55 and K66 cushions? Brunswick used the SAME cushions on their Billiards, snooker, and pocket pool tables, K55.
A lot of this info is just not correct and it may result in people ordering the wrong one.
the Brunswick centennial may be an original or a newer version as seen here:


my little 7'brunswick made in 1961 used a discontinued rubber profile that was very small, I had to cut the rails down to compensate and used the Brunswick centennial / Contender cushion and that one is depicted here: this is not the K55 mentioned above.


The differences between the K55 and K66 profile are described here :
source: https://www.classicbilliards.net/cushions-supplies/determine-rail-profile.html

* K55 cushions measure 1 ¼” across the top and 1 5/16” high at the back (glue) side. Keep in mind if you have an older Brunswick (prior to 1975), be sure to measure the back side of the cushion at the glue side and confirm 1 5/16” before ordering. Older K55 cushions had a 1 5/16” back side dimension but a 1 1/8” top side measurement (same as K66).

the main difference seems to be that the K55 is 1 1/4" across the top but the K66 was 1 1/8" across the top. ( i found the wording above explained it but it was a bit confusing to read through..

you can check but I think the angle that the rail is cut may differ.. perhaps the rails can be recut to make that change. Cobra probably can provide more detail on that since he's evidently a fully trained and very experineced professional pool table mechanic.

the diamond cushions are made offshore, in Taiwan.

classic Billiards seems to carry some different brands..

I have no ties or stake in what manufacturer you choose, I'd look around, they are not all the same I agree with Gazman above that you are best to spend a bit more and get good quality cushions, I dont think there is enough info here to say that there is too much recycled product in the cushions..

There is a good video here on Brunswick's equipment, yes the video may be quite dated but it gives you a good idea of the equipment needed to manufacture rubber cushions.. in the video they mention that the offcuts are added back to the production so was being re-added , even by Brunswick at the time the video was made.



there is also a fast and cheap way, by using synthetic rubber instead of rubber compounds from the rubber tree it is possible to make them by a molding process. this synthetic rubber has different properties, for one it is non porous.

I suggest being careful that if you replace the cushions you are ordering real rubber, because you may find that you ordered rubber cusions yes, but are they natural rubber or a cheper sythetic material?

there are a bunch of proprietary formulations nitrile rubber is an example, this is is a synthetic rubber compound, whereas natural rubber or latex rubber is derived from plants.

if you like you can look into the vulcanization process but basically sulfur is added, it is combined with the rubber at a molecular level, not simply added or mixed in, this is a way of improving the properties of rubber.

Ive worked in the industry of printing and have made rubber rollers from synthetic rubber which is pumped into molds heated in an oven and hardens by way of heat. The durometer is specified on the drum which is a liquid.
Natural rubber is a different animal..
In that Brunswich video it gives you a scope into what sort of machinery is needed to manufacture real rubber, its way more than just pouring stuff into a mold and heating it... the expensive machinery may not be so comonplace.

so if you order I'd make sure they actually do claim the rubber is made using the more natural rubbers and not by way of a synthetic, this is because the bounce of the natural rubber is different. Ive noticed that online I will often see products made of "rubbber" but what is often left out is wheather or not that refers to synthetic rubber, It's easy to get caught in that and order the wrong thing.

an O ring is usually a type of synthetic rubber, a rubber band or a balloon is latex rubber, one is derived from a plant, the other is derived from a chemical process. the synthetic has much better oil resistance. the natural rubber has a better stretch factor. If you were to stretch an O ring and then a rubber band, you'd see the difference.. now you can compare the bounce.. feel a rubber band, it's very "grippy" then feel an O ring, not so grippy, thats probably because it's not porous. on a molecular level it's very "tight"

if you look into it you will find many manufacturers, many processes which are patented and info on chemicals.. Its a really big subject.

Mainly your concern should be where is it made? can you show me your factory so I can look at the plant on google or are you just a reseller? I do this with machinery, show me your factory so I can zoom in, if you cannot then where is it coming from? if the retailer is unable to answer that they are probably just a reseller, sure ok, So you are reselling ok, where is the actual factory?

often they can't answer. why ? because their production is based upon separate contractors providing all the parts which are made in disassociated shops. every component is made by the contractor that offered the lowest price, the race to the bottom it's called. this is common today with offshore manufacturers, Brunswick had big US plants. I dont doubt a lot has moved offshore that existed some years back.. You can only choose from what's available.

for a pool table manufacturer I wouldnt be so worried about getting parts, they dont use many, but if Im buying machinery then Id like to see that factory, why? because in 10 years that parts source is likely to disappear and now Im sitting wiht a obsolete machine needing an unobtainable part. I see this situation a lot. Buyer beware. If it a big name brand manufacturer it can still happen but i feel more secure if I can actually see assembly plant on google maps.. so many are here one day, gone the next.


rubber has a durometer so you can check with the manufacturer about their own durometer specs, the durometer is the hardness of the rubber as measured with a shore durometer. the tooliis described here:


as rubber ages, its durometer increases, it gets harder. If you were to own a shore durometer tool you could monitor what you are installing and take periodic measurements to track numerically how the rubber is aging, the local conditions will play a role,.. covering the table may help it age a little longer so its a good habit if you care about the table.
 
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A lot of this info is just not correct and it may result in people ordering the wrong one.
the Brunswick centennial may be an original or a newer version as seen here:


my little 7'brunswick made in 1961 used a discontinued rubber profile that was very small, I had to cut the rails down to compensate and used the Brunswick centennial / Contender cushion and that one is depicted here: this is not the K55 mentioned above.


The differences between the K55 and K66 profile are described here :
source: https://www.classicbilliards.net/cushions-supplies/determine-rail-profile.html

* K55 cushions measure 1 ¼” across the top and 1 5/16” high at the back (glue) side. Keep in mind if you have an older Brunswick (prior to 1975), be sure to measure the back side of the cushion at the glue side and confirm 1 5/16” before ordering. Older K55 cushions had a 1 5/16” back side dimension but a 1 1/8” top side measurement (same as K66).

the main difference seems to be that the K55 is 1 1/4" across the top but the K66 was 1 1/8" across the top. ( i found the wording above explained it but it was a bit confusing to read through..

you can check but I think the angle that the rail is cut may differ.. perhaps the rails can be recut to make that change. Cobra probably can provide more detail on that since he's evidently a fully trained and very experineced professional pool table mechanic.

the diamond cushions are made offshore, in Taiwan.

classic Billiards seems to carry some different brands..

I have no ties or stake in what manufacturer you choose, I'd look around, they are not all the same I agree with Gazman above that you are best to spend a bit more and get good quality cushions, I dont think there is enough info here to say that there is too much recycled product in the cushions..

Tere is a good video here on Brunswick's equipment, yes the video may be quite dated but it gives you a good idea of the equipment needed to manufacture rubber cushions.. in the video they mention that the offcuts are added back to the production so was being re-added , even by brunswick at the time the video was made.



there is also a fast and cheap way, by using synthetic rubber instead of rubber compounds from the rubber tree it is possible to make them by a molding process. this synthetic rubber has different properties, for one it is non porous.

I suggest being careful that if you replace the cushions you are ordering real rubber, because you may find that you ordered rubber cusions yes, but are they natural rubber or a cheper sythetic material?

there are a bunch of proprietary formulations nitrile rubber is an example, this is is a synthetic rubber compound, whereas natural rubber or latex rubber is derived from plants.

if you like you can look into the vulcanization process but basically sulfur is added, it is combined with the rubber at a molecular level, not simply added or mixed in, this is a way of improving the properties of rubber.

Ive worked in the industry of printing and have made rubber rollers from synthetic rubber which is pumped into molds heated in an oven and hardens by way of heat. The durometer is specified on the drum which is a liquid.
Natural rubber is a different animal..
In that Brunswich video it gives you a scope into what sort of machinery is needed to manufacture real rubber, its way more than just pouring stuff into a mold and heating it... the expensive machinery may not be so comonplace.

so if you order I'd make sure they actually do claim the rubber is made using the more natural rubbers and not by way of a synthetic, this is because the bounce of the natural rubber is different. Ive noticed that online I will often see products made of "rubbber" but what is often left out is wheather or not that refers to synthetic rubber, It's easy to get caught in that and order the wrong thing.

an O ring is usually nitrile rubber, a rubber band or a balloon is latex rubber, one is derived from a plant, the other is derived from a chemical process. the synthetic has much better oil resistance. the natural rubber has a better stretch factor. If you were to stretch an O ring and then a rubber band, you'd see the difference.. now you can compare the bounce..

if you look into it you will find many manufacturers, many processes which are patented and info on chemicals.. Its a really big subject.

mainly your concern should be where is it made? can you show me your factory so I can look at the plant on google or are you just a reseller? I do this with machinery, show me your factory so I can zoom in, if you cannot then where is it coming from? if the retailer is unable to answer that they are probably just a reseller, sure ok, So you are reselling ok, where is the actual factory?

often they can't answer. why ? because their production is based upon separate contractors providing all the parts which are made in disassociated shops. every component is made by the contractor that offered the lowest price, the race to the bottom it's called. this is common today with offshore manufacturers, Brunswick had big US plants. I dont doubt a lot has moved offshore that existed some years back.. You can only choose from what's available.

for a pool table manufacturer I wouldnt be so worried about getting parts, they dont use many, but if Im buying machinery then Id like to see that factory, why? because in 10 years that parts source is likely to disappear and now Im sitting wiht a obsolete machine needing an unobtainable part. I see this situation a lot. Buyer beware. If it a big name brand manufacturer it can still happen but i feel more secure if I can actually see assembly plant on google maps.. so many are here one day, gone the next.


rubber has a durometer so you can check with the manufacturer about their own durometer specs, the durometer is the hardness of the rubber as measured with a shore durometer. the tooliis described here:


as rubber ages, its durometer increases, it gets harder. If you were to own a shore durometer tool you could monitor what you are installing and take periodic measurements to track numerically how the rubber is aging, the local conditions will play a role,.. covering the table may help it age a little longer so its a good habit if you care about the table.
Snookered_again, I do appreciate all that information you have in your head. I only wish you would edit a little bit. It's a long read sometimes. I truly mean you have knowledge in the field of rubber. Thank you for the information you shared. I hope you take no offense, That is not my intent. I'm just less academic and more simplistic hands-on type.

How long is the shelf life of rubber before it starts losing its elasticity? I guess I'm asking, Does it make sense to stock up on rail material or not?

Robert
 
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