Kamui Black tips softness/hardness question

In the last year I have gone through too many tips to count, trying to find one that I like. I have finally settled on the black Kamui SS.

So far no scuffing, no miscueing, no mushrooming.

I love them........
 
If you like Kamui's go with a SS. I went from Elk Master to Kaumi Medium, to Kaumi SS to Ultraskin PRO's.

If you want to save a few bucks and get the same product get in on the 10 for 25.00 on Ultraskins. Get yourself a "sampler pack". Get a couple of PROs, some very softs, softs, and mediums. Once you find what you like give the rest away. That's what I did/doing.

If you want single layered get a Ki-Tech soft.

Those 2 in my opinion are the best brand of tips and at great prices.

P.S. the Ultraskin HH makes for a pretty not too shabby break tip.
 
The Renfro said:
Kamui makes great products... I think the prices are out of line but hey thats just me... As far as the clear pad LOL I have yet to meet an installer or actually anyone who really bought into that being an improvement and not a marketting ploy so you could ID their tips on other people's cues across the room.... Just glad Navigator tips are coming out so Kamui doesn't figure out coloring their tips different colors improves deflection :thumbup:

Chris
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You can LOL as much as you want. Show me! I agree the clear was a marketing ploy. I install tips, the install is the same either way. But I do think it helps on the life of the tip which wasn't the intention. I've tried almost every tip made. Kamui tips cut cleaner than any other tip, so the install is absolutely simple. In addition, the tips play great and maintain consistency. There are other tips that play similar but are a hassle to install. Many are close but don't maintain consistency. They get hard fast or mushroom.
 
The Renfro said:
For the price I don't know how you beat them since you can afford to swap them out as often as you want... I did get my hands on a few for testing and while they are not particularly consistent and you may find hards that feel like mediums and vice versa if they went thru all the gradin and QC you wouldn't be buying them for the price you are...

My 2 picks for layered are G2... Frkn Fabulous tip currently will see if they stay that way as they grow... We all recall the Moori story.... My 2nd choice is the Ultraskin because of the pricepoint.... IF you have to have a layered tip I look at it this way... IF you have easy access to an installer.. Order some Ultraskins from Tom... IF you have to travel uphill both ways 30 miles in the snow to get a layered tip installed... Buy the G2.....

I kid screw the layered and buy Ki-Tech rawr... Seriously tho... I have tested a ton of tips at this point and can tell you if you have something that is perfect for YOU don't buy mine, don't buy Tom's don't buy the G2.. Don't overthink it.. Just stick with what works......

Chris
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I've tried the G2s, and Tom's as well. I would try yours but you're sounding a little too much like the salesman from Tommy Boy, trying to sell me a guarantee on a box.
 
UPlayLucky said:
I've tried the G2s, and Tom's as well. I would try yours but you're sounding a little too much like the salesman from Tommy Boy, trying to sell me a guarantee on a box.
Click to expand...

It's fine if you don't.. your comment on the Kamuis maintaining consistency tells the tale as far as I am concerned... I have already said don't buy anyone's tips if you have something that fits you so I am unsure where you are coming from on this salesmen Idea.. I have no problem recommending tips from other makers if I think they may be more of what you want or are looking for..

If you are doing installs spend the money and buy a GOOD shore D durometer not one of the digitals for tires, they are junk.... Put a medium or under Kamui on a shaft and measure it... Now measure it every week for a month of solid play..... If you meant they are consistent out of the box I will agree with that but it's the internet so........

My biggest thing in tips is trying to make people understand that hardness is subjective and that when a tip maker makes several hardness grades out of the same leather/formula and just presses them differently you are getting short changed..... COR is king and is key for feel and using a press to adjust that leads to softs and mediums that change faster than you would think....

In all reality there are likely NO bad tips out on the market... The old tweeten tips included... The issue is being consistent out of the box... Layered are and most single layereds are not.... vs how fast do they change... Most layered that are not hard change quickly while the single layereds do not.....

I had a guy last night with a Kamui SS that was 2 years old.... It was a 78 on the durometer.... Thats 3 points higher than a medium brown and the same as the hard.... Should he tell people he is using a Super Soft if they like the hit or should he tell them they need a hard?

This whole thing is about changing things.... I can make a 72 Durometer tip that has the COR of a soft, medium, medium/hard or Hard.... For years Durometer was the only way we had to gauge tips... I would like to see that change....

Chris
 
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cuetechasaurus said:
I decided to go with a medium when I got a new one put on, and although the hit was nice and crisp, I found myself miscuing quite frequently, and kept scuffing/tapping it.
Click to expand...



I have played with black Kamui SS, S, M and H.
The super soft is just not for me, not at all, may as well put a sponge on your tip.
The soft is OK.
The medium is great.
The hard is where the s*it's at, pure heaven.
Love the hard.
But I understand some might not.
Today there's no way I'm going softer than a medium when it comes to black Kamui.
You will use a LOT more energy making shots, specially draws, the softer the tip is, plus they're not as consistently the same as you hit with them, meaning they get harder as you use them. Hard tips don't do that, so you just get used to one stroke no matter what.

The fact that you're miscuing has just as much.....actually much more......to do with your stroke than it does the tip.

Keep it chalked and work on a steady stroke.
 
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The Renfro said:
It's fine if you don't.. your comment on the Kamuis maintaining consistency tells the tale as far as I am concerned... I have already said don't buy anyone's tips if you have something that fits you so I am unsure where you are coming from on this salesmen Idea.. I have no problem recommending tips from other makers if I think they may be more of what you want or are looking for..

If you are doing installs spend the money and buy a GOOD shore D durometer not one of the digitals for tires, they are junk.... Put a medium or under Kamui on a shaft and measure it... Now measure it every week for a month of solid play..... If you meant they are consistent out of the box I will agree with that but it's the internet so........

My biggest thing in tips is trying to make people understand that hardness is subjective and that when a tip maker makes several hardness grades out of the same leather/formula and just presses them differently you are getting short changed..... COR is king and is key for feel and using a press to adjust that leads to softs and mediums that change faster than you would think....

In all reality there are likely NO bad tips out on the market... The old tweeten tips included... The issue is being consistent out of the box... Layered are and most single layereds are not.... vs how fast do they change... Most layered that are not hard change quickly while the single layereds do not.....

I had a guy last night with a Kamui SS that was 2 years old.... It was a 78 on the durometer.... Thats 3 points higher than a medium brown and the same as the hard.... Should he tell people he is using a Super Soft if they like the hit or should he tell them they need a hard?

This whole thing is about changing things.... I can make a 72 Durometer tip that has the COR of a soft, medium, medium/hard or Hard.... For years Durometer was the only way we had to gauge tips... I would like to see that change....

Chris
Click to expand...

When I say consistency, I mean after the tip is installed, it plays/feels the same through the life of the tip. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual hardness of every tip varies. My last order of S tips, feel much harder than usual. And maybe the consistent feel could be do to the level of hardness, since they do play like a harder tip (eg. Soft Kamui's, are comparable to most medium tips).

But in the end, how do they perform. In my opinion, I have not found another tip that exceeds in performance, appearance and ease of installation.
 
Tips

cuetechasaurus said:
Hi all, I took a break from pool for a while dealing with some health issues. I still play occasionally, and I did play in this year's BCAPL tournament at the Rio. I put in about three solid weeks of practice before so I could at least get in semi-stroke before leaving for Vegas.

I had a three year old Kamui Black on my cue that used to hit very good, but I don't remember it's class of pliability, and since it was so old I had to replace it.

I decided to go with a medium when I got a new one put on, and although the hit was nice and crisp, I found myself miscuing quite frequently, and kept scuffing/tapping it. I somewhat caught the 'pool bug' again, and want to start playing a lot more again, and I'll probably have to get this tip replaced with a softer Kamui Black (they were always a personal favorite for me).

For someone who prefers standard medium to medium-soft tips, would the super soft or the soft be a better choice? I recall someone mentioning that the Kamui Blacks tend to be harder than they are labeled (in comparison to standard tips).

Or, if there is a way of saving a few bucks regarding this, is there a method of making my tip play a bit softer without having to change it?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Laminated tips

Tips seem to change.....Or the way the feel and how the cue ball reacts to the tip all seems to change or feel different over the life of the tip.

I don't like doing this but I get tired for waiting for a kamui tip to break in and anymore I want to cut off about 1/3 to 1/4 of the tip.

There is a term called work hardened, and that is what normally happens to a layered tip after being used for a while .

I find sniper moori kamui onxy ultra skins tips to play fairly close to each other.
.
 
The Renfro said:
It's fine if you don't.. your comment on the Kamuis maintaining consistency tells the tale as far as I am concerned... I have already said don't buy anyone's tips if you have something that fits you so I am unsure where you are coming from on this salesmen Idea.. I have no problem recommending tips from other makers if I think they may be more of what you want or are looking for..

If you are doing installs spend the money and buy a GOOD shore D durometer not one of the digitals for tires, they are junk.... Put a medium or under Kamui on a shaft and measure it... Now measure it every week for a month of solid play..... If you meant they are consistent out of the box I will agree with that but it's the internet so........

My biggest thing in tips is trying to make people understand that hardness is subjective and that when a tip maker makes several hardness grades out of the same leather/formula and just presses them differently you are getting short changed..... COR is king and is key for feel and using a press to adjust that leads to softs and mediums that change faster than you would think....

In all reality there are likely NO bad tips out on the market... The old tweeten tips included... The issue is being consistent out of the box... Layered are and most single layereds are not.... vs how fast do they change... Most layered that are not hard change quickly while the single layereds do not.....

I had a guy last night with a Kamui SS that was 2 years old.... It was a 78 on the durometer.... Thats 3 points higher than a medium brown and the same as the hard.... Should he tell people he is using a Super Soft if they like the hit or should he tell them they need a hard?

This whole thing is about changing things.... I can make a 72 Durometer tip that has the COR of a soft, medium, medium/hard or Hard.... For years Durometer was the only way we had to gauge tips... I would like to see that change....

Chris
Click to expand...

I agree with what Chris Renfro is saying here. I install tips every day. LOTS of them! LePro still remains the tip in most demand by my beginner and intermediate customers. Kamui Black SS has been, and still is, my biggest seller to advanced players. The Kamui Clears look nice, but I don't think the clear pad does what Kamui claimed it is supposed to do, which is to keep glue from wicking into the bottom layer, effectively hardening that layer and taking away its practical use. I think the glue used to adhere the pad to the tip does the same thing. If there is any actual benefit to the clear pad, it might be that the pad acts as a shock absorber, which just might help guard the tip from premature hardening. But this is just a theory of mine, not a proven fact. Therefore, for the most part, I think the idea of the clear pad was just a marketing ploy by Kamui to add to their mystique and keep their prices up.

I will agree, however, that Kamui tips machine better and delaminate less than all other layered tips on the market. I have had issues with every other brand of layered tip. Ultra-Skins are nice and are priced right, but I had delamination problems with the batch I bought. To Tom Hay's credit, he voluntarily refunded my money for the entire batch. Kudos to him for that. :thumbup:

I've installed a few Ki-Tech tips, and so far have had zero complaints on them. I am currently using a Ki-Tech Soft on my own cue and I like it a lot. I can't tell any difference between the way it plays and the Kamui Black SS I used to play with. My Ki-Tech has not mushroomed or hardened. So far, it appears to be a great tip, especially for the money.

Roger
 
Roger Long said:
but I don't think the clear pad does what Kamui claimed it is supposed to do, which is to keep glue from wicking into the bottom layer, effectively hardening that layer and taking away its practical use.
Click to expand...

That's only half of it. The significance of the clear pad is consistency in installation/gluing, ie no prep required. Wicking is not just bad because it renders the base layer hard; it's bad because it creates gaps in the glue bond. I've experienced this with several different kinds of tips in the past, but not with Kamui Clears.

To me that is the ONLY reason they put the pad on there; the rest is pure bullshit.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Hi all, I took a break from pool for a while dealing with some health issues. I still play occasionally, and I did play in this year's BCAPL tournament at the Rio. I put in about three solid weeks of practice before so I could at least get in semi-stroke before leaving for Vegas.

I had a three year old Kamui Black on my cue that used to hit very good, but I don't remember it's class of pliability, and since it was so old I had to replace it.

I decided to go with a medium when I got a new one put on, and although the hit was nice and crisp, I found myself miscuing quite frequently, and kept scuffing/tapping it. I somewhat caught the 'pool bug' again, and want to start playing a lot more again, and I'll probably have to get this tip replaced with a softer Kamui Black (they were always a personal favorite for me).

For someone who prefers standard medium to medium-soft tips, would the super soft or the soft be a better choice? I recall someone mentioning that the Kamui Blacks tend to be harder than they are labeled (in comparison to standard tips).

Or, if there is a way of saving a few bucks regarding this, is there a method of making my tip play a bit softer without having to change it?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I put a new Kamui Medium on my Pechauer. That turned my Pechauer into a log. I will say this, my other cue (Guido Orlandi) has a great Kamui tip on it & plays as good as any cue I ever had in my bag.

When you test anything with a durometer reader, I believe you can get close. Just taking one out of a bag doesn't work. I'm headed for a medium triangle after it's been tested. Maybe I'll call "Tony the Tiger" & see what he has to say.

A $45.00 waste of time & money. Too expensive for trail & error. I'm done with Kamui's.
 
ceebee said:
I put a new Kamui Medium on my Pechauer. That turned my Pechauer into a log. I will say this, my other cue (Guido Orlandi) has a great Kamui tip on it & plays as good as any cue I ever had in my bag.

When you test anything with a durometer reader, I believe you can get close. Just taking one out of a bag doesn't work. I'm headed for a medium triangle after it's been tested. Maybe I'll call "Tony the Tiger" & see what he has to say.

A $45.00 waste of time & money. Too expensive for trail & error. I'm done with Kamui's.
Click to expand...

Agreed. You can get 20 ultraskins at that price. Something similar with kitechs I bet
 
Roger Long said:
If there is any actual benefit to the clear pad, it might be that the pad acts as a shock absorber, which just might help guard the tip from premature hardening.
Roger
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Roger, I agree with you on this, I indicated the same thing on post #16.

I'm glad someone said the same thing, because I believe it reduces the hardening effect.
 
Interesting concept about it being a shock absorber... I would have assumed that the clear disk was a hard plastic and would not reduce or cushion the impact... Will see how hard one is this wednesday when I can get by the installers and scarf up a cpl for testing again... Will do a life cycle on one after the moori medium test is done... Would you think the test on a super soft or medium would be more beneficial? I would think Super Soft since I think it may be their largest seller.....

Chris
 
The Renfro said:
Interesting concept about it being a shock absorber... I would have assumed that the clear disk was a hard plastic and would not reduce or cushion the impact... Will see how hard one is this wednesday when I can get by the installers and scarf up a cpl for testing again... Will do a life cycle on one after the moori medium test is done... Would you think the test on a super soft or medium would be more beneficial? I would think Super Soft since I think it may be their largest seller.....

Chris
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Try it on the Soft, not the SS. Without the clear disc, I always notice the hardening when it gets down to 2-3 layers. I'm at the same point with a clear tip and it is still playable.
 
UPlayLucky said:
Try it on the Soft, not the SS. Without the clear disc, I always notice the hardening when it gets down to 2-3 layers. I'm at the same point with a clear tip and it is still playable.
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I'll run one with the disc and one without.... Will be a couple of weeks tho until I have finished with the original moori medium and our new medium/hard.... I think I likely skipped their soft versions as far as playing with them.. I tried the hard and medium and used the Super Soft for quite awhile.... It came out about the time I was going to try their softs so I have no playing experience with them..... Since the OP is about the Blacks I will go that direction and not the brown route....

Chris
 
Try all of them. :) I tried kamui black hard, medium, soft, super soft , and now using kamui clear black soft . I don't like the sound of a kamui clear black soft but the cueball reaction is still the same on kamui black soft. If you're using a 314-2 shaft, I highly recommend using a kamui black soft. I will be using a kamui black soft on next tip replacement unless I found a better tip that suits my taste.
 
The Renfro said:
I'll run one with the disc and one without.... Will be a couple of weeks tho until I have finished with the original moori medium and our new medium/hard.... I think I likely skipped their soft versions as far as playing with them.. I tried the hard and medium and used the Super Soft for quite awhile.... It came out about the time I was going to try their softs so I have no playing experience with them..... Since the OP is about the Blacks I will go that direction and not the brown route....

Chris
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I believe the black soft would be the best for the test. The SS is a little spongy, not sure how much it would harden and the Medium/Hard are extremely hard to begin with.
 
UPlayLucky said:
Try it on the Soft, not the SS. Without the clear disc, I always notice the hardening when it gets down to 2-3 layers. I'm at the same point with a clear tip and it is still playable.
Click to expand...

I noticed this too. Down to last three layers of kamui black soft and it feels rock solid. Holds its shape really nice. Every turning stone I usually get a new tip from the installer because one of mine is due. I think I might go with a medium layer this week. I kind of like the hardness of an older soft so why wait. Just go with medium right away, but then I'll be playing with a break tip by the time it gets to three layers.
 
nobcitypool said:
To the OP. I used to use Kamui Black SS. Switched to Ki-Tech Soft and much happier. Doesn't mushroom like the Kamui, stays consistent, feels great and 1/3 the price.
Click to expand...

Shannon D turned me on to the Kamui SS four or five years ago, and it was the best tip I had ever used. I had a couple put on a few months ago and they wouldn't stop flaring out, didn't feel the same and miscued a lot, and I didn't have this problem before. Usually I had to shape them once or twice and that was it. Come to find out, they were a China bootleg copy. Has anyone else had a problem with a copy Kamui. It was a well known stick builder around this area that put them on. Are they that hard to tell apart? Any info would be appreciated.
 
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