Kick at this!

[renard]

Game: 8-ball on a fast bar box table.

Situation: My opponent played safe leaving me to kick at the nine.

My question is how would you kick at this and why?

I was successful kicking at this twice (he had a good kick too.) I eventually won the game when he missed the 8 ball entirely but someone made the comment to me, "It's not what I would have done but you hit it good and won the game." He stood by his explanation of how and why. I need a concensus from this wise forum!

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Game: 8-ball on a fast bar box table.

Situation: My opponent played safe leaving me to kick at the nine.

My question is how would you kick at this and why?

3 cushions, short rail, long rail, short rail. With the right speed, it has the best chance of coming out safe. IMO
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Tracy

 

[deep]

I think Tracy's shot is a good escape. I suppose you could always play a soft masse on to the short rail and then into the back of the 9.

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[Solartje]

or role the 8 in between the 9 and the cussion, without leaving it available in the corner pocket... is another option, but i would kick it too. If u cant kick this one in with a good %.. then u need to train more, cuz shots like this ull have to be able to make them often.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Agreed, but judging by your misplaced arrows it also seems that the 3-railer would be difficult for most to judge the correct path. If one were to attempt that, it might also be a decent attempt to just 2-rail the cue and pocket the 9.

Either way it's a pickle.

3 cushions, short rail, long rail, short rail. With the right speed, it has the best chance of coming out safe. IMO
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Tracy

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Agreed, but judging by your misplaced arrows it also seems that the 3-railer would be difficult for most to judge the correct path.

Those arrows were just for illustration puposes, not intended to be exact. I agree, it would not be easy, but it would be possible.

Tracy

 

[Cornerman]

Game: 8-ball on a fast bar box table.

Situation: My opponent played safe leaving me to kick at the nine.

My question is how would you kick at this and why?

I was successful kicking at this twice (he had a good kick too.) I eventually won the game when he missed the 8 ball entirely but someone made the comment to me, "It's not what I would have done but you hit it good and won the game." He stood by his explanation of how and why. I need a concensus from this wise forum!

I guess I'm not so cavalier. You're behind the 8-ball. You're about 75% loser. I'd have to shoot this slow kick safety. It seems to be a very standard shot, in bar league play. If you miss the 9-ball (which you won't), even ball-in-hand isn't a hanger. If you hit the 9-ball (which you will) you're either going to lock a safety, or leave a jacked up, up table shot up the rail.

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Of course, his response shot may exactly be the same as yours.

Fred

 

[renard]

Heres what I did and the reason why.

I went with the two rail kick because with the fast tables I was able to hit this slightly harder than one rail. Everyone has probably at one time or other used this system to kick two rails before. (Find the point halfway between the object ball and the cue. Extend a imaginary green line to the pocket and shoot parallel to that line.)

Also the angle coming into the nine would possibly be more favorable in a double kiss/full hit situation. This shot is very predictable at slow speed as well. I hit this pretty good the first time and he did return a good kick like Fred illustrated in opposite. Then I hit it the same two rail again even better to my surprise!

 

[Cornerman]

Heres what I did and the reason why.

I went with the two rail kick because with the fast tables I was able to hit this slightly harder than one rail. Everyone has probably at one time or other used this system to kick two rails before. (Find the point halfway between the object ball and the cue. Extend a imaginary green line to the pocket and shoot parallel to that line.)

Also the angle coming into the nine would possibly be more favorable in a double kiss/full hit situation. This shot is very predictable at slow speed as well.

Good shot. Nobody should fault your decision on this shot.

Fred

 

[renard]

Thanks Fred,

When that someone made the comment, "Thats not what he would have done." I asked him, "Ok what would you do?" He produced your shot. Which I admit is standard. He argued, "Don't go three rails if you can go two. Don't go two rails if you can go one. And to a point he was right. I just felt better with this one.

RSB the angle on your shot is even more favorable than my two rail. But I myself probable couldn't pull that one off! With my luck, too hard, too soft, too thin on either side.

Deep you must have a good touch with the masse. I cannot keep mine that consistant to try that. again like rsb you do get a better angle.

I guess the bottom line is we all shoot with what we are more comfortable with...

 

[GADawg]

At my comfort level, I would shoot the two rail kick that you shot, shooting easy and hoping to leave the cue hooked behind the nine.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Heres what I did and the reason why.

I went with the two rail kick because with the fast tables I was able to hit this slightly harder than one rail. Everyone has probably at one time or other used this system to kick two rails before. (Find the point halfway between the object ball and the cue. Extend a imaginary green line to the pocket and shoot parallel to that line.)

Also the angle coming into the nine would possibly be more favorable in a double kiss/full hit situation. This shot is very predictable at slow speed as well. I hit this pretty good the first time and he did return a good kick like Fred illustrated in opposite. Then I hit it the same two rail again even better to my surprise!

I actually had this shot come up TWICE in a single game. Not only did I play it the way you did, the second time, I was able to hit just right and hook him behind my stripe (I hit it very soft). In my opinion, this is the right shot on many levels. For starters, hitting the ball isn't sufficient. There are many ways to hit the ball and a lot of them leave a shot on that 8 so hitting the stripe alone should not be your priority. However, the big reason behind the approach you take is that if you're successful, he's safe. It's a plausable approach to taking a win away from your opponent and really, there are very few options that yield such success.

In the Wei diagram, it looks far more difficult than it is. On a bar-box, this two-railer is practically a hanger.

 

[sjm]

Renard, please check the PM I sent you on February 7 on posting wei images.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Those arrows were just for illustration puposes, not intended to be exact. I agree, it would not be easy, but it would be possible.

Tracy

I actually really like your idea. Yes, it's a longer shot and speed becomes more of a factor BUT you're going flush into the 9-ball. Assuming you've got the angle right, there's a greater chance for the hook. This is a barbox so this approach isn't THAT long. I think the two-railer is easier to see but this three-railer might just be the way to go.

 

[JDB]

Game: 8-ball on a fast bar box table.

Situation: My opponent played safe leaving me to kick at the nine.

My question is how would you kick at this and why?

I was successful kicking at this twice (he had a good kick too.) I eventually won the game when he missed the 8 ball entirely but someone made the comment to me, "It's not what I would have done but you hit it good and won the game." He stood by his explanation of how and why. I need a concensus from this wise forum!

This is the first shot that came to mind for me... I am hoping to thin the top of the nine and leave a tough bank..

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[Cross]

I am not sure what the rules are in 8 ball, but can you play a deliberate foul and leave the 8 ball kissing the 9 ?

 

[twilight]

Depending on rules of course, I would do what cross said. If i knew the speed of the table, as it seems you do. I would slow roll the 8 and freeze it to the nine so that there isn't a shot for my opponent. I would use follow to make sure the cue ball hit the rail. I'll take the foul to get back at the table.

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[cuetechasaurus]

I masse this shot, trying to get safe. I've seen Efren do the same thing, and he can execute it 4/5 times, as opposed to the kick, which I figure to be 3/5 times.

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The speed of the curve in the masse is just right for the cueball to die after spinning into your ball, so if you hit the correct side, you get safe. The only pitfall is letting up on your stroke and over spinning it, so that you hit the rail first and foul, but even then there is a chance you can hit the rail first, then your ball, then the rail again and it could come out safe.

I am very comfortable with short masses like this, much more comfortable than the kick, especially since you are rolling the kick on a bar table.

 

[Tommy-D]

> My shot is the exact same 2-railer Renard chose,and for the same reason,all you have to do is hit the 9 fairly full with nice soft speed and lock him the hell up. If you come in too high on the 9 you might wind up stacking the cue ball up on top of the 8,facing the rail with nothing but a cross side bank with a built in guaranteed double-hit foul,a mega-tough short distance thin cut up the long rail,or several other things that just might win you the game from here. You could also come in thin on the low side,and slide the 8 right into the 9,making it tough or impossible even with ball-in-hand. If you were playing ball-in-hand,you keep the 2 balls close to each other if the shot works out perfect,and should be a really simple out. You made the right choice here. The only thing I can possibly see bad about this shot is if you shot this against the wrong type of bar player. I had a similar shot come up a few weeks ago,but he left me way closer to the 8,and hooked on the 9. I thinned the 8 to send the cue ball on the same path as your kick,with the same end result,even though it wasn't ball-in-hand I still executed a perfectly legal though diabolical safety according to normal rules,and the guy just took a poke thru the balls and walked off muttering something about me shooting a (n-word pool) shot,and called me a sorry MF for not doing something that gave him an easy shot at the 8. This was in the finals of a single-rack match bar tournament with typical "house" rules,and when he missed the 8 and left me like this everyone thought he had it under control. WRONG! Tommy D.

 

[Andrew Manning]

> My shot is the exact same 2-railer Renard chose,and for the same reason,all you have to do is hit the 9 fairly full with nice soft speed and lock him the hell up. If you come in too high on the 9 you might wind up stacking the cue ball up on top of the 8,facing the rail with nothing but a cross side bank with a built in guaranteed double-hit foul,a mega-tough short distance thin cut up the long rail,or several other things that just might win you the game from here. You could also come in thin on the low side,and slide the 8 right into the 9,making it tough or impossible even with ball-in-hand. If you were playing ball-in-hand,you keep the 2 balls close to each other if the shot works out perfect,and should be a really simple out. You made the right choice here. The only thing I can possibly see bad about this shot is if you shot this against the wrong type of bar player. I had a similar shot come up a few weeks ago,but he left me way closer to the 8,and hooked on the 9. I thinned the 8 to send the cue ball on the same path as your kick,with the same end result,even though it wasn't ball-in-hand I still executed a perfectly legal though diabolical safety according to normal rules,and the guy just took a poke thru the balls and walked off muttering something about me shooting a (n-word pool) shot,and called me a sorry MF for not doing something that gave him an easy shot at the 8. This was in the finals of a single-rack match bar tournament with typical "house" rules,and when he missed the 8 and left me like this everyone thought he had it under control. WRONG! Tommy D.

I don't like this option because of the very strong possibility that you bump the 9 out of the way and leave a dead straight shot on the 8 up the rail in the corner. I like a one-rail kick with enough speed that you hit the nine, and the CB comes back off the rail far enough to make cutting the 8 all the way up the rail very difficult (CB lands at A, 9 lands at B):

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All he's got is a bank, and your 9 ball is wide open in the middle of the table. Unless you're playing someone who you think will make the bank shot with the pressure on. But I always like it when the other player is banking the 8, and my only ball is wide open. I figure I'm at a large advantage in that situation.

-Andrew