Kick shots

Hi again, I can't thank enough everyone for their time here.

Sorry I'm not good with uploading diagrams and I have caused some confusion, the Sid system is not what I'm looking for, first contact rail is the opposite long one.

I just returned from pool hall and after discussion with a couple of good players I have found what I'm looking for, I will try to draw it and upload it asap.
When you have your CB at a corner pocket (80) you aim at 40 on the opposite long rail to reach the corner pocket on the long origin rail.

As you move along the short cushion you establish reference lines by 10ths every 1/2 diamond (90 to 45 at opposite long rail is the first one) and if you wish to reach an obgect ball at 6 diamonds away from your starting long rail you just add 20 (2 diamonds away from 80 to 40 corner) and divide by 2 (so target point at opposite long rail is 55.

Keeping the same reference lines at origin short rail you add 5,10,15 for every diamond desired arrival at opposite short rail and divide again by 2.
Minor adjustments will be needed as you move closer to the target rail.
I'll try to come back with a drawing, it has been such a pleasure having this exchange of opinions, that's a really nice part of the game we all love.
Thank you all so much!!
Petros
 
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Ok, here is what we came up with my friend Costas Houliaras, one of the best players here in Greece:

http://s859.photobucket.com/user/PetrosAndrikop/media/001_zps8b7f5da1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

OB1 (the dashed one) comes off 20 at the arrival side rail and CB comes off at 100 according to the reference lines on the origin short rail.

100+20/2=60 (the numbers above at the target side rail).

Similar method applies for kicking to the opposite short rail:
OB2 (the dashed one) comes off at 10, same CB origin.

100+10/2=55, target numbers are the top ones again.

We are talking about perfect rolling CB, no side english.
One must take into consideration the "opening" angles according to ball placements and the adjustments that must be made as CB moves closer to target rail, even if it's placed on the same reference line since it dosen't come off the same origin line of aiming as you can see.

Similar systems should be available in 3C games, especially when kicking to opposite short rail in umbrella shots.

This should be good food for thought, thanks again everyone!
Petros
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Ok, here is what we came up with my friend Costas Houliaras, one of the best players here in Greece:

http://s859.photobucket.com/user/PetrosAndrikop/media/001_zps8b7f5da1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
...
Click to expand...
For small images, it is not necessary to use an external hosting service. If you can get the image on your screen, you can capture it with any of many methods and then post the image here using the paper-clip (attachment) icon above the editing window. Here is that image:
CropperCapture[52].jpg
We are talking about perfect rolling CB, no side english. One must take into consideration the "opening" angles according to ball placements and the adjustments that must be made as CB moves closer to target rail, even if it's placed on the same reference line since it doesn't come off the same origin line of aiming as you can see.
Click to expand...
If you hit the cue ball at the right height it begins perfect rolling immediately. In that case, the distance from the cushion is almost insignificant. The only remaining issue is whether the cue ball is still bouncing when it gets to the cushion. (The cue ball bounces on nearly every shot.)

(For the above capture, I used the "cropper" program which is free or nearly free. I understand that Windows may have a built-in screen capture feature.)
 
Thank you so much for your valuable input, I have really enjoyed all info provided by instructors and other fellow members!
I believe in the second case (kicking to the opposite short cushion) a compensation in target is more necessary than the first case about which you explained what happens.
Thanks again!
Petros
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Thank you so much for your valuable input, I have really enjoyed all info provided by instructors and other fellow members!
I believe in the second case (kicking to the opposite short cushion) a compensation in target is more necessary than the first case about which you explained what happens.
Thanks again!
Petros
Click to expand...
In the diagram, the lines seem to have the angle in equal to the angle out. That is often false even for a rolling cue ball without side spin.
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Yes, these are only "system oriented".
Click to expand...
Ok, but it is a poor system that does not take real ball reactions into account. One example of a system that works for shallower angles into the first rail was promoted by Bud Harris, former US 3-C champion. It is quite simple:

If a rolling cue ball goes into a cushion at a shallow angle (nearly parallel to the cushion), it leaves the cushion at an angle closer to the cushion by about 30% of the angle. That is, angle out (measured from the cushion) = 70% of the angle in. This works for either running or reverse side spin. The shot must be fairly soft.
 
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Almost all systems require compensations, this one could not be the exception...
Personally I was looking for a system about those shots without the use of extended diamonds or spots outside table but actual table diamond reference and I believe this does the job in more than a poor way, in any case nothing similar came out in this thread and something is always better than nothing...
I will know in a few days who described it first, I'm waiting for the related book/video from a friend.
In any case any similar system about the shots described in this diagram which is better than this one is surely welcomed by everyone.
Petros
 
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In order to be fair I have to admit that compensations regarding kicking at the opposite short cushion are quite difficult by this system, I apologize if I looked unfair or disrespectful in the previous post about the valuable info given.
Petros
 
zerox billiards was good and Jimmy reids dvd is wicked, billiard atlas books are really something to check out also.
 
Tough to get billiard atlas nowdays (seen a few parts of it though), zerox needs pay pal and I have a problem with that, I've watched Reid's dvd it's really good.
Thanks!
 
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if this diagram is close to what you are looking for ill lead you to the text
dd1.jpg
 
Looks quite there, thank you!
No, I didn't see it at Reid's dvds, I've watched most of it at a friend's place.. You can find diagrams of his systems on internet as well.
I'm waiting from another friend some similar material in a few days.
I think I've seen this diagram you present here somewhere.
 
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Lol. That IS the Sid system. It works long table and across table.
To use it end rail to end rail, start at diamond 8 (the far corner). Where your cue ball lies on the end rail, draw a parallel line to the system line, and divide the distance in half. There is another adjustment that need to be made. Across that distance, the cb will pick up a lot of forward roll which will make it go long off the side rail, so you can find a diamond adjustment for your table. If its going a diamond long, adjust a half diamond etc.
OR you can stun the ball with a stiff hit into the side rail with a below center hit on the cb and get closer to the correct target.
Example picture to follow
Chuck
 
Bear in mind you need a sliding ball with speed to make the hit. But even at that, you will need to get the feel of shortening a ball up from this type of kick.
Chuck
 

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