How do you get multiple quotes in one post?
Kiss Forward And The Question Of Overspin.
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
When you reply to a message with the "Quote" button, the QUOTE commands appear in brackets around the entire quoted message. You can divide the message into pieces and copy and past the bracketed stuff around each separate block, and you can insert your replies in between. This is how I respond to most messages that have several comments or questions.How do you get multiple quotes in one post?
I hope that makes sense.
Regards,
Dave
How do you get multiple quotes in one post?
edited: Dave beat me to it.
This taco is much more interesting than the exact spin of this and that. I'd hate to think that in an ahead set for $5000, Orcullo stops to analyze the overspin of this or that and what it's parallel to, oh shi@. Or whatever this is trying to explain. It ain't rocket science. See if Earl can explain it. Matter of fact, I'd love to have a beer with Earl and read all of this. Sorry guys, I play by feel and most people just don't analyze all of this to the extent of this. I'm not naming names and not starting sh@#, but most of the people that sit and debate this kind of thing in my home room, I give the six ball to. Not you guys, or maybe you guys. I don't know any of you. I just think this conversation is pointless. MY OPINION WHICH DOESN'T MEAN SH@#.
Last edited:
So your a much better player than we are. Okay.... And our conversation doesn't mean crap. However, you have responded to this thread not once but twice. What gives?
Have to agree with ya on this one. I've been playing since I was 6, so 40 yrs now. I never had a lesson until I was about 26 and had a good feel of speed by then. I just go with what feels right and run with it. I could'nt tell ya what a aiming system is either, I see people talk about CTE and other things. Never heard of back hand english or forehand english. WHAT THE HELL!!!!! You hit the cue ball on the right and it spins to the right, vice versa for left. Flip it let's play.:thumbup:
Here's a lesson on the "feel technique". Stand next to a pool table with student, toss under hand a cue ball back and forth. Now ask student "How did you know not to throw it over my head or down at my feet?" This is how you know how hard to hit the cue ball, it's called "feel." JMHO
The purpose of this type of discussion isn't to become a better player. The purpose is to better understand what is possible and what is not, and why. Obviously, some (and even many) people don't care; but to the people who do, the understanding can be interesting and beneficial.
Regards,
Dave
I generally get bored with this stuff too , usually cause after about a page and a half it just goes round and round arguing opinion.
But , there are some things to be learned that apply. Every so often , perhaps in a one pocket game or 14.1 I'll get in a sticky position and one of these useless theorys gives me an idea. When I pull off something I previously thought not possible I feel pretty good about it. It's cool to know why it worked too.
Coolest thing about forums is it's really easy to click the little X in the corner when your done listening.
Wish I could do that as easy at the pool room somethimes.
Sorry some of you are bored, but I think there is a practical insight to be gained here.
But now realize, that once the slide is over, the forward angular momentum (which creates the follow effect) is directly related to the CB forward speed, since the two are geared together, and not how high you hit the cue ball.
If you are aiming at an OB that you estimate is beyond the probable slide distance, the amount of follow you will get from the CB is less related to the elevation of the cue tip, and more related to the force or speed of the CB.
Therefore, for a distant shot where you want follow, why risk a miscue by hitting near the miscue limit? Hit moderately high, but with a lot of speed. You won't help yourself by trying to hit higher than what is safe.
My humble opinion.
- When you hit the CB dead center, it slides a certain distance before acquiring forward angular momentum that is related (through the gearing effect) to its forward speed.
- If you hit it higher, the slide distance is shorter.
- If you hit it near the miscue limit, the slide distance is near zero.
But now realize, that once the slide is over, the forward angular momentum (which creates the follow effect) is directly related to the CB forward speed, since the two are geared together, and not how high you hit the cue ball.
If you are aiming at an OB that you estimate is beyond the probable slide distance, the amount of follow you will get from the CB is less related to the elevation of the cue tip, and more related to the force or speed of the CB.
Therefore, for a distant shot where you want follow, why risk a miscue by hitting near the miscue limit? Hit moderately high, but with a lot of speed. You won't help yourself by trying to hit higher than what is safe.
My humble opinion.
Ah , but there's the rub , your own in fact.
If you hit it very hard and moderately high , you may still have less follow than center ball at a medium roll over the length of the table.
I agree with what I think you are saying. Let me restate my point this way:
Two CBs gearing along at the same forward speed have exactly the same angular momentum and will produce exactly the same follow angle, regardless of how high they were hit initially.
If you want maximum follow, hit high enough to safely ensure gearing starts before OB impact (Any higher is useless...), and then hit harder. I agree, hitting harder will require a slight upward adjustment to make sure gearing starts soon enough, but you don't have to be super precise, just safe.
The point is this:
hitting ultra high for a shot that will surely be rolling is an unnecessary risk and does not add to follow, BUT extra speed speed WILL increase angular momentum and WILL increase the follow effect provided the CB is gearing.
Two CBs gearing along at the same forward speed have exactly the same angular momentum and will produce exactly the same follow angle, regardless of how high they were hit initially.
If you want maximum follow, hit high enough to safely ensure gearing starts before OB impact (Any higher is useless...), and then hit harder. I agree, hitting harder will require a slight upward adjustment to make sure gearing starts soon enough, but you don't have to be super precise, just safe.
The point is this:
hitting ultra high for a shot that will surely be rolling is an unnecessary risk and does not add to follow, BUT extra speed speed WILL increase angular momentum and WILL increase the follow effect provided the CB is gearing.
Thank you for posting to Howcast. It's not only not banned but it's MUCH FASTER.
Ok, yes this is the shot I was thinking of.
It's not an example of overspin. When you hit the cue ball with top spin then it generates rpms equal to the force you hit the ball with. On this particular shot the cueball retains the spin even though it double kisses the first object ball. So whenever the cueball hits the second ball the spin can take effect and the ball THEN rolls in the direction of the spin. This is really not much different than a masse' shot.
There are also many variations of this shot and they come up a lot in one pocket.
Ok, yes this is the shot I was thinking of.
It's not an example of overspin. When you hit the cue ball with top spin then it generates rpms equal to the force you hit the ball with. On this particular shot the cueball retains the spin even though it double kisses the first object ball. So whenever the cueball hits the second ball the spin can take effect and the ball THEN rolls in the direction of the spin. This is really not much different than a masse' shot.
There are also many variations of this shot and they come up a lot in one pocket.
That is an important message that I think even some good players don't understand.
Regards,
Dave
Really we are not talking about the overspin that results from lets say a full-ball follow shot...
The question that these guys were really asking was from the path of the CB to the OB impact location. People actually believe that when you hit the CB and it revolves faster than normal roll.
Everyone was on the same page apart from you... then you start describing the period after CB/OB collision.
Yeah, we get it (again). You don't know sh!t; you don't want to know sh!t; knowing sh!t is for sissies.
Why do we need to know that?
Hope we didn't interrupt your cartoons.
pj
chgo
Nobody says overspin doesn't exist. What they say is that you can't create (much) overspin just by hitting the CB high - the CB has to be stopped/slowed by another ball while its topspin remains (like in your demonstration).
You're just misinterpreting what people say about it.
pj
chgo
You're just misinterpreting what people say about it.
pj
chgo
Sorry for the confusion. I was just trying to clarify, because Marcus' video at the beginning of the thread demonstrates overspin resulting from the CB kiss-back billiard. It doesn't demonstrate overspin off the tip. HSV B.26 - overspin with a follow shot demonstrates both types of overspin. However, as most people know, and as demonstrated in HSV B.26 - overspin with a follow shot and NV B.36 - Mike Page's overspin, it is very difficult to achieve overspin off the tip; and the amount possible is so small, it has no real practical use.
Actually, HSV B.26 - overspin with a follow shot shows that it is possible; although, the effect is small.
Sorry again if I got us off track,
Dave
keep on tracking, Dr Dave
I know that your 'off track' posts are appreciated a lot more than some of the the other contributions that have appeared here!
I know that your 'off track' posts are appreciated a lot more than some of the the other contributions that have appeared here!
The hardest part of these threads is getting everyone to agree what we're talking about...
For instance, 'topspin' vs 'gearing' vs 'forward angular momentum'. People in this thread have used all three of these to refer to the same thing, and in some cases, not the same thing. I tend to call it a rolling ball.
OR, 'topspin' vs 'high english', etc....for me, where you hit the ball and how it reacts are described separately. When I describe shots, I describe the cueball's result at impact with the OB (stun, draw, follow, left, right), not how to hit it. That way, aiming systems and spin arguments are moot. You either make the CB do what it should, or don't.
oh crap, now I'm off topic.
Any tacos left? I'm hungry.
-s
For instance, 'topspin' vs 'gearing' vs 'forward angular momentum'. People in this thread have used all three of these to refer to the same thing, and in some cases, not the same thing. I tend to call it a rolling ball.
OR, 'topspin' vs 'high english', etc....for me, where you hit the ball and how it reacts are described separately. When I describe shots, I describe the cueball's result at impact with the OB (stun, draw, follow, left, right), not how to hit it. That way, aiming systems and spin arguments are moot. You either make the CB do what it should, or don't.
oh crap, now I'm off topic.
Any tacos left? I'm hungry.
-s