Lasers and Training for a Perfect Stroke - Duplicate

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
A couple of people wanted to see what the shots looked like with a laser, so here is a 5 minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXDuqYMIFdc
With the camera slightly off center as shown, the laser line appears to be a little right of center on the cue ball - therefore it should also appear to be a little right of center when centered on the shaft - or your shaft isn't really quite centered.

Just something to look out for in these videos...

pj
chgo
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With the camera slightly off center as shown, the laser line appears to be a little right of center on the cue ball - therefore it should also appear to be a little right of center when centered on the shaft - or your shaft isn't really quite centered.

Just something to look out for in these videos...

pj
chgo

Yes, exactly. That's why I didn't really intend to spend too much time on any kind of analysis. The camera is not directly overhead because I don't have any kind of extension for the tripod to be able to do that right now. The main point was simply to show what it looks like to hit some shots with the laser.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dan just curious
does the light look centered to you now on how you align and are over the cue with your head/eye positions?
does it feel "different"?
"seeing straight"

It's a funny thing that I noticed even years ago when I used a yellow string on the table instead of a laser. When the laser is shining on center ball with the tip on the line the tip looks to be in the correct location. I used to cue up a tiny bit left of center but when I turn the laser on and place the tip at the laser line it still looks correct. Not sure why that is but maybe it is because we are talking about very small differences in tip position.

I think there is a little test that would be interesting. Have the laser set up on center ball but cover the laser light. Then have someone cue up to what they think is center ball. Remove the cover so the laser shines on true center. Now we can see how far off center the player is, if at all. The problem with having the laser on all the time is that if you can see the laser as you get down on the shot you can't help but place the tip there. Once there it will look correct to you! I was toying with the idea of setting this contraption up at a pool hall and let people set up to the cue ball with the light initially covered and see what kind of results we get.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's a funny thing that I noticed even years ago when I used a yellow string on the table instead of a laser. When the laser is shining on center ball with the tip on the line the tip looks to be in the correct location. I used to cue up a tiny bit left of center but when I turn the laser on and place the tip at the laser line it still looks correct. Not sure why that is but maybe it is because we are talking about very small differences in tip position.

I think there is a little test that would be interesting. Have the laser set up on center ball but cover the laser light. Then have someone cue up to what they think is center ball. Remove the cover so the laser shines on true center. Now we can see how far off center the player is, if at all. The problem with having the laser on all the time is that if you can see the laser as you get down on the shot you can't help but place the tip there. Once there it will look correct to you! I was toying with the idea of setting this contraption up at a pool hall and let people set up to the cue ball with the light initially covered and see what kind of results we get.
If you do that I would like to know the results
Great experiment
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
IMO you'd do better shooting stop shots rather than a rolling CB. Then you'd also see how grabbing or twisting the cue in your hand, as you strike the CB, what kind of effect it would have on the OB. I'm suggesting that you have some twisting going on with your stroke...minor as it may be. Putting a small colored dot on the ferrule (and turning the cue so the dot is straight up) will prove or disprove that you are adding grip pressure causing you to stroke off line. Nice video. Use a full stroke (pull the tip back to your hand) will also show flaws in your delivery.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

A couple of people wanted to see what the shots looked like with a laser, so here is a 5 minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXDuqYMIFdc
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO you'd do better shooting stop shots rather than a rolling CB. Then you'd also see how grabbing or twisting the cue in your hand, as you strike the CB, what kind of effect it would have on the OB. I'm suggesting that you have some twisting going on with your stroke...minor as it may be. Putting a small colored dot on the ferrule (and turning the cue so the dot is straight up) will prove or disprove that you are adding grip pressure causing you to stroke off line. Nice video. Use a full stroke (pull the tip back to your hand) will also show flaws in your delivery.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Thanks for the comments. It really has been an instructive tool.

I find that each shot, follow, stop and draw, are different, meaning that just because I can execute a follow shot along the exact center line it does not follow necessarily that I can execute a draw the same way. I think it is because the cue lays in the hand at a different angle for each shot and/or I might be hitting the draw shots harder, causing a different result.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...see how grabbing or twisting the cue in your hand, as you strike the CB, what kind of effect it would have on the OB.
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

I find that each shot, follow, stop and draw, are different, meaning that just because I can execute a follow shot along the exact center line it does not follow necessarily that I can execute a draw the same way. I think it is because the cue lays in the hand at a different angle for each shot and/or I might be hitting the draw shots harder, causing a different result.
I think it's often (usually?) what Scott mentions: we tend to "grab" the cue during the stroke on harder shots. I've spent a lot of time finding the grip that works for me at all speeds without changing during the stroke - has made a big difference for me.

pj
chgo
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's often (usually?) what Scott mentions: we tend to "grab" the cue during the stroke on harder shots. I've spent a lot of time finding the grip that works for me at all speeds without changing during the stroke - has made a big difference for me.

pj
chgo

When I'm a little off and not executing the shots the first thing I try is relaxing the grip hand. It often fixes the problem.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
When I'm a little off and not executing the shots the first thing I try is relaxing the grip hand. It often fixes the problem.
Fixing the stance/stroke is a never ending game of whack-a-mole. After a few days of feeling that something was a little off I finally discovered today that my shoulder/torso position had gotten a little lazy - a tweak that a bystander couldn't even see and suddenly everything looked "straight" again.

I hate this game.

pj
chgo
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Totally agree with you Dan, for the most part. For me, the tension (or lack thereof) is the same for all shots...even the break! It's all about speed and timing. For you, what I meant is that the stop shot is the absolute first shot you have completely master...at one, two, and three diamond distances between the CB and OB. Use the laser to lay down the paper circles in a perfect straight line. Then practice with video. Focus the video on your shooting arm. Draw and follow come immediately after stop shots. Then tangent lines, and how draw and follow affect them. JMO

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Thanks for the comments. It really has been an instructive tool.

I find that each shot, follow, stop and draw, are different, meaning that just because I can execute a follow shot along the exact center line it does not follow necessarily that I can execute a draw the same way. I think it is because the cue lays in the hand at a different angle for each shot and/or I might be hitting the draw shots harder, causing a different result.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Totally agree with you Dan, for the most part. For me, the tension (or lack thereof) is the same for all shots...even the break! It's all about speed and timing. For you, what I meant is that the stop shot is the absolute first shot you have completely master...at one, two, and three diamond distances between the CB and OB. Use the laser to lay down the paper circles in a perfect straight line. Then practice with video. Focus the video on your shooting arm. Draw and follow come immediately after stop shots. Then tangent lines, and how draw and follow affect them. JMO

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Yes, I agree. In my case, I've been doing these drills for decades and the "follow until the two balls collide" idea required the high level of accuracy I was looking for. I certainly wouldn't recommend such a drill for a beginner.

I try to keep the lack of tension the same for most all shots. It's just that the cue lays in the hand a little differently for draw or follow so you have to be aware of that and make sure that doesn't cause an unexpected gripping of the cue.

I can't speak for anyone else, of course, because I'm not an instructor, but it sounds like this is a pretty universal idea.
 
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