last night at Amsterdam, Sigel, Hohmann others....

Great evening for pool enthusiasts last evening at Amsterdam Billiard club. Around 9:30 pm, Mike Sigel came in along with Mataya and Larry Schwartz. The Germans were also well represented by Thorsten, Oliver Ortmann, Nico Otterman and young sensation Nico Wehner.

Tony Robles matched up with Otterman for an informal game which Tony won. Mostly the other guys were just hitting balls to stay in stroke.

I had the opportunity to play (rack for) Thorsten, and just watching his phenomenal play was truly inspiring.

Things are heating up for the big tournament tommorow.

If anyone is interested in supporting a charity benifit tonight, the Hilton will be hosting a pro-am tournament, a vip tournament and a amatuer challenge (gets to play a pro for a small donation). Festivities will begin at 7pm (maybe 7:30) and if you just want to sweat the action, I believe admission prices are 15 bucks.

I hope to see you all there, tonight or this week.

RG
 
IPT qualifier

I saw larry and jimmy at the orland park qualifier for the ipt, i didnt realize it was him until deno told me.
 
What are all the "big guns" in New York for?

Too bad I couldn't be there last night! What are all these guys getting ready for in addition to the charity event?
 
Who is Nico Wehner and T. Holmanns 14.1 coach? In the unlikely event I get to Germany any time soon, i'd like to take a lesson from this guy.

His results speak for themselves- TH is a monster and a 15 year old running 100's is a pretty good sign his coach knows what he is doing.
 
Mika was at Corner Billiards playing some 14.1, and I tell ya that his offensive arsenal is quite impressive. He breaks out balls with such confidence and power.
 
Warning --- this post is long. No offense will be taken if you hit the brakes now.

Yeah, it was pretty cool when Sigel walked in with Ortmann, with whom he had just dined. It reminded me of the good old days at the Golden Q twenty five years ago when it was not a rare occurrence that two pros walked in unexpectedly to shoot some. Hohmann and several other stars of the game followed shortly.

Still, the gallery belonged to Sigel. Nostroke and I were quick to find a couple of good seats to watch Sigel. Craig Riley (TheOne) and Zion Zvi stopped practicing together to watch, too.

I was somewhat amused by the fact that Sigel, whom I've never known well, but who knows me as an old friend of Irving Crane and as one of the game's most enduring fans, took the trouble to tell me before he began his practice that he'd had a drink or two over dinner, and that he hadn't been overly keen on coming by Amsterdam for a practice but that dinner buddy Ortmann talked him into it. Still, Mike hit them pretty sporty in his practice, which was not one in which he really tried to run balls, as he moved balls around from time to time. His mechanics looked much more solid than in the televised match against Loree Jon.

Mike probably practiced for about 45 minutes, and when he finished, he and I had a long chat.

Mike, who seemed to be in a really good mood, conversed with a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

For about ten minutes, Mike and I reflected on some of the more memorable matches I'd seen him play in his prime, even on specific shots at times.

Subsequently, the subject turned, for a few minutes, to the IPT King of the Hill event in Orlando. Mike confessed he'd been rooting for Manalo to beat Efren to make it to the finals, but then gave Manalo a rave review as a "guy who will be very tough to beat" in future IPT events. He also spoke of how tough it was to play Efren "cold," meaning without having played a single match up to that point. Finally, he spoke quite highly of Karen Corr's effort in the King of the Hill event, which I thought was very classy.

Then, what I found to be the most interesting part of our chat, followed. Mike was eager to compare the playing conditions of today to those of yesteryear, especially in the presence of somebody he knew remembered the good old days well. I found we were on the exact same page on this subject. We agreed that with slower cloth and tighter pockets, straight pool is a completely different game, most notably when it came to breaking the pack at the beginning of each rack. We reflected on how much harder the break shot had to be hit back then and how, even then, only a few balls might come into play. We agreed that this made it critical to get tight shape on the break shots, and that the only way to do so was through exceptional pattern play. We also agreed that those having a more powerful stroke had a bigger edge back then relative to others, and that the switch to Simonis cloth greatly devalued this advantage. In fact, he made the truly memorable remark that once Simonis became the standard, "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me."

Most of all, Mike was very friendly and seemed very excited to be here for the tournament. I wish him every success and appreciate that he spent over twenty minutes conversing with me.

Where has the time gone? It was just twenty eight years ago that my friend Irving Crane introduced me to Mike, calling him a "player to watch.' Turned out to be a major understatement!
 
I hate all of you that can walk into a place like that and see those great players matching up and practicing. My friend and I used to be practicing in the various poolhalls in the Seattle area and occasionally watch some $1000/rack 1P between Harry Platis and whoever was trying to get his money. Some very good players in the area, but no actual pros that you see on TV. So........ :P~~~~~~~~ Take that.:D
 
sjm said:
Warning --- this post is long. No offense will be taken if you hit the brakes now.

Yeah, it was pretty cool when Sigel walked in with Ortmann, with whom he had just dined. It reminded me of the good old days at the Golden Q twenty five years ago when it was not a rare occurrence that two pros walked in unexpectedly to shoot some. Hohmann and several other stars of the game followed shortly.

Still, the gallery belonged to Sigel. Nostroke and I were quick to find a couple of good seats to watch Sigel. Craig Riley (TheOne) and Zion Zvi stopped practicing together to watch, too.

I was somewhat amused by the fact that Sigel, whom I've never known well, but who knows me as an old friend of Irving Crane and as one of the game's most enduring fans, took the trouble to tell me before he began his practice that he'd had a drink or two over dinner, and that he hadn't been overly keen on coming by Amsterdam for a practice but that dinner buddy Ortmann talked him into it. Still, Mike hit them pretty sporty in his practice, which was not one in which he really tried to run balls, as he moved balls around from time to time. His mechanics looked much more solid than in the televised match against Loree Jon.

Mike probably practiced for about 45 minutes, and when he finished, he and I had a long chat.

Mike, who seemed to be in a really good mood, conversed with a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

For about ten minutes, Mike and I reflected on some of the more memorable matches I'd seen him play in his prime, even on specific shots at times.

Subsequently, the subject turned, for a few minutes, to the IPT King of the Hill event in Orlando. Mike confessed he'd been rooting for Manalo to beat Efren to make it to the finals, but then gave Manalo a rave review as a "guy who will be very tough to beat" in future IPT events. He also spoke of how tough it was to play Efren "cold," meaning without having played a single match up to that point. Finally, he spoke quite highly of Karen Corr's effort in the King of the Hill event, which I thought was very classy.

Then, what I found to be the most interesting part of our chat, followed. Mike was eager to compare the playing conditions of today to those of yesteryear, especially in the presence of somebody he knew remembered the good old days well. I found we were on the exact same page on this subject. We agreed that with slower cloth and tighter pockets, straight pool is a completely different game, most notably when it came to breaking the pack at the beginning of each rack. We reflected on how much harder the break shot had to be hit back then and how, even then, only a few balls might come into play. We agreed that this made it critical to get tight shape on the break shots, and that the only way to do so was through exceptional pattern play. We also agreed that those having a more powerful stroke had a bigger edge back then relative to others, and that the switch to Simonis cloth greatly devalued this advantage. In fact, he made the truly memorable remark that once Simonis became the standard, "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me."

Most of all, Mike was very friendly and seemed very excited to be here for the tournament. I wish him every success and appreciate that he spent over twenty minutes conversing with me.

Where has the time gone? It was just twenty eight years ago that my friend Irving Crane introduced me to Mike, calling him a "player to watch.' Turned out to be a major understatement!
Great story, sjm.

I was actually in the West Side last night, but I was tired and decided to go home and crash. At 1AM a friend calls me to tell me what I had missed.:mad:

Oh well, I'll see you Friday in the place to be.
 
sjm,

"The Deacon" was one of my favorite all-time players. I thought he was a fine gentleman, and his mechanics were superb. Feel free to come with some Irving Crane stories anytime. Thanks.
 
It sounds like you could have started playing the world championship right there at the Amsterdam Billiard Club:D
 
sjm said:
Warning --- this post is long. No offense will be taken if you hit the brakes now.

Yeah, it was pretty cool when Sigel walked in with Ortmann, with whom he had just dined. It reminded me of the good old days at the Golden Q twenty five years ago when it was not a rare occurrence that two pros walked in unexpectedly to shoot some. Hohmann and several other stars of the game followed shortly.

Still, the gallery belonged to Sigel. Nostroke and I were quick to find a couple of good seats to watch Sigel. Craig Riley (TheOne) and Zion Zvi stopped practicing together to watch, too.

I was somewhat amused by the fact that Sigel, whom I've never known well, but who knows me as an old friend of Irving Crane and as one of the game's most enduring fans, took the trouble to tell me before he began his practice that he'd had a drink or two over dinner, and that he hadn't been overly keen on coming by Amsterdam for a practice but that dinner buddy Ortmann talked him into it. Still, Mike hit them pretty sporty in his practice, which was not one in which he really tried to run balls, as he moved balls around from time to time. His mechanics looked much more solid than in the televised match against Loree Jon.

Mike probably practiced for about 45 minutes, and when he finished, he and I had a long chat.

Mike, who seemed to be in a really good mood, conversed with a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

For about ten minutes, Mike and I reflected on some of the more memorable matches I'd seen him play in his prime, even on specific shots at times.

Subsequently, the subject turned, for a few minutes, to the IPT King of the Hill event in Orlando. Mike confessed he'd been rooting for Manalo to beat Efren to make it to the finals, but then gave Manalo a rave review as a "guy who will be very tough to beat" in future IPT events. He also spoke of how tough it was to play Efren "cold," meaning without having played a single match up to that point. Finally, he spoke quite highly of Karen Corr's effort in the King of the Hill event, which I thought was very classy.

Then, what I found to be the most interesting part of our chat, followed. Mike was eager to compare the playing conditions of today to those of yesteryear, especially in the presence of somebody he knew remembered the good old days well. I found we were on the exact same page on this subject. We agreed that with slower cloth and tighter pockets, straight pool is a completely different game, most notably when it came to breaking the pack at the beginning of each rack. We reflected on how much harder the break shot had to be hit back then and how, even then, only a few balls might come into play. We agreed that this made it critical to get tight shape on the break shots, and that the only way to do so was through exceptional pattern play. We also agreed that those having a more powerful stroke had a bigger edge back then relative to others, and that the switch to Simonis cloth greatly devalued this advantage. In fact, he made the truly memorable remark that once Simonis became the standard, "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me."

Most of all, Mike was very friendly and seemed very excited to be here for the tournament. I wish him every success and appreciate that he spent over twenty minutes conversing with me.

Where has the time gone? It was just twenty eight years ago that my friend Irving Crane introduced me to Mike, calling him a "player to watch.' Turned out to be a major understatement!


MIke also mentioned Manalo's break as unreal and better and harder than Bustamante's. This is amazing considering Manalo, from what i know, was a snooker player til somewhat recently, Crazy.
 
Hi Stu. I read this story about what Sigel had to say and what I'm about to say is the first thing that comes to mind. While I'm sure there is a great deal of truth to Sigel's statments about playing conditions, I do question that as a basis for bringing back the "old" cloth. Each generation of player could say the same thing that Sigel is saying now about the generation after them. Clearly, plastic balls are easier to play with than clay balls. Without doubt, by Sigel's own way of thinking, the "old" cloth that Sigel wants plays easier than the "older" felt that guys like Mosconi played on and, without a doubt, it's easier to run balls on the 4 1/2' x 9' than it is to run them on the 5'x10' with 4" pockets. This will be the first time in pool's history, that I know of, that a professional tour is regressing in equipment to satisfy players from 1 generation. Why not take it all the way? Why not just go back to clay balls, 5x10 tables with 4" pockets and real FELT? After all, Greenleaf might roll over in his grave if he saw how "easy" the equipment was in Sigel's heyday. He could say the same thing Sigel said - "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me". I'm a fan of Sigel's game. I think the guy was nothing short of masterful in his prime, but every sport has evolved as far as equipment is concerned. Halting advancements in equipment to satisfy a small group of players from 1 generation just doesn't make sense to me.

sjm said:
Then, what I found to be the most interesting part of our chat, followed. Mike was eager to compare the playing conditions of today to those of yesteryear, especially in the presence of somebody he knew remembered the good old days well. I found we were on the exact same page on this subject. We agreed that with slower cloth and tighter pockets, straight pool is a completely different game, most notably when it came to breaking the pack at the beginning of each rack. We reflected on how much harder the break shot had to be hit back then and how, even then, only a few balls might come into play. We agreed that this made it critical to get tight shape on the break shots, and that the only way to do so was through exceptional pattern play. We also agreed that those having a more powerful stroke had a bigger edge back then relative to others, and that the switch to Simonis cloth greatly devalued this advantage. In fact, he made the truly memorable remark that once Simonis became the standard, "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me."
 
Jimmy M. said:
Hi Stu. I read this story about what Sigel had to say and what I'm about to say is the first thing that comes to mind. While I'm sure there is a great deal of truth to Sigel's statments about playing conditions, I do question that as a basis for bringing back the "old" cloth. Each generation of player could say the same thing that Sigel is saying now about the generation after them. Clearly, plastic balls are easier to play with than clay balls. Without doubt, by Sigel's own way of thinking, the "old" cloth that Sigel wants plays easier than the "older" felt that guys like Mosconi played on and, without a doubt, it's easier to run balls on the 4 1/2' x 9' than it is to run them on the 5'x10' with 4" pockets. This will be the first time in pool's history, that I know of, that a professional tour is regressing in equipment to satisfy players from 1 generation. Why not take it all the way? Why not just go back to clay balls, 5x10 tables with 4" pockets and real FELT? After all, Greenleaf might roll over in his grave if he saw how "easy" the equipment was in Sigel's heyday. He could say the same thing Sigel said - "all of a sudden, there were a lot of guys who played like me". I'm a fan of Sigel's game. I think the guy was nothing short of masterful in his prime, but every sport has evolved as far as equipment is concerned. Halting advancements in equipment to satisfy a small group of players from 1 generation just doesn't make sense to me.


i happen to agree in general. you can't have baseball players playing with those old leather gloves.

but i think there can be a few "changes"....to 10' tables/tighter pockets, and the slow cloth. i have no problem with this or any change that makes the entry point in professional pool tougher. the idea that a hot A+++ or a very good young player can beat a very good seasoned pro on any given night is ridiculous. the game should be tougher than that.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Hi Stu. I read this story about what Sigel had to say and what I'm about to say is the first thing that comes to mind. While I'm sure there is a great deal of truth to Sigel's statments about playing conditions, I do question that as a basis for bringing back the "old" cloth. Each generation of player could say the same thing that Sigel is saying now about the generation after them......

Great post, Jimmy. Equipment evolves over time in most sports. It's just another reason that players of one generation are difficult to compare to those of another.

I agree with you that going back to old equipment would be pointless. Irving Crane told me on more than one occasion that he felt the switch away from the 5 x 10 was not to his liking, negating much of the advantage he enjoyed for being taller than most of his rivals. I think most would agree now that the 4 1/2 x 9 is more suitatable for players of average height. And now, Mike Sigel, Irving's protege, tells me he prefers the older cloth, and I agree with Mike that the faster cloth has leveled the playing field in many ways when it comes to straight pool, but as you correctly point out, it's just the natural progression of things in most games and sports.

What Mike and I saw eye to eye on was how the equipment differences between today and 25 years ago have changed straight pool. We didn't discuss it, but in view of the IPT's choice to use the old, slow cloth, I can safely say that Mike and I don't see eye to eye on whether the old equipment should, once again, be used in top level competition.

Thanks for sharing your very well considered thoughts on the subject.
 
juniorchamp_ktm said:
I saw larry and jimmy at the orland park qualifier for the ipt, i didnt realize it was him until deno told me.


Hey, i saw you there, too. Didn't realize it was you until just now. Did you get that stuff I sent?
 
I've said it before, but I like playing on nap cloth as long as the humidity is low and the tables are clean. Hitting the shots with a little umph gets me into stroke much quicker. I grew up on it, and played better on it at the bowling alley where I practiced sometimes....not to mention I seemed to get fewer "skids".

Gerry
 
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