Lawsuit

[Eieio59]

As time passes, momentum is gathering for a lawsuit. No clear information and no payments is unacceptable. I have been contacted by an attorney who is interested in pursuing this in a rather unique way. He is ready to act. If there are any players who may be interested, please PM me. No details yet or promises, but he seems to have his business in order and be well aware of the situation. This is now the 3rd attorney who has contacted me, so I expect that things are starting to roll. Please PM with your name, contact info and a breakdown of the amount due (including the promised Chicago/England payout).

TJones

 

[Da Poet]

Respectfully, as a completely outside observer, I think at some point an end to the speculation may be welcome by more than just the immediately affected parties.

Okay BCA! Are you gonna help or not!

 

[macguy]

As time passes, momentum is gathering for a lawsuit. No clear information and no payments is unacceptable. I have been contacted by an attorney who is interested in pursuing this in a rather unique way. He is ready to act. If there are any players who may be interested, please PM me. No details yet or promises, but he seems to have his business in order and be well aware of the situation. This is now the 3rd attorney who has contacted me, so I expect that things are starting to roll. Please PM with your name, contact info and a breakdown of the amount due (including the promised Chicago/England payout).

TJones

Unless you were owed originally $50,000 or more it is not worth it. You have already been paid I think about 45%. The lawyer will take 33% to 40% of the remaining amount due. Don't look for him to expend any resources to win any kind of case, all he is interested in is negotiating a settlement. No one is being dragged into court. A settlement could be as little as half of the remaining amount and remember he gets 1/3 or more of that. You have a better chance squeezing as many additional payments out of KT as you can till he stops paying.

Once you start any legal stuff he will not pay another cent. In fact if he is shown to have been acting in good faith based on the circumstances and you cause him to spend money on a legal defense you will be successfully sued for his legal costs. I would not be surprised if the lawyer talking to you was not put up to it by KT. How do you know you can trust him? Either way it will be a loser. At this point Get what you can and forget it.

Or at this point maybe having a representee just make a settlement with him right now would be the best path. Forget paying percentages to some sleazy lawyer. My guess you would come out ahead that way and get this over with. That is what everybody wants anyway. At that point those with the faith may try to get KT to do something again of some kind.

He may very well be interested in sponsoring a few big money open tournaments keeping the rights to them for distribution. I could see him doing that. Who doesn't want to play in a few $100,000 + tournaments? Nothing at all can happen till you all get this behind you. I have successfully done business with people in the past that were the biggest sleaze balls you ever met. KT is no different, sell him an idea and he may sign on, that is what you want isn't it?

 

[enzo]

Unless you were owed originally $50,000 or more it is not worth it. You have already been paid I think about 45%. The lawyer will take 33% to 40% of the remaining amount due. Don't look for him expend any resources to win any kind of case, all he is interested in is negotiating a settlement. No one is being dragged into court. A settlement could be as little as half of the remaining amount and remember he gets 1/3 or more of that. You have a better chance squeezing as many additional payments out of KT as you can till he stops paying.

Once you start any legal stuff he will not pay another cent. In fact if he is shown to have been acting in good faith based on the circumstances and you cause him to spend money on a legal defense you will be successfully sued for his legal costs. I would not be surprised if the lawyer talking to you was not put up to it by KT. How do you know you can trust him. Either way it will be a loser. At this point Get what you can and forget it.

the way you put it, it sounds to me like KT planned to pay out just enough for it not to be worth it for players to sue.

 

[macguy]

the way you put it, it sounds to me like KT planned to pay out just enough for it not to be worth it for players to sue.

I don't now if he planed it that way but that is where they are now. All they would be suing for is owed money, there are no damages to demonstrate. All they could get is what the IPT has to pay and my guess is the IPT has nothing in the way of assets. That is why I know the lawyer just wants to take a shot of getting a piece of a settlement. He would be the only winner.

 

[charlieb]

I didn't know that the players had received 4 11% pmts. I thought they had just received 3 11% pmts, or 1/3rd of their $.

 

[macguy]

I didn't know that the players had received 4 11% pmts. I thought they had just received 3 11% pmts, or 1/3rd of their $.

I haven't been following it that close lately but I thought they did get a payment beyond the original three.

 

[jay helfert]

I haven't been following it that close lately but I thought they did get a payment beyond the original three.

Correct, they're up to four or 44% of what they are owed. And it's only eight months after the tournament ended. At this rate, they will be paid off by early 2008. And then they can start the new "I Pay Late" tour.

 

[Bozo]

Macguy

I somewhat agree with your analysis but I am not an expert.
One added thought; Some people mention the promises the promotor made to pay personally but I am assuming that the promises were made based on an assumption that the shows would do reasonably well and he would pay the difference and not pay for the bust that happened. I am wondering if a judge might consider this.
Also where would you end the lawsuits? Would you try to get the 100k a year promised to everybody? Would a judge think that the promotor was not in his right mind by promising a 100k and that the participants should have known this?
Once you get the lawyers going, what you think is cut and dry can be pummeled with smokescreens!
I am not seeing the card players as much on TV now so perhaps people are going on to other things.

 

[wayne]

Correct, they're up to four or 44% of what they are owed. And it's only eight months after the tournament ended. At this rate, they will be paid off by early 2008. And then they can start the new "I Pay Late" tour.

Wow Jay when did you get so optimistic, "paid off by early 2008", I think all of the players owed money would be in heaven if this occurred. LOL

 

[skins]

huh???

Unless you were owed originally $50,000 or more it is not worth it. You have already been paid I think about 45%. The lawyer will take 33% to 40% of the remaining amount due. Don't look for him to expend any resources to win any kind of case, all he is interested in is negotiating a settlement. No one is being dragged into court. A settlement could be as little as half of the remaining amount and remember he gets 1/3 or more of that. You have a better chance squeezing as many additional payments out of KT as you can till he stops paying.

Once you start any legal stuff he will not pay another cent. In fact if he is shown to have been acting in good faith based on the circumstances and you cause him to spend money on a legal defense you will be successfully sued for his legal costs. I would not be surprised if the lawyer talking to you was not put up to it by KT. How do you know you can trust him? Either way it will be a loser. At this point Get what you can and forget it.

Or at this point maybe having a representee just make a settlement with him right now would be the best path. Forget paying percentages to some sleazy lawyer. My guess you would come out ahead that way and get this over with. That is what everybody wants anyway. At that point those with the faith may try to get KT to do something again of some kind.

He may very well be interested in sponsoring a few big money open tournaments keeping the rights to them for distribution. I could see him doing that. Who doesn't want to play in a few $100,000 + tournaments? Nothing at all can happen till you all get this behind you. I have successfully done business with people in the past that were the biggest sleaze balls you ever met. KT is no different, sell him an idea and he may sign on, that is what you want isn't it?

sorry mac, but to me some of your comments make no sense. you don't have to be owed $50,000 or more to justify settlement or judgment, it's all the same result no matter how much you're owed, money for those who are owed, wether it be $1,000 or $100,000. i think any money from someone who won't pay under normal circumstances is better then none from someone who would under any. this is as close to a slam dunk case as can be, not for KT, and as far as him not paying a cent if he's sued, tell me how this can be after a judgment is levied against him, and it would be, and some his assets are frozen until payment rendered? Kt is screwed and he's just biding his time to try and find a way out or prolong his anguish. the more time you give him the more ways he can find to continue the scam. maybe even get some to believe that a new arrangement was accepted and the old one null and void. imo you go after him now or loose more. i'd love to see this guy finally get what he deserves.

 

[bb81]

Pretty sure this has been posted on here recently, but I couldn't find it. Here is one of the letters that I received from the IPT recently. The only reason I get these, is because I put a friend of mine in the tournament and he did very well. I received this on April 23rd. I highlighted the area I thought was on-topic for the thread.


"Dear IPT Players & Supporters,



Here are some updates regarding the IPT. The IPT is not over. The dream of building a professional major billiards tour is alive and well. The setbacks and struggles we have faced have been very real and quite large. Slowly and steadily the executive management team of the IPT has been diligently working on overcoming these challenges, revamping the IPT business model, and reorganizing the IPT to move forward. We are all frustrated by the lack of speed in this turnaround. However, please be encouraged with the knowledge that a reorganized, and re-energized IPT will launch soon. In the words of Napolean Hill “In all adversity there are the seeds of an equal and greater opportunity.” My personal desire to see the IPT as the major world-wide tour in pool is stronger now than ever before. Specifically, the major updates are as follows:



* All players from the World Open will continue to be paid each month or every other month as cash flow allows. You will all be paid in full before the next IPT tournament.
* All players who paid a qualifying entry fee will be refunded in full their entry fee if the 2007 Tour does not happen in full as we originally planned. If the tournament schedule is cut short or modified, which is very likely to be the case, we will refund you in full. Your patience regarding this is appreciated. We will make this up to you in the future. We should know the status of the 2007 Tour within the next several months.

Your support and patience is appreciated. Your frustration and disappointment is acknowledged. Nobody is more financially committed to this venture than me. Nobody has more money at stake than I do.



Currently we are making headway on several promising business fronts. Major companies are seriously evaluating sponsorship of the IPT for the 2007 and 2008 seasons. A merger or acquisition of the IPT by a large business is being evaluated. Concurrently taking the IPT public is also an option being worked on and discussed.



I clearly see in my mind the day when I will stand before you all in a players meeting as we begin our next tournament and proudly say that the IPT is back and here to stay!



Very truly yours,



Kevin Trudeau"

 

[macguy]

sorry mac, but to me some of your comments make no sense. you don't have to be owed $50,000 or more to justify settlement or judgment, it's all the same result no matter how much you're owed, money for those who are owed, wether it be $1,000 or $100,000. i think any money from someone who won't pay under normal circumstances is better then none from someone who would under any. this is as close to a slam dunk case as can be, not for KT, and as far as him not paying a cent if he's sued, tell me how this can be after a judgment is levied against him, and it would be, and some his assets are frozen until payment rendered? Kt is screwed and he's just biding his time to try and find a way out or prolong his anguish. the more time you give him the more ways he can find to continue the scam. maybe even get some to believe that a new arrangement was accepted and the old one null and void. imo you go after him now or loose more. i'd love to see this guy finally get what he deserves.

Are you kidding, he has already almost paid half the money. A law suit at this point would be deemed frivolous and he would have a lock at winning a counter suit for legal costs. Not to mention he most likely has been paying out of pocket. That will stop in an instant and the only assets exposed will be that of the IPT and rest assured there are none. Any victory will be worthless. This is not criminal law it is civil law, you drag someone into court over a thing like this and you can end up owing him more then he owes you.

The reason I use the number of $50,000 is because if that player has already collected 44% or $22,000. There is a remaining $28,000 owed, If the lawyer gets a settlement of say half of the remaining amount that would be $14,000 and the lawyer will get about $5600 or that leaving just $8400 for the player. Do you realize if they players gets only one more payments from KT that is $5500 and that may arrive in a few weeks. The legal settlement could take who knows how long and then the deal could break down sending everybody back to square one and another year could go by with no more money if for no other reason then KT will screw them around just for the hell of it.

Not to mention a possible counter suit. They will be playing his game now, he is a master at being sued. If I was owed money by him, I would just have a representative negotiate a settlement and the rest of the players could do what they want. Want to sue him, go ahead but leave me out of it.

When I said if he is sued he will stop paying, I meant he will have no more reason to pay anything at that point. The law suit could take years if he wants it to and they BETTER win. Because if they lose, and they very well could, since he seems to be acting in good faith at this point, it will cost every player listed in that suit big time.

 

[nfty9er]

What are you talking about?

Are you kidding, he has already almost paid half the money. A law suit at this point would be deemed frivolous and he would have a lock at winning a counter suit for legal costs. Not to mention he most likely has been paying out of pocket. That will stop in an instant and the only assets exposed will be that of the IPT and rest assured there are none. Any victory will be worthless. This is not criminal law it is civil law, you drag someone into court over a thing like this and you can end up owing him more then he owes you.

The reason I use the number of $50,000 is because if that player has already collected 44% or $22,000. There is a remaining $28,000 owed, If the lawyer gets a settlement of say half of the remaining amount that would be $14,000 and the lawyer will get about $5600 or that leaving just $8400 for the player. Do you realize if they players gets only one more payments from KT that is $5500 and that may arrive in a few weeks. The legal settlement could take who knows how long and then the deal could break down sending everybody back to square one and another year could go by with no more money if for no other reason then KT will screw them around just for the hell of it.

Not to mention a possible counter suit. They will be playing his game now, he is a master at being sued. If I was owed money by him, I would just have a representative negotiate a settlement and the rest of the players could do what they want. Want to sue him, go ahead but leave me out of it.

When I said if he is sued he will stop paying, I meant he will have no more reason to pay anything at that point. The law suit could take years if he wants it to and they BETTER win. Because if they lose, and they very well could, since he seems to be acting in good faith at this point, it will cost every player listed in that suit big time.

Are you a lawyer? If not maybe you should talk to one first. Now don't get me wrong I am all for the players and not against your reasoning if the facts were as you say but they are not.
First of all you can make any deal you want with a lawyer, they are not restricted to 40% vig. Those figures ususally come from lawsuits filed for personal injury lawsuits or negligence. Most money owed lawsuits can be negotiated differently and usually are. You can pay your lawyer hourly and he will file suit for lawyer fees if they win. You can work out extra payment for any amount the lawyer thinks is fair. Not all lawyers rip you off, they work for you, that is their job.
Also if I win a $50,000 lawsuit of money you owe me, I can go after almost any asset you have, I am not restricted to IPT assests. Ask O.J. Simpson. If you get a judgment there are numerous ways to try and collect.
And tell me how a lawsuit filed by a plaintiff for money absolutely owed to me and admitted by a defendant he owes it be deemed frivolous?

 

[macguy]

Are you a lawyer? If not maybe you should talk to one first. Now don't get me wrong I am all for the players and not against your reasoning if the facts were as you say but they are not.
First of all you can make any deal you want with a lawyer, they are not restricted to 40% vig. Those figures ususally come from lawsuits filed for personal injury lawsuits or negligence. Most money owed lawsuits can be negotiated differently and usually are. You can pay your lawyer hourly and he will file suit for lawyer fees if they win. You can work out extra payment for any amount the lawyer thinks is fair. Not all lawyers rip you off, they work for you, that is their job.
Also if I win a $50,000 lawsuit of money you owe me, I can go after almost any asset you have, I am not restricted to IPT assests. Ask O.J. Simpson. If you get a judgment there are numerous ways to try and collect.
And tell me how a lawsuit filed by a plaintiff for money absolutely owed to me and admitted by a defendant he owes it be deemed frivolous?

With all due respect, the players and theirs lawyers would be, if it ever got that far, thrown out of court. What case do they have? What is he guilty of? In front of a judge his lawyers will show how he put this whole thing together, invited the players to play, put on several tournaments paying out millions of dollars from his pocket without making a cent. Then had a tournament and had a financial reversal and was not able to pay as promised.

He has filed no bankruptcies, done nothing to evade paying AND has paid close to half of the money owed from his own pocket and has promised to pay it all over time and at this point there is no reason to believe he won't. So what is the complaints of the players? He isn't paying fast enough? KT in the eyes of a judge is going to look like an angel and the players like a bunch of ungrateful leeches. There won't be any seizing of bank accounts, he doesn't owe the IRS. As far as OJ. every time something comes up they have to go back to court and file a whole bunch of new stuff, it isn't automatic. Whose going to pay for that, a bunch of broke pool players trying to collect a few thousand each?

That kind of stuff takes paying lawyers to do the filings and not on contingency, paid by the hour. This thing money wise and with the number of people involved is so nickel and dime it's a joke. They can take a chance he will keep paying, or try to settle, that is the only choices they have. Me, I would settle for a payment now for like 30 or 40% of the outstanding money owed and end it. That is the smartest choice.

 

[memikey]

......Also if I win a $50,000 lawsuit of money you owe me, I can go after almost any asset you have, I am not restricted to IPT assests. Ask O.J. Simpson.

.......and then ask the plaintiffs how much money OJ has actually paid up to them so far and/or how long after winning their case they anticipate receiving any payment

 

[SpiderWebComm]

......Also if I win a $50,000 lawsuit of money you owe me, I can go after almost any asset you have, I am not restricted to IPT assests. Ask O.J. Simpson.

.......and then ask the plaintiffs how much money OJ has actually paid up to them so far and/or how long after winning their case they anticipate receiving any payment

The IPT is an LLC, under Nevada law (according to my old agreement w/ them). The LLC protects and guards shareholders of individual liability; therefore, the IPT assets would be the only fair game. The only exception, I believe, would be cases where laws have been broken.. such as corporate fraud, etc.... i.e. Enron, Ken Lay, etc. In those cases, the officers can be criminally liable and forced to pay restitution.

Unless the players can prove there was no Ho merger (or intent to merge) when KT was touting it (and later used as an excuse as why he didnt pay) - a suit would be fruitless, I think. I personally think the Ho merger was bunk, but that's my opinion. Private mergers with the size the KT was talking about are almost never discussed until they're completed (for many reasons). You would never advertise a merger the way KT did based on a letter of intent, I think.

NYC cue dude (Randy) would prob have more insight on this type of thing than me.

 

[memikey]

I don't know enough about it to comment spiderwebb.com. The only point I was making, in response to someone's else's post, was that getting a judgement against an individual, if that is what was to happen, and succeeding in actually getting paid by that individual in anything shorter than a sea turtle's lifetime......are often two very different things.

For what its worth by the way.......... the IPT is registered only in Delaware

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I don't know enough about it to comment spiderwebb.com. The only point I was making, in response to someone's else's post, was that getting a judgement against an individual, if that is what was to happen, and succeeding in actually getting paid by that individual in anything shorter than a sea turtle's lifetime......are often two very different things.

For what its worth by the way.......... the IPT is registered only in Delaware

Not sure if there are different IPT entities (you never know w/ KT). Pool Licensing LLC is listed on my IPT agreement as the corporate entity, which was our agreement for their website. It's listed as a Nevada corporation (maybe for the online gaming thing?). That's pretty much all I can say w/out messing w/ the confidentiality clause of the agreement.

 

[memikey]

Of course KT may have several corporate entities under various names.

However a corporation by the name of "International Pool Tour Inc" was registered in the state of Delaware on 21 October 2005 under the file refernce number 4049163 and other searches have not unearthed any other company registrations of the "International Pool Tour" name.

Your agreement is of course not with IPT but with Pool Licensing LLC which is the entity you would initially be seeking payment from were any committments not met. The assets of Pool Licensing LLC would be the first item of relevance to any related unpaid judgement amounts.