LAYERED TIPS

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I still don't believe this. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of layered tips are in use world-wide. If this was going on you'd hear about it and you just don't. Like i said earlier if you scuff it properly and know how to chalk a cue this glue-line issue, if it even exists, will not happen.

Lately, over the last couple of years, I have had a rash of Kamui tips fly off.

Some I installed myself. Out of frustration I had the best cue mechanic in the area install one. The tip was actually coming off while on his lathe. He finally got one to stick but it came off a few weeks later. Flash forward to a new cue I received from a very well known cue maker. He told me he was now using the Kamui Clears that they had started producing to take care of all the complaints about their tips coming off. I have no idea if that is true or not. But after a few months play the Kamui flew off, pad and all.

I am now playing with a different tip and keeping my fingers crossed.

Lou Figueroa
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lately, over the last couple of years, I have had a rash of Kamui tips fly off.

Some I installed myself. Out of frustration I had the best cue mechanic in the area install one. The tip was actually coming off while on his lathe. He finally got one to stick but it came off a few weeks later. Flash forward to a new cue I received from a very well known cue maker. He told me he was now using the Kamui Clears that they had started producing to take care of all the complaints about their tips coming off. I have no idea if that is true or not. But after a few months play the Kamui flew off, pad and all.

I am now playing with a different tip and keeping my fingers crossed.

Lou Figueroa
All i can say is they must be using the wrong glue. In 15+yrs of using layered tips i think i've had 1, maybe 2 pop-off. My guy uses LoctiteGel, no clear pad just straight on the ferrule. No issues.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All i can say is they must be using the wrong glue. In 15+yrs of using layered tips i think i've had 1, maybe 2 pop-off. My guy uses LoctiteGel, no clear pad just straight on the ferrule. No issues.

I've used fresh Loctite Prism, Loctite 401, and Loctite Ultra Gel.

I don't know what the mechanic or cue maker used.

Might just be the tip...

Lou Figueroa
 

CESSNA10

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No shit. Anything is possible but some things are HIGHLY unlikely, like this. I've never heard anyone in any poolroom i've been in or at any tournament i've attended that complained about miscues/misses due to glue lines. AGAIN: scuff the tip and use chalk. No problems.
Thanks for all the input, I think after reading it all I will try a triangle and a layered
and see which one works for me.
 

Texas Carom Club

play 1cushion & balkline
Silver Member
The glue is a different thing for me.
Not them coming apart, but the glue in the actual tip, every single layered tip will leave a splotch on the Carom balls,

Hasn't happened since I went with triangle, I'm about to just ban anyone who uses layered tips from playing on my table(not that anyone's even playing on it but me), cause it's me that has to look at and clean the balls more than anyone else.

Had the same triangle for 2 yrs pounding the bigger balls, hasn't moved, hasn't left mark on the ball. Don't need to clean the balls, less work, more happy

They probably don't mark up the pool balls cause they are lighter weight cue balls but they darn sure do mark up a Carom ball
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
Lately, over the last couple of years, I have had a rash of Kamui tips fly off.

Some I installed myself. Out of frustration I had the best cue mechanic in the area install one. The tip was actually coming off while on his lathe. He finally got one to stick but it came off a few weeks later. Flash forward to a new cue I received from a very well known cue maker. He told me he was now using the Kamui Clears that they had started producing to take care of all the complaints about their tips coming off. I have no idea if that is true or not. But after a few months play the Kamui flew off, pad and all.

I am now playing with a different tip and keeping my fingers crossed.

Lou Figueroa
If you coat the back of the tip first let it dry. You can do it twice if you like. That seals the leather so it doesn't suck up the glue. Then sand the back and install. I used to do a lot of billiard cues with like 10 and 11 mm ferrules.

There is so little gluing surface they would pop off. They used almost exclusively layered tips since the were introduced by Sang Lee. Once I started doing that they never came off anymore.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Lately, over the last couple of years, I have had a rash of Kamui tips fly off.

Some I installed myself. Out of frustration I had the best cue mechanic in the area install one. The tip was actually coming off while on his lathe. He finally got one to stick but it came off a few weeks later. Flash forward to a new cue I received from a very well known cue maker. He told me he was now using the Kamui Clears that they had started producing to take care of all the complaints about their tips coming off. I have no idea if that is true or not. But after a few months play the Kamui flew off, pad and all.

I am now playing with a different tip and keeping my fingers crossed.

Lou Figueroa
A hint that I've discovered on the clears. They say not to sand them, but DO sand them lightly on a piece of emery cloth (or sandpaper about that grit) flattened on your flat workspace. The tips are not truly flat as evidenced by the fact the center remains shiny much longer than the outer edges. Get them FLAT, not taking off a whole lot here, just enough to knock the shine off. Then use Gorilla Glue Gel CA. You won't have a tip fly off after that.

When you sand them, do so lightly in a figure 8 motion and rotate the tip after a few passes. Think an orbital sander motion only preformed with your hands.

I don't really care for the clears, nothing wrong with them, but they are more of a pain to work with than the milkduds I prefer. If I were putting tips on for anyone but friends, I would charge $5 extra for installing clears because it just adds unnecessary fiddling around.
 

Chili Palmer

funking idiot
Silver Member
I've used fresh Loctite Prism, Loctite 401, and Loctite Ultra Gel.

I don't know what the mechanic or cue maker used.

Might just be the tip...

Lou Figueroa

If it's a Kamui clear and the entire thing fell off how can it be the tip? Seems like it would be the clear pad and it seems like it wasn't sanded enough?

I have had one tip come off and I'm sure it was due to old glue, and it wasn't a Kamui. I haven't installed too many Kamui's (less than 20?) but none of them have ever fell off nor have I ever heard of that before?
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A hint that I've discovered on the clears. They say not to sand them, but DO sand them lightly on a piece of emery cloth (or sandpaper about that grit) flattened on your flat workspace. The tips are not truly flat as evidenced by the fact the center remains shiny much longer than the outer edges. Get them FLAT, not taking off a whole lot here, just enough to knock the shine off. Then use Gorilla Glue Gel CA. You won't have a tip fly off after that.

When you sand them, do so lightly in a figure 8 motion and rotate the tip after a few passes. Think an orbital sander motion only preformed with your hands.

I don't really care for the clears, nothing wrong with them, but they are more of a pain to work with than the milkduds I prefer. If I were putting tips on for anyone but friends, I would charge $5 extra for installing clears because it just adds unnecessary fiddling around.
I also use a razor blade and do multidirectuonal scratches on the tip and the ferrule. Not deep. Just scratch it up. It works.
 

chenjy9

Well-known member
To this day, I have never replaced a stock tip for anyone other reason than it was basically worn down to the ferrule and that process involved sending the shaft in to McDermott and having them put another one on there. Performance wise, I find it all basically gimmicks. Efren Reyes used an Elkmaster (at least for a while) and the things he could do with the rock were beyond what us mere mortals could dream of. It is the poet, not the pen. Always remember that.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
If it's a Kamui clear and the entire thing fell off how can it be the tip? Seems like it would be the clear pad and it seems like it wasn't sanded enough?

I have had one tip come off and I'm sure it was due to old glue, and it wasn't a Kamui. I haven't installed too many Kamui's (less than 20?) but none of them have ever fell off nor have I ever heard of that before?
Kamui says to not sand the clear pad. Good luck getting glue to adhere long term on that, especially when the middle is concave. You really have to lightly sand them flat or they pop.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it leaving tip material on the ferrule? Or is it coming off clean?

You're asking for a lot from these old memory cells.

What I can tell you is that the Kamui Brown Clear I had flew clean off the ferule -- installed by a well known cue maker that has probably installed more tips than you and I combined.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If it's a Kamui clear and the entire thing fell off how can it be the tip? Seems like it would be the clear pad and it seems like it wasn't sanded enough?

I have had one tip come off and I'm sure it was due to old glue, and it wasn't a Kamui. I haven't installed too many Kamui's (less than 20?) but none of them have ever fell off nor have I ever heard of that before?

That was the last one.

And I would say that the manufacturer is as responsible for the pad as the tip. As I mentioned in my first post, I've had several Kamui tips fly off the last few years.

Lou Figueroa
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
If you coat the back of the tip first let it dry. You can do it twice if you like. That seals the leather so it doesn't suck up the glue. Then sand the back and install. I used to do a lot of billiard cues with like 10 and 11 mm ferrules.

There is so little gluing surface they would pop off. They used almost exclusively layered tips since the were introduced by Sang Lee. Once I started doing that they never came off anymore.
To this day, I have never replaced a stock tip for anyone other reason than it was basically worn down to the ferrule and that process involved sending the shaft in to McDermott and having them put another one on there. Performance wise, I find it all basically gimmicks. Efren Reyes used an Elkmaster (at least for a while) and the things he could do with the rock were beyond what us mere mortals could dream of. It is the poet, not the pen. Always remember that.
It's not really always an out of the box tip. What I mean is players know how to mess with a tip to change it's play. They shape it. Some will tap it with a file or roll it with the file to soften it up s bit.

I knew quite a few who took half the height off their tips before installing them. They started with a tip about where most players would be ready to change them. It makes the tip play harder. I do that by the way even with layered tips I take off a few layers.

The brand of the tip doesn't tell you how the player has treated it. Some coat it with ammonia making it case hardened. Then shape it. When I was a kid there was always a guy in the pool room that was a master at grooming tips.

I used to see Lassiter play and he carried a small file in his pocket. I actually think Buteras TipTapper was inspired by Lassiter's little file. I was told by a guy who played in the same room as Irving Crane that Crane would go through the house cues looking at tips.

If he found one he liked he would cut it off. I guess he figured the pounding from public play made it a better tip then a new one. Then of course we have Milk Duds, a modified tip. When you hear a player uses a certain tip, there may be more to the story.
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
I still don't believe this. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of layered tips are in use world-wide. If this was going on you'd hear about it and you just don't. Like i said earlier if you scuff it properly and know how to chalk a cue this glue-line issue, if it even exists, will not happen.
Ok, well I kind of take offense at, “know how to chalk a cue “. Perhaps that’s your intent. Regardless, I know what I experienced and will try to relate it accurately. In a $5 tournament it was a shot that required special sauce. I was in the zone and focused. So when I misscued it was a mystery. So when I examined the tip, sure enough there was a bald spot and missing glue. Upon examining the cue ball…..there was the missing glue. The fact that glue leaves the tip and resides on the cue ball is obvious. Cue balls never collected fly specks before layered tips.
 
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