League play causing apathy?!

zeeder

zeeder

Will queue for cues
Silver Member
I'm playing in two house leagues and two TAP leagues this summer and it seems as though I'm not really able to concentrate or really care about playing in any of them. In the TAP leagues I don't really like the equipment we're forced to play on (bar tables) and it seems like I don't really feel like playing more than another night or two. This also means that it cuts drastically into the amount of time I am actually at the table because during league it's mostly sitting around watching a couple of 2's or 3's taking an hour and a half for a race to 2 or 3. Does anyone else experience this problem?
 
I have exactly the same problem with my APA league. I think that I am going to quit after the trip to Vegas. I mean, I still love pool, but just not the league anymore.
 
I think leagues cater to the weaker players. It is a matter of numbers. In the APA for example, 60 to 70% of the players are the 2, 3 and 4 rated players. So, the majority of the money that is taken in by the leagues comes from these players.

I decided to combat the apathy by picking a location to play that has many tables. Then I can play pool the entire time that I am there. At some point we all get burned out on league pool.
 
zeeder said:
Does anyone else experience this problem?
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Z,
No. Wait, HELL NO!! I've always avoided any league where I'm not playing continuously. Playing time is valuable - why waste it sitting around watching that kind of show???

If you think that sounds self-centered, Dick Lane stated on an Accu-Stats tape that most of his playing is by himself. He finds even practicing with a partner cuts down on the amount of time he is at the table shooting. Of course, I mentioned this to my instructor and he said, "well, Dick is so slow he probably can't find anyone that wants to play with him."

You need to start a straight pool league immediately.
 
zeeder said:
I'm playing in two house leagues and two TAP leagues this summer and it seems as though I'm not really able to concentrate or really care about playing in any of them. In the TAP leagues I don't really like the equipment we're forced to play on (bar tables) and it seems like I don't really feel like playing more than another night or two. This also means that it cuts drastically into the amount of time I am actually at the table because during league it's mostly sitting around watching a couple of 2's or 3's taking an hour and a half for a race to 2 or 3. Does anyone else experience this problem?
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Yup, I had the same problem. I used to play on an APA team on Wednsdays and because we had too many 5's I didn't get to play every week. My last season with that team, I showed up 14 out of 15 weeks and played 7 times. Many weeks I would just sit there and drink until 1am. 1am was the average end time for that particular league. Many nights would go until 2am. I loved my teammates, but I hated just sitting there. So I quit. I joined the Amsterdam team 9-ball league in NYC and I love it. I'm at the low end of the ranking system, so I'm always playing tough opponents. When I'm not playing, I learn a lot from just watching or I'll just grab a table and practice. My advice would be to find a tougher league to join.
 
zeeder said:
I'm playing in two house leagues and two TAP leagues this summer and it seems as though I'm not really able to concentrate or really care about playing in any of them. In the TAP leagues I don't really like the equipment we're forced to play on (bar tables) and it seems like I don't really feel like playing more than another night or two. This also means that it cuts drastically into the amount of time I am actually at the table because during league it's mostly sitting around watching a couple of 2's or 3's taking an hour and a half for a race to 2 or 3. Does anyone else experience this problem?
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I played in an APA league once and will never, ever play again. I've played in a couple in-house 14.1 leagues that were ok, but I hate the commitment of having to be there every week. Especially, in the summer.
 
zeeder said:
I'm playing in two house leagues and two TAP leagues this summer and it seems as though I'm not really able to concentrate or really care about playing in any of them. In the TAP leagues I don't really like the equipment we're forced to play on (bar tables) and it seems like I don't really feel like playing more than another night or two. This also means that it cuts drastically into the amount of time I am actually at the table because during league it's mostly sitting around watching a couple of 2's or 3's taking an hour and a half for a race to 2 or 3. Does anyone else experience this problem?
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I think your problem is you are in 4 leagues a week. Thats alot.. Max I would do is 2 and spend the rest of the week playing in tournaments. Maybe you should try BCA or ACS leagues as you dont sit around as much like APA leagues.
 
zeeder said:
I'm playing in two house leagues and two TAP leagues this summer and it seems as though I'm not really able to concentrate or really care about playing in any of them. In the TAP leagues I don't really like the equipment we're forced to play on (bar tables) and it seems like I don't really feel like playing more than another night or two. This also means that it cuts drastically into the amount of time I am actually at the table because during league it's mostly sitting around watching a couple of 2's or 3's taking an hour and a half for a race to 2 or 3. Does anyone else experience this problem?
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I concur with New Guy. The problem isn't league play, in general. It's the league you play in. If there isn't a league in your area that caters to stronger players and you consider yourself one of many strong players, I would recommend talking to your local room about possibly starting something that would fit.

New Guy mentioned Amsterdam Billiards Team 9-ball league. It started 6 years ago or so. It was designed specifically for the stronger player. Only 9-ball is played. There are very few rules in terms of who can be on your team and we allow professional players. It wasn't long before Mika Immonen, George "Ginky" SanSoucci, Kim Shaw, Tiffany Nelson (the list really goes on) all began showing up. I can't say they're all still there but what's left is consistently the strongest BCA chapter in the country.

I can assure you, you are not the only person who feels the way you do. If you sit down with the right people, I'm absolutely certain you can put together a product that even you would like. League play can be awesome when done correctly. All you have to do is flip it upside-down. Take the strongest players from TAP and APA and create a league where they would be some of the weakest. It's taken years to get Amsterdam's League to where it is now but the turn-over rate is minimal. There are 16 or so teams and most return each season. Three win trips to Vegas each year and oftentimes, one or two other teams will pay their way to the big show. We also consistently have a team that finishes in the top 10%.
 
League experience

Zeeder,

I agree with Jude and others that 4 nights a week is burnout, especially if the League in your area isn't that strong. I would say cut it back next session to two nights a week with the strongest of the Teams you play on. One thing I did to combat the problem of 'sitting', (I'm a 8-Ball Team Captain APA), was creating a 'Player Rotation', I rotate the Players vs Sitters every week, this way my crew knows whose up to sit and who will play. Some may not agree with this, but I find that if you know your sitting then you can opt to come out or not. This means you can play another Tournament or just come in and socialize and shoot around for a while and go home. I have enough SL range on my Team that this does not hurt us in posting stragety at all, and at the end of the session the 'play' vs 'sit' is even across the entire Team.

Also, we are fortunate to have a 'Match' and a 'Practice' table for each two Teams in competition, so while a match is played on one table, the two teams share a practice table so we are able to play all night.
 
Jersey said:
One thing I did to combat the problem of 'sitting', (I'm a 8-Ball Team Captain APA), was creating a 'Player Rotation', I rotate the Players vs Sitters every week, this way my crew knows whose up to sit and who will play. Some may not agree with this, but I find that if you know your sitting then you can opt to come out or not.
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I still play on an APA team on Sunday's (I'm the captain) and this is exactly what I do. It's really the only fair way of doing things as long as you have the numbers. My teammates love it since the previous captain would almost always play himself and he would always sit some of the 3s. One of the 3s only had 9 games under his belt after 2 full seasons, yet he would show up every week. I'm shocked that he stuck with the team.

Unfortunately, because I'm trying to play everyone else I forget about myself. Before this last Sunday I hadn't played in a month... and it showed. I played the worst 3 in the league and got swept. :rolleyes: Do you find yourself doing the same thing Jersey?
 
Jersey said:
Zeeder,


I agree with Jude and others that 4 nights a week is burnout, especially if the League in your area isn't that strong. I would say cut it back next session to two nights a week with the strongest of the Teams you play on. One thing I did to combat the problem of 'sitting', (I'm a 8-Ball Team Captain APA), was creating a 'Player Rotation', I rotate the Players vs Sitters every week, this way my crew knows whose up to sit and who will play. Some may not agree with this, but I find that if you know your sitting then you can opt to come out or not. This means you can play another Tournament or just come in and socialize and shoot around for a while and go home. I have enough SL range on my Team that this does not hurt us in posting stragety at all, and at the end of the session the 'play' vs 'sit' is even across the entire Team.

Also, we are fortunate to have a 'Match' and a 'Practice' table for each two Teams in competition, so while a match is played on one table, the two teams share a practice table so we are able to play all night.
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Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! One of the problems is that there aren't many tournaments around here, that I know of. The really strong players around here don't hardly come to the pool halls anymore so it's few and far between when I get to play any of them. Really, the only tournaments that I've played in are the county and state tournaments for eight and nine ball around here. I've been trying to schedule a time to go to St Louis to play some with the better players down there but it seems as though things keep coming up at the last minute not allowing me to make it over there. Oh well, I may be relegated to a lifetime of pool mediocrity.

Willie, we've tried to get a 14.1 league or one-pocket league going here but I guess there just isn't enough interest?!
 
zeeder said:
Oh well, I may be relegated to a lifetime of pool mediocrity.

Willie, we've tried to get a 14.1 league or one-pocket league going here but I guess there just isn't enough interest?!
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Z,
I've got a LOT of good ideas on how to start a successful 14.1 league. Perhaps we can discuss it this weekend if you are able to "meet me in St. Louis" (I've always wanted to say that).
 
Williebetmore said:
Z,
I've got a LOT of good ideas on how to start a successful 14.1 league. Perhaps we can discuss it this weekend if you are able to "meet me in St. Louis" (I've always wanted to say that).
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My plan is to come up Saturday after a consulting gig I've got. That should put me there at 7pm or so at the latest. How long do you plan to be at Mark's?
 
zeeder said:
My plan is to come up Saturday after a consulting gig I've got. That should put me there at 7pm or so at the latest. How long do you plan to be at Mark's?
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Z,
I'll be there from about 3 hours before opening, until he kicks me out at closing. My wife and daughter will have the car, so I am without wheels.
 
Williebetmore said:
Z,
I'll be there from about 3 hours before opening, until he kicks me out at closing. My wife and daughter will have the car, so I am without wheels.
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Sounds good. In that case, I'll definitely see you there Saturday night whenever I can make it there.
 
I love league night, but am bored with leagues.,,,,,,,,,,,if you win then you are a world champion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you lose, then you shoulda won. A great night to catch bar table bangers and gamble.

I quit league play several years ago and play at the pool hall, later I go hunt down bar box players.
 
Williebetmore said:
I mentioned this to my instructor and he said, "well, Dick is so slow he probably can't find anyone that wants to play with him."
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I like D. and think he's a great player, but ROFL
 
League experience

Hey All,

Nice to see I'm not the only one who does this, as for my 'sitters', being there for moral support...honestly more often than not my whole squad stays the entire night...like I said the room I play out of, (The Side Pocket Cue Club), gives the Teams two tables all night, so one is a match table and the other is a practice table for both Teams to play all night, (or at least until 9:30p, then we split tables), so we are not there all night, (on average we're done by 11p). As for neglecting the Captain, I do sit myself in rotation with the rest of my squad. That said I still exercise a little discretion, (if we're playing a particularly strong Team I may opt to play out of sequence), not caused any problems thus far. The Team understands what we need to do at those times and I just spin the rotation. So I tend not to have the problem of not playing often enough that I lose the edge. Heck I don't have to have not played for awhile to get rolled by a SL3 having a good night! :D ...the 'Practice Table' arrangement we have in our room really helps everyone stay pretty up to speed.

Thanks All for the Confirmation-
 
I love the camaraderie of pool players myself.

I've only been playing since 10/04 so I guess I'm one of the weaker players you refer to and am an SL3 in APA.

AT my level anyway I gain a lot of knowledge as I watch very carefully the SL 5/6/7 players and how they play.

I think ahead of time how I would play something and imagine the likely result and then compare the 2.

Not to brag but I am a better shotmaker than most players with a higher SL that I have seen but I am nowhere as good at position play and that is my weakness. A good player who can keep me hooked drives me up a wall, but if I get an open table I can hang with most better players.

My next biggest weakness is to always try to think of a way to make a shot and not shoot the safety when it's there. That's a mental block I have and it is only now SLOWLY starting to sink in.

I have also learned a fair amount from this forum and others and would like to thank the members for imparting their knowledge upon me.

LWW
 
LWW said:
My next biggest weakness is to always try to think of a way to make a shot and not shoot the safety when it's there. That's a mental block I have and it is only now SLOWLY starting to sink in.
LWW
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The advice I try to give my guys when it comes to safeties is:
If the shot is harder than the safe, play the safe. I know it is fairly common knowledge but I keep after them because it's amazing how often my 3's try to run out a rack that a 7 would have a difficult time with.

It is slowly paying off because I find myself having to call fewer and fewer timeouts. :)

Best of luck and it sounds like you're not too far from moving up to the next level. Just play within your means and it will soon become second nature.

Koop
 
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