League play: good news and bad news

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The good news is that one year after I bought my first cue I'm a lot better than I was. So good in fact that now I have to dump games in the league to keep my handicap from getting to high and help out the team. I realize that's the way it is in the league but it ain't a lot of fun.
 
alstl said:
The good news is that one year after I bought my first cue I'm a lot better than I was. So good in fact that now I have to dump games in the league to keep my handicap from getting to high and help out the team. I realize that's the way it is in the league but it ain't a lot of fun.
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Don't dump games.

It is cheating and dishonest. You will respect yourself a lot more, if you just play your best and let everything else fall into place.

Don't buy into the B.S. that sandbagging is good for the team. I would rather lose than sandbag. If your current team can't use you, when playing your best, I'm sure another team can.
 
alstl said:
The good news is that one year after I bought my first cue I'm a lot better than I was. So good in fact that now I have to dump games in the league to keep my handicap from getting to high and help out the team. I realize that's the way it is in the league but it ain't a lot of fun.
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Losing on purpose or otherwise is bad for your game. Winning builds success and lifts your game to new levels. Trust me, don't get in a habit of losing and rationalizing it as helping the team. It is a difficult habit to leave behind when you want to compete at higher levels.

Even if you don't think it's wrong to sandbag, don't do it. It will end up hurting your game more in the long run. Getting on a team where you need to play better than your handicap to win will do far more good for your game.

Cheers,
RC
 
alstl said:
The good news is that one year after I bought my first cue I'm a lot better than I was. So good in fact that now I have to dump games in the league to keep my handicap from getting to high and help out the team. I realize that's the way it is in the league but it ain't a lot of fun.
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Luke,
You must leave the darkside. You must use the force only for good, not evil.

Seriously though, dumping games is no way to advance your skills or do credit to a grand game. When you dump, you are playing a game different than pool (the "handicapped league" game). Pool is much more fun. Though I will admit that nothing is funnier than watching 2 competitors furiously trying to dump the same game - but it's NOT pool.

The money you may win is not worth the significant loss of esteem you will suffer if you continue (self-esteem, and esteem from the forum members).

For the higher level players, I will also point out that I have had 2 world class players tell me that they never reached the top level until they quit dumping gambling games. They both stated that they now realize they could have reached the top level much quicker if they hadn't spent those years disguising their true speed.
 
Don't worry about your handicap...go out to win every game to the best of your ability. Your handicap will take care of itself.
Steve
 
Agreed with everyone else - sandbagging = bleh.

If you're getting too good for your league team, look at it in a different way - maybe it's time you moved on from leagues. Dumping games to keep your handicap down to stay in the league is just you holding yourself back.
 
Last season, the ace of our team said that we should start throwing some games, so we would end up in an easier "C" league, rather than the tougher "B" league.

None of us could, or would, do it. We ended up in the "B" league, got our butts kicked from that point on, but in the end felt good about not dumping or throwing any games. Personally, I just could not see myself ever throwing games for any reason.

Although there were a few teams that did dump, it was pretty obvious that they should have been in a higher league....I recall these teams cleaning up in the easier league.
 
I agree with all the previous posts.

Sand bagging or dumping is wrong.

Bad for you, bad for your team and bad for the league.

I don't know if you're talking about APA or BCAPL/ACS?

There is supposed to be a player committee that looks at things like that. If the majority of the committee think someone is throwing games, they could vote you out of the league. Same thing with the teams.

I sincerely hope you are not one of the people that plays below his level and when the playoffs start.....then plays to his ability in addition to having a lower skill level.

I have NO RESPECT for people like that and frankly they remind me of the clowns in the pool halls that hustle. You'll never know how good they are until it's to their advantage to play well.
 
Don't Dump.
I used to do it and I got so out of stroke once it took months to get back and when I needed it, it wasn't there. I try to win every match I play now. If I have to spot 6-2 race, and it doesn't look like it will be anywhere near close, I will just change the object of my game. I will try to play 1-hole, or banks or Carrom's and let them just play it out normally. I am still trying to make the shots, just not such a direct approach, and the other player gets to enjoy a few more times at the table.
:p
Try it, you may like it.
 
Go ahead and dump; see what I care.

It's not as effective as you may think. Lots of bar leages keep SLs by your best performaces. That means you lose lose lose, win a match, and you could go up anyway.

But if I were dumping, why post about it?
 
Real pool players don't sandbag. In the end you're cheating yourself, the people on your team and your opponents. I've never really liked the handicapp cap idea for leages. I think it's much better to have teams divisionalized so that all teams play on a reletively level playing field.

That by itself won't stop sandbagging but if the prize structure was geared so that the higher divisions pay out more it would make a difference.

Dumping and sandbagging IS cheating. black and white, no grey area there.:mad:
 
Think of it as "sacrificing yourself for the good of the team".

Ha Ha.

Just like a baseball player puts down a bunt, or grounds to 2nd to advance a runner or hits a long sacrifice fly to score a run.

Same in football.

When playing on a team one must do what is good for the team. And that is not always what is best for the individual. Otherwise why play on a team?

Save your best games for tournament play or gambling one on one.

And yes I have come to believe that gambling, even for small sums, is the best way to improve your game. Just find someone who plays the same speed as you or slightly better. That way you just take turns holding the money.

Those of you who like to tout the "sandbagging is wrong" mantra have all been hoodwinked by the league operators. It is in their best interests for everyone to play their best because then it splits up the team and brings in more players for the operators. And that means more money in their pocket. And what happens to the team? It breaks up and can't win any money or go to Vegas.

Jake
 
Sandbagging can backfire bigtime

Playing bad pool deliberately is poison. Not just to you but the whole team.

Deliberately playing bad pool has many hidden effects, especially on league teams. Losing desire to play your best means sacrificing your desire to win. Losing your desire to win means losing your desire to improve. Losing your desire to improve means losing your desire to play. Losing your desire to play means losing your desire to spend time with your teamates outside of league.

If you feel you must throw games to help your team, I recommend trying another team. Not all teams are like that.

Good to hear you improved though! Keep it up, enjoy the journey!

Da Poet
 
i guarantee you have tons of improvement room at whatever sl you are now. i assume from the lack of info that you are not a high rated player. i would rathe rhit the pool hall hard and improve than throw games. The Sl's are there for a reason. it is a handicapped league. if you are bagging then you are in essence cheating. no two ways about it. it's cheating.
 
I cant stand sandbagging. You will respect yourself more if you play straight up and you will get more respect from your peers as well. If you team is telling you to dog a few matches, switch teams.

I love it when my Skill level goes up. Other then me noticing I am shooting better it is a great way to find out if you really are shooting better. Strive for that top SL.
 
jjinfla said:
Those of you who like to tout the "sandbagging is wrong" mantra have all been hoodwinked by the league operators. It is in their best interests for everyone to play their best because then it splits up the team and brings in more players for the operators. And that means more money in their pocket. And what happens to the team? It breaks up and can't win any money or go to Vegas.

Jake
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Jake,

I think you make some good points. HOWEVER, whether sandbagging is wrong or not is not the issue from my perspective. I played below my ability for a while. Not deliberately sandbagging, but I was afraid of people complaining and getting mad that I was underrated. It happened a lot and I was sensitive to it, but the LO wouldn't move me up.

Once someone told me that because I was thinking of all the ramifications of how I played and the scenarios in my head, I had very little energy left to actually PLAY POOL. I thought about it and they were right. It took me several years to get my head clear enough where I could play at a high level. That programming stays in there for a long time.

Throwing games in league play or to get better gambling matches, will allow your brain to always throw out the "i wasn't really trying to win" or "that'll make me more money in the end" rationalizations. Basically excusing a loss. This gives you a false sense of confidence as well as at the same time introducing doubt in your abilities deep in your psyche.

The only players that can pull this off are players that really get good without dumping/hiding and then start doing it consciously later. Players that have the mental discipline and honesty to separate when they're losing on purpose and when they're losing because they're losing are few and far between.

So wrong or not, I think dumping or sandbagging ultimately hurts your game far more than it helps the team.

Cheers,
RC
 
I agree with everyboby else that's posted thus far. As far as the team is concerned if your good then their going to value you. You need to be part of the core of the team, the other lower players will come and go so as to round things out. Now if several differnt people start going up that's a different story all together. But, hey new teams start up all the time because people stated getting to good. Split the squad up into two teams each with a power base augmented with lower players. It'll workout but most importantly play your game and have fun.

Black Cat :cool:

P.S. What's your handicap & what league do you play in?
 
Good points above but what about your Reputation? I would hate to go through my pool life being know as a SandBagger. Building your reputation is something you have to work on every day, I want respect and you have to earn respect. You won't get any by not playing your best.

BK
 
jjinfla said:
Think of it as "sacrificing yourself for the good of the team".

Ha Ha.

Just like a baseball player puts down a bunt, or grounds to 2nd to advance a runner or hits a long sacrifice fly to score a run.

Jake
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I understand your point regarding sacrifice, but please, deliberately throwing games in a handicapped league is a clear violation of previously agreed upon rules. These particular baseball analogies in no way compares to the topic at hand. Bunting, sacrifice flies, these are clearly within the previously agreed upon rules. Big difference.

A more appropriate analogy to throwing games in a handicapped pool league and baseball is using steroids. Even when baseball players get away with it for a while, the side effects come back to get them every time! :eek:
 
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you want to know what i hate about league..is that when your a good player and i mean a good one..people rag on you about your rank. I am currently ranked a 5 ..i am a very very good 5 I know i should be a six or a seven but the league score format has not seen fit to raise me up in ranking. I am not going to run and yell raise me up , raise me up. I think that the quaility of skill rank needs to be looked at in the APA. Anyone that thinks that a 5 cant run a rack or racks just hasnt run into a good 5 . I have the ability to run more than one rack..but i also have the abillity to lock a ball up or miss an easy shot that a 7-9 wont miss. I wish there was a better method of ranking a person instead of by ball potted, but untill they move me up ..im gona try to be the most feared 5 in my league (ha in my dreams) but hey everyone..my team has been total points winner for two sessions straight and we placed second in the First Tricup and we placed third in the Tri-cup this past weekend here in Richmond. We were double qualified for the vegas cup..Keep your finger crossed for us ..i hope to get to vegas and maybe see some AZer's there. I am gona get a tee shirt made up with Azbilliards web site and my user name on it
 
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