League timeouts: advice for team captains

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Man that sounds like a terrible experience. I'm actually not a fan of what all the couches are allowed to do in my league, but, verbal only would be very frustrating. Also, three time outs a game? At that point you're not even playing your opponent, you're playing the couch. My league is in fact APA. I've used my technique at least once every league night, during playoffs, during cities, I've never been told it's not allowed.

I don't believe there's a rule forbidding it, unless it's something on the local level specific to your area
 

TX Poolnut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a simple drill that teaches the shooter to shoot softer.

Put the cue ball on the center spot. Put one object ball centered between the side pocket and the cue ball.

The object of the drill is to make the object ball in the side pocket using as many shots as possible. Forget rails. Just roll the cue ball at the object ball and make contact. Do NOT take BIH after every stroke. Just tap it little by little until it finally pots. 20 is a good score.

You will gain the soft shot of the gods.

Credit for this idea falls squarely on one of the pool magazine writers. I forget which one.
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's very hard to communicate speed effectively. I usually try to focus on telling them where I want the cueball to end up and then let them pick their speed on their own. I find the less technical you are during a timeout the more effective it is. 3s and 4s will try to hard to do what you tell them, it's better for them to relax and have a general idea and let them execute the shot within their own routine. KISS principle on timeouts 99% of the time.

I agree with you. It's difficult to tell a 2,3 or 4 to hit it at speeds 1-10 when many times they can't control their speed under on normal circumstances. I have a 5 who is a 56% winning percentage that has difficulties controlling speed under pressure (usually touch safeties). I also find it's best to show them what I'd want the path of the cue ball to take and allow them to work out how hard to hit it.
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Coaching, not teaching

When I was an APA LO I always told players/captains the TIME OUT was for coaching, not for teaching. Also APA rule manual (bottom of page 7) says "Each Coaching - 1 minute limit" .

The entire theory of shot speed (from 1 to 5; 1 to 10; slow, medium or hard; whatever ) can really muddy up the waters for a SL 2-3 and many 4's and 5's. The coach risks just confusing an already confused shooter.

Definitely time outs are for coaching within a minute limit. You can't teach within a minute!! Most lower level players feel pressure when time outs are called, they are already a little confused. I find that TMI is a good guideline. No need to get too technical with a player on a timeout. Know your players, A timeout to a 3 is different than a timeout to a 5. Too many times I see a coach trying to give technical instructions / teaching to a player within a minute with everyone watching. That should have been done in practice when you are not rushing without any pressure.
 

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This place must be super boring for you since you know everything & assume you're smarter than everybody else. Most everyone of your posts are filled with arrogance. You're one of the worst posters here.

This post is meant to do one thing, degrade the person who wrote it. Are you really under the impression there's one way to "correctly" coach a player?

Let me help you out junior, the more mature you get the sooner you'll realize how few correct answers in pool, and life, there really are.

And yet you choose to post with degrading remarks that have less to do with the subject than mine. Well played jojopiff, well played. :rolleyes:
 

AceAngeles

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This place must be super boring for you since you know everything & assume you're smarter than everybody else. Most everyone of your posts are filled with arrogance. You're one of the worst posters here.

This post is meant to do one thing, degrade the person who wrote it. Are you really under the impression there's one way to "correctly" coach a playe.

I couldn't agree more. Every post I've ever read from that Skip guy is filled with negativity and egotism.
 

GeoEnvi

Diamond System Enthusiast
Silver Member
This is a simple drill that teaches the shooter to shoot softer.

Put the cue ball on the center spot. Put one object ball centered between the side pocket and the cue ball.

The object of the drill is to make the object ball in the side pocket using as many shots as possible. Forget rails. Just roll the cue ball at the object ball and make contact. Do NOT take BIH after every stroke. Just tap it little by little until it finally pots. 20 is a good score.

You will gain the soft shot of the gods.

Credit for this idea falls squarely on one of the pool magazine writers. I forget which one.

I could be wrong, but I think that was a technique presented by Bob Jewett. Good stuf!
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I use lag speed. Half your lag, lag, and double your lag. With that said, I watch their lag and adjust my advise based off their results. I also try to give them the simplest form of the shot possible.

One thing I do that I've never seen anyone else do is I take the cueball if it's ball in hand and roll it on the path I want them to shoot so they can see exactly what the cue ball is supposed to do and where it's supposed to end up. This technique helps them see the shot and speed first hand.

imop the best thing to use in this situation. if they have played then then have or should have shot a lag shot...so even sha lil baby should understand this across the board as well or better than anything else as a basis of speed.....many are talking numbers nad it could be shapes or smells in the situation for all it matters...most wont get it. if i just talk in a players ear and tell them every bit of pbia/spf info on it they still wouldnt undertand. Because they havent ever physically applied it....osmosis doesn't occur here. So you need to establish a basis for them, it really doesn't even matter what the basis is, just so that they understand THAT SPEED and what IT DOES...they can then postulate what to do off that. good post

if someone cant read the blue, highlight it
 

SlewFootLag

Registered
This is a simple drill that teaches the shooter to shoot softer.

Put the cue ball on the center spot. Put one object ball centered between the side pocket and the cue ball.

The object of the drill is to make the object ball in the side pocket using as many shots as possible. Forget rails. Just roll the cue ball at the object ball and make contact. Do NOT take BIH after every stroke. Just tap it little by little until it finally pots. 20 is a good score.

You will gain the soft shot of the gods.

Credit for this idea falls squarely on one of the pool magazine writers. I forget which one.

Great stuff!
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Yes, the 1 minute rule is a guideline. Otherwise you will have the other team hovering over the table with a stop watch and ready to pounce at exactly 60 seconds. You could be solving one problem (slow play) but creating a much bigger one (sportsmanship complaints all night long). I always advocated for as much common sense as possible. Results varied there. LOL.

Not sure how good a coach I was as all LOs had to give up league participation about 20-25 years ago (some exceptions made). But I lasted 36 years as a LO so apparently was doing something right.

Now retired and loving it.

Common sense? of course this is The APA, sometimes a "common sense impaired" league.
I think that sportsmanship complaints are largely ignored. If the LO's took time to respond to every sportsmanship complaint there'd be no time for anything else, like sleep, or food, or.....
I can remember trying to explain that my watch face was bigger so 60 seconds on my watch took longer, or trying to explain the difference between a rule and guideline.
Some APA player can be pretty sensitive. I love how sometimes the whole back of a score sheet is filled with what the other team did to "my team" and how they're all under-rated sandbaggers. I'd sign a score sheet like that (which was usually accompanied by a threat of some sort) and I'd just have to laugh
 

phillygirl

Registered
I posted this in the Ask The Instructor section so sorry for the double post...

I'm an APA team captain and oftentimes [during timeouts] have trouble giving teammates appropriate advice when speed is an integral factor, not that speed isn't important on all shots.

The 1(softest)-10(hardest) system rarely translates in the midst of a match (although 'lag speed' usually works when applicable).

So my question is...
Is it safe to say that a 30 degree cut will cause a CB energy loss of about 1/2 the speed after OB contact (with a center ball hit)? Same goes for a 15 degree cut yielding a CB energy loss of 3/4? If this is right, do ya'll think this is a good way address certain shots? How much will draw/follow impact energy loss? Also, I'm mostly talking about APA 4's and 5's... Too technical? Any other tips on managing speed issues during timeouts??? Or any interesting tips at all for getting the best out of your teammates on particular shots?
Thanks!
Dave

I've been on both ends of the time out and I've found that using a 1 - 10 system during a timeout is not useful and if you know your shooter, you know how to talk to them and how they shoot. Lag speed is a good reference but something else that helps, IMO, is showing them where the cue should end up for the next shot and whether it's supposed to bounce off the rail before landing in said area. I've found it gives the player an idea of what they're doing instead of "just following orders" and eventually they'll learn a little.

There isn't enough time to teach during a timeout and that's not the time for it. After the shot, explain but go practice with your teammates and try to help them improve their basics. If they're interested in the game and enjoy it, they will get better.
 
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