Leagues and sore losers

trustyrusty

trustyrusty

I'm better with a wedge!
Silver Member
I play in a semi-local league. It's barbox 8ball, call pocket, ball in hand on fouls and scratches, yada yada yada. It is a "handicapped" league, but handicaps aren't figured by a super-secret formula, or fed into a complicated computer program; it's committee based (meaning the LO and a select few VERY good players).

The league, like others that have handicapped rankings, has it's detractions....such as the inevitable whining that this player is under handicapped, or "I" can't play as whatever number I happen to be. For the most part though, it's not as bad as other leagues I've participated in. Now for the sore loser part....

It seems anytime there is a completely one sided match-up, the "whining" steps up to another level. First let me point out that in this league you play a race to whatever you are ranked (for example two 5s play a race to 5), and the other difference over other leagues is LOSER breaks....so, no worries about NEVER shooting in your match. Yet, despite that, there will usually at least once every couple of weeks be one match is COMPLETELY lopsided (say, 5-0), where the losing opponent gets bitter, and heads back to his teams table to get them bitter as well.

So, here's my question....if one player, even of mediocre skill, has a hot night, what's the best way to diffuse the situation that is likely to arise? I know that many players look for excuses for their loss, and that's likely the reason for the sandbagging jabs, rolling of eyes after saying his/her handicap....etc. etc. etc. I'm not idealistic, wanting pats on the back for the winning player, and all giggles and smiles, but the opposite is getting OLD. Should I just resign to thinking the pettiness will just be a part of this form of competition, or is there a way to have a handicapped league where everyone isn't questioning everyone elses morals, ethics, ulterior motives, or whatever?
 
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A trite phrase comes to mind here. "It is what it is."

Phrases become trite because they contain truth.
 
ive figured this much out

Whenever I lose be it a money,league,tournament,I shake my opponents hand and say "good shooting" .If I win it is often "good match".
 
Neil said:
You are always going to get the complaining. But, look at what the handicap was, and the final score; both 5's, and score was 5-0. The best thing to tell the loser when he whines is to ask him what he thinks the winners handicap should be. Odds are he will say a 6. Then, just point out to him that the score still would have been 5-0 with the winner needing just one game. The winner was hot that night, and the loser was probably playing way under speed and payed for it.
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I have thought of that before too Neil...lol. I guess you could always kick him while he's down, and ask, "ok, you think you can get to 5 before I get to 1?? - right now???" Nah, I might think it, but I wouldn't say it. :p
 
TheMadScientist said:
Get out of handicapped leagues.
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I did for a couple of years....but my buddies dragged me back in, citing a number of things that make this one better than the last one we played in. I will admit though, the competition is MUCH better, and other than the (like I said in my initial post) occasional tiff, the league is FUN.
 
trustyrusty said:
I play in a semi-local league. It's barbox 8ball, call pocket, ball in hand on fouls and scratches, yada yada yada. It is a "handicapped" league, but handicaps aren't figured by a super-secret formula, or fed into a complicated computer program; it's committee based (meaning the LO and a select few VERY good players).

The league, like others that have handicapped rankings, has it's detractions....such as the inevitable whining that this player is under handicapped, or "I" can't play as whatever number I happen to be. For the most part though, it's not as bad as other leagues I've participated in. Now for the sore loser part....

It seems anytime there is a completely one sided match-up, the "whining" steps up to another level. First let me point out that in this league you play a race to whatever you are ranked (for example two 5s play a race to 5), and the other difference over other leagues is LOSER breaks....so, no worries about NEVER shooting in your match. Yet, despite that, there will usually at least once every couple of weeks be one match is COMPLETELY lopsided (say, 5-0), where the losing opponent gets bitter, and heads back to his teams table to get them bitter as well.

So, here's my question....if one player, even of mediocre skill, has a hot night, what's the best way to diffuse the situation that is likely to arise? I know that many players look for excuses for their loss, and that's likely the reason for the sandbagging jabs, rolling of eyes after saying his/her handicap....etc. etc. etc. I'm not idealistic, wanting pats on the back for the winning player, and all giggles and smiles, but the opposite is getting OLD. Should I just resign to thinking the pettiness will just be a part of this form of competition, or is there a way to have a handicapped league where everyone isn't questioning everyone elses morals, ethics, ulterior motives, or whatever?
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i wish i knew the answer to this. i have had great nights and it always starts - they start calling me the "s" word, yep, sandbagger. in fact it some times happens before i even play. yet on the days when i get the ever lovin shit kicked outta me, not a peep about how thier player wooped the ass end out of a sandbagger - 'cause what would that make thier guy? now i am speaking only about my apa experiences. in my bca league i don't think anyone really cares about the handicap because it doesn't directly affect thier one game with me. but in the apa i play as a 5. now in 8 ball they go up to 7, 9 ball they go up to 9. which means i play right about in the middle of the scale. so shouldn't i be able to play at a fairly high level? i played a another 5 in 9 ball about two weeks ago who i have played before. we usually have pretty even match ups but it was his day and killed me. he was making four balls on breaks, broke and ran a rack. i mean he was just having a great day. when it was over i shook his hand and had a laugh with him. i even congratulated him in the middle of the match on the rack he ran. i know he wasn't cheating, i've played him enough. and i have had those days where i am breaking and running and playing lights out, but i have also had those days where i can't hit two in row. now, i know there are players who dump. it's no secret. i play in a division with a guy who played in the bca with me as a 7, the same thing i am in the bca. but in the apa he plays as a 4. and destroys me. i just don't know what to say about that. i don't think there's any thing you can say or do to alleviate tensions caused by handicaps. when some one loses who doesn't feel he should there will usually be some hard feelings.
 
In any kind of a handicapped league there will be people that sandbag. In my experience in the apa i see alot of teams throwing there 3's-5's against me. Im a 7. Just to keep them down and for their teams big guns not to loose face. Im a single dad and have limited time on league nights so i have to play in the 1 first 3 matches.

But back to the original post. Some people just like to complain about losing. Its that simple, either they need to practice more to maintain there skill or maybe their having a off night and someone else is hot. Not to be rude but anyone middle of the road 5sh apa could have a off night and miss alot of balls and easy outs. But 5-0 in a loser break situation. There just isn't anything to gripe about. APA should do something like this. People tend not to enjoy getting 5 packs put up on them. lol
 
cannon

I'm a team captain in apa and I sometimes play my 3's and 4's on the 7. It's not to get their handicap down or to add a low score, it's to give them the experience of playing a higher player. Most of the time it's a teaching tool on cue ball control or safeties. Or if we play our strong players 6 or 7 that's a 50/50 chance of winning and knowing my player has a 90% chance of beating any other player on the team, if we need the point to move up to qualify we'll do that. Besides if we play a 3 or 4 on a 7 it's a smaller race and our percentage of winning goes up a bit. The 7 has to play well, which gives us a good match to watch and learn by. Most of the time the 7 isn't put up but matched against. But, if you have to leave early it does limit you. If I have a player that goes up in their handicap I like to play them against a stronger 3 or 4 or someone 1 level ahead of them. This way if they win then they can handle the new level if they lose, they will then learn from the experience. Because odds are they will go up anyway and will need the knowledge to play at the higher level. We try to stay up beat and we act the same if we are winning 5 or losing 5.
As far as the whining well, that's just some people's nature. If my team is doing that we shut them down quick. Sometimes it's just they are mad at them selves and don't want to look in the mirror.
 
To play devil's advocate... there are always 2 sides to a story.

Sometimes there really are sandbaggers in the league, believe it or not. Hahaha..

I think it's really up to the coordinator to decide if its really just someone being whiny or if there is a cause for concern. Unfortunately there will always be people under-rated as this world isn't perfect.

I just had an incident where I got killed 5-1 by a new player in the league. I know it happens and accept it. We shook hands and I left to chit chat with other people. About a half hour later, a buddy comes up to me and goes on and on about my opponent. Long story short, the guy I played is handicapped higher at local tournaments and finishes in the money.

So at the end of the night I told the coordinator the story I was told and suggested for him to keep an eye on my opponent.

I am a true believer in letting the coordinator make decision. The league is only as successful as the coordinator.

My .02
 
You can still play league. Just make it a non handicapped one.

Why would I want to play a better player with a handicap thought up by someone anyway... without the option to adjust the spot...right?
 
TheMadScientist said:
Get out of handicapped leagues.
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That's one option. Here's another: Since it seems to be a local (aka=non-sanctioned) league, see if you can talk the "commitee" into handicapping the teams instead of individual players in the next session. It works very well in my BCA league. I've found this system to be far superior to player handicapping and puts a stranglehold on "sandbagging" or other handicapping issues (as in the "whining").

Maniac
 
I run a handicapped BCA league and just heard this same thing last week, but not about 1 player, but an entire team of players.

"What are these guys rated?"

Me: "3 of them are 5's, a 6 and a 7"

"That's ridiculous, they are running out from everywhere"

Me: "Must be having a good night and/or they are in your head huh?"

"They are underrated."

Me: "I've noticed your team as playing above your ratings in multiple weeks."

"What, no way, these guys are definitely underrated."

Me: "Well, they lost to the last place team last week by a score of 13 - 5"

"Really? Wow!"

Me: "Talk to you later...."


Unfortunately this is part of the game and for some stupid reason it's a competitive reflex when people are losing. This is the easiest excuse people grasp for. I just tell them that over time all things equal out and they are rated correctly just as they are and walk away.

Don't sweat the small stuff.
 
My experience around here is that the best players are almost always the best sports, win or lose. Keeping that in mind makes it easier to ignore the occasional knucklehead.
 
Some whining is just based on what kind of human being is doing the talking, and nothing you say will change it. The same guy who whines too much in league goes home and whines too much at his wife, and bìtches at his coworkers about the work or his boss, and so on.

One thing that helped me understand and eventually accept handicapping is when it was explained to me this way:

The goal of handicapping is NOT to make the match fair. In a fair world, the guy who played longer, worked harder, and shoots better automatically wins pretty much every single time.

The goal of handicapping is to give everyone an equal chance regardless of skill level. EQUAL chance. As in, it's a 50/50 coin flip who will win. If the handicapping is perfect, nobody really is sure what the outcome of the match will be when the two players chalk up their cues at the start. Even if it's a 7 vs. a 2 or whatever.

Most handicaps are sort of a hybrid... they skew things so that the 2 has a better chance, but the better player still has the deck stacked in his favor a little and still should win. Maybe that's what happened to the 5-0 guy. It's a mix of the handicapping being too "fair" and the lesser player having an off day.
 
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