Leauge Pool Vs Gambling...a rant.

thintowin said:
sounds like an APA thing. Most seasoned gamblers would probably smirk at your post or maybe I'm just showing my age.
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I agree. Most of the guys I gamble with don't even know how to spell APA. All they know about leagues is they make a lot of noise at the pool room when we are trying to gamble. You can count on them yelling or screaming when you are down on the money ball.
 
BrokeHustler said:
APA will make you shoot bad eventually because you can get away with stuff on a bar box that doesn't fly on a 9ft, i think it is bad for your stroke and you can't develop a stroke that's powerful and accurate on a bar box.
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I find the 8ft Valley bar box to be tougher than some 8ft brunswicks I have played on. The pocket shelf is deeper on the brunswick but the pockets are bigger. So to me the difference is you can cheat the pockets easier on a brunswick than a valley but its also easier to rattle a ball and leave it sitting in the pocket.

Obviously a 9ft diamond is going to really help your stroke over a long period of time but that can be said over just about any table.
 
walrus_3d said:
That's the problem with most of the higher skill levels in the APA. He tells you you should've gotten the point for that ball, but you pretend that you missed it because you were going for the runout. You should've played a lock-down safety to make your opponent kick at that ball, so you still get the point for that ball and every other ball in the run. Pros don't run racks because they run racks, they run racks because they know the difference between a low-percentage shot and a high-percentage safety.
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Bingo!!!! Points or racks doesn't really matter. You should always be trying to keep control of the table, whether it's running out or playing safe to get back. If you do it right the points will come and the racks will be won.
 
Missing Link said:
Hey Guys...long time lurker, but my first post.

I play local APA (I know...let the hazing begin) and also like to play a good money game when I can find one...it seems like having a "rank" ruins your ability to gamble to and extent around here...everybody wants to gamble and get spotted balls based on APA rank...the local shooters act like "APA is KING" and all the fun and friendly wagers are slowly going out the window since I started playing leauge pool.
Has anybody else noticed this? Or is it just my first year in APA and this is just how it is?
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If thats the case I suggest sand bagging. It may cost your team place money in APA, but your ensured a nice spot in a larger APA tournament.

I know guys that do this in BCA, even during league play to avoid raising the handicap.
 
xianmacx said:
Nail on the head.
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I agree and there lies the real problem. Mixing the gamble with league play.

I've seen the BCA rep sand bag his team with 3 masters "your allowed one"
Another game they play is not turning in score sheets when were close to the money. Keeping the team their shooting against shooting in the dark, all the while knowing just what they need to take the hill.

Long story short that's the nature of "some" gamblers, to use every possible angle to improve the odds. My story is I've watched hard core gamblers screw up league play. IMHO the two should be kept separate. It got so bad that the BCA rep turned the paper work over to someone else but he still owns the franchise.
 
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walrus_3d said:
Weird. I play APA and I joined the team so I could play pool, improve my game, and help other people improve theirs. Practicing for free isn't nearly as much fun as paying to play my game and coaching others with theirs.



That's the problem with most of the higher skill levels in the APA. He tells you you should've gotten the point for that ball, but you pretend that you missed it because you were going for the runout. You should've played a lock-down safety to make your opponent kick at that ball, so you still get the point for that ball and every other ball in the run. Pros don't run racks because they run racks, they run racks because they know the difference between a low-percentage shot and a high-percentage safety.
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I think you missed my point. Just to clear things up.

1. If I'm called on to play I do play and I give it all I have. The free practice time makes it worth it to me. It is part of trying to continue to improve.

2. I'm not trying to run out racks just to run racks, but there is a right and a wrong way to play a shot in most cases. Sometimes someone who might not play position that well can't understand why you tried to play a shot a certain way. I play safe when it's a low percentage shot. Even the pros miss shots sometimes, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong shot to take.
 
$player said:
League play shennanigans has nothing to do with the heart and beauty of 2 players matching up for the cash.

Pool is not a team sport. Like golf or tennis it is a simple contest of the best player wins.

When playing for bigger $ you can always rest assurred that you will see the other player's best game. If they want to lay down for $100 plus sets, well you may have found the gravy train.
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That is complete BS. People play all the time for free and bring there best game. Didn't I hear somewhere that the Miz didn't like to gamble at pool......
 
$player said:
League play shennanigans has nothing to do with the heart and beauty of 2 players matching up for the cash.

Pool is not a team sport. Like golf or tennis it is a simple contest of the best player wins.

When playing for bigger $ you can always rest assurred that you will see the other player's best game. If they want to lay down for $100 plus sets, well you may have found the gravy train.
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I beg to differ. four or five players is just that, a team.
your assessment of league shennanigans caries no weight when the shennanigans are perpetuated by the local players IE gamblers.

I've been in this game a number of years. My dad and grandad owned a small pool hall in the 60's. There are two types of pool players, and I'll use an analogy everyone can understand.
Type 1 Willy Mosconi
Type 2 Rudolf_Wanderone "Minnesota Fats"
 
98% of the time I can take the APA highest handicap,8,or 9 ball,and rob
the Esblished APA player with their spot.I am under shortstop speed so what does that tell you about APA's handicap?
I run a handicapped 9ball trn where I am adjusting handicaps till the weak
players can win/place like the better players. It is damn tough to fairly hndcp matches a bad players make more mistakes,and are not able totake advantage of the few mistakes the better players do.If anything isgoing to be fair it has to the same odds of winning for both players.Good
players will quit claiming it is to hard to win.50% proposition isnt what
they have worked for!
Just my take on the scenario,Jack
 
$player said:
When you lose spotting the 6 out called and wild on the break sometimes it isn't your fault. When I lose to weaker players it's often because when they miss they leave me such horrible first shots or safe. If we played pro 10 ball rules and could push back to the player that missed and got lucky, well they would never win.

I would compare league play and higher level action to miniature golf and big golf. The player motivations, skill levels and expectations are just so radically different.
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Do you mean there is no "dumping" in league play?Seriously, you are only
backing up what I believe.
 
alphadog said:
Do you mean there is no "dumping" in league play?Seriously, you are only
backing up what I believe.
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What is the difference between "dumping in league play" or setting up a mark by playing below your real speed.... I believe you romantics call it "hustling"?

Oh I forgot. "Hustling" is cool and you're gambling, leagues are not "cool" and aren't supposed to be gambling. Silly me.
 
alphadog said:
98% of the time I can take the APA highest handicap,8,or 9 ball,and rob
the Esblished APA player with their spot.I am under shortstop speed so what does that tell you about APA's handicap?
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APA is an amateur league. Shortstop is semi-pro or minor pro level, so yeah, obviously if your speed is shortstop you should be better than 99% of the amateur players in the APA.

What's your point?
 
walrus_3d said:
APA is an amateur league. Shortstop is semi-pro or minor pro level, so yeah, obviously if your speed is shortstop you should be better than 99% of the amateur players in the APA.

What's your point?
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True dat!

:thumbup:
 
Here's how I see it...gambling brings out your real game and piss-pool -anything-goes APA doesn't...some "Super 7's" in APA get arm lock with 100$ on a table and some SL4 guys can break and run in a money game. I think APA is fun, and a good way to enjoy pool and a night out....but it seems to be taken to seriously in some was and not enough in others.

On the other hand....I get pissed when we are having our "Sunday night games" for some friendly wagers and APA rank keeps getting thrown in.....a 4 isn't always a 4.
 
justadub said:
What is the difference between "dumping in league play" or setting up a mark by playing below your real speed.... I believe you romantics call it "hustling"?

Oh I forgot. "Hustling" is cool and you're gambling, leagues are not "cool" and aren't supposed to be gambling. Silly me.
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I feel everybody has the right to play however they want. If others want to look down on them for that, it is their problem, but the "problem" is within those observers. If a player reaches a 10 playing level, and wants to play like a 5 one day, the more power to him, that's the right he has earned, he can play bad, or good as he can, and nobody really has the right to judge him for it. Yet they do! And that is the problem.

We have somehow collectively all come to this conclusion that misrepresenting our game is bad... but it's not. Businessmen deceive during negotiations everyday, are they bad guys? It's just society that tells us, these guys are bad, but these guys over here doing pretty much the exact same thing are good. It's all ingrained BS, and we owe it to ourselves to really think about why it is bad. If you can state one solitary problem with somebody misrepresenting his game in a tactical sense, perhaps you can persuade me. But the real truth is, this is a game, people want to win, and they are within their rights to do whatever they want or think they needs to do to get there. If you want to judge them for it, that's your bad, as you are being just that, judgemental.
 
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