Leauge Pool Vs Gambling...a rant.

I once asked two obvious bangers (who were busy playing each other and bragging on their ability to bank a ball after they missed shape) if they wanted to play for five dollars a game. Their immediate response was "You don't want to play us, we play league".

I felt "kinda" guilty after I robbed them of their beer money. I hope they learned their lesson that league players need to play league, learn the game and then decide if gambling on pool is a "type" of pool they want try.
 
I agree with insanepoolgod.....leauge and gambling are 2 diffrent types of pool and those who are good at one may not be good at another. That is the reason for the thread....me complaining about those who try to blend the two and ruin both.
 
The Chinchilla said:
I feel everybody has the right to play however they want. If others want to look down on them for that, it is their problem, but the "problem" is within those observers. If a player reaches a 10 playing level, and wants to play like a 5 one day, the more power to him, that's the right he has earned, he can play bad, or good as he can, and nobody really has the right to judge him for it. Yet they do! And that is the problem.

We have somehow collectively all come to this conclusion that misrepresenting our game is bad... but it's not. Businessmen deceive during negotiations everyday, are they bad guys? It's just society that tells us, these guys are bad, but these guys over here doing pretty much the exact same thing are good. It's all ingrained BS, and we owe it to ourselves to really think about why it is bad. If you can state one solitary problem with somebody misrepresenting his game in a tactical sense, perhaps you can persuade me. But the real truth is, this is a game, people want to win, and they are within their rights to do whatever they want or think they needs to do to get there. If you want to judge them for it, that's your bad, as you are being just that, judgemental.
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That's a very nicely written way of saying it's OK to scam people.

That's cool, if that's your thing. As for me being "judgemental" about it, I guess I'm guilty. And I'm cool with that, too.

The hypocrisy of believing it's OK to scam someone by hustling and then to complain about sandbagging in a league always amazes me. But the more I learn about pool, the less I'm "amazed" these days....
 
hmmm

insanepoolgod said:
I once asked two obvious bangers (who were busy playing each other and bragging on their ability to bank a ball after they missed shape) if they wanted to play for five dollars a game. Their immediate response was "You don't want to play us, we play league".

I felt "kinda" guilty after I robbed them of their beer money. I hope they learned their lesson that league players need to play league, learn the game and then decide if gambling on pool is a "type" of pool they want try.
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Well,the world is filled with folks who think they are bigger, badder, better than they really are, thus that would also include a few league bangers or some of the folks we work with, drink with, hang with, etc. Just human nature to want to appear better than you really are. I had a friend years ago, Rod, and he was not very bright, and he knew it and accepted it. Never tried to be anything he was not, lots of prop to him for being true to himself !!

But I don't think that puts everyone in the same boat. Most league players never really played "real" good players. Noticed I said most because there are also some very competitive leagues. We gotta fade Mike Eck and Jim Engles action in my league, not to mention a bunch of other "masters" and close to master status folks in my league. And even some APA leagues have some pretty darn good 7's hanging around...

Now, the same with gambling. Most guys in my league don't gamble except the top players. And they play each other and thus pretty fair matches. That being said, some folks play pool and compete as hard as possible regardless if for cash or a trophy.

One of my old teamates didn't give two craps about the money. He had plenty of money, so gambling just didn't mean that much to him, the same goes for league payouts, he didn't need the money. But playing in the toughest league in the Chicago area, that 1st place trophy meant to him what cash meant to a road hustler. And he brought his "A" game every week !!!

Just different strokes for different folks.
 
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Most league players are fickle when it comes to gambling,sure there are those that do gamble..heck most league players are delusional anyways..at least this is what I've seen over the years of play.I am amused when I hear some one go off on another for not wanting to play for five bucks..when in fact the one going off is the better player,an just trying to push the weaker player in to a game..I see this go down alot with league players...they think their hustling,an whine about theres no action...sheeesh..lol.Some will bash apa players,because of the slop an the fact most really can't pool..The same can be said for bcapl or most leagues..I say this..take the * TRASH * out of the leagues.
Now...for the gamblers
This not about that guy thats streight up an forward with his intentions..Hes here to gamble an willing to make a game.
But there is so much trash out there playing pool an think they are the real deal..yet when a real player steps up they shut up..or better yet they will not even ask that * guy * for a game..why..they can't win...they can't still..*HES* no atm..
Imop a real player an gambler doesn't have time to screw with league players..unless of course the league guy has the money an approches the player..walk in to any pool hall..ask who the best players are..and say you want to play some for ex amount of money..quit going to the bars an trying to steal from the little guy..unless thats your game..if so...so be it.
What ever your game..enjoy it. If your going to rob people,make sure they enjoy the game while your doing it..other wise your killing your own action..an becoming part of the problem.
Thats my rant.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Well,the world is filled with folks who think they are bigger, badder, better than they really are, thus that would also include a few league bangers or some of the folks we work with, drink with, hang with, etc. Just human nature to want to appear better than you really are. I had a friend years ago, Rod, and he was not very bright, and he knew it and accepted it. Never tried to be anything he was not, lots of prop to him for being true to himself !!

But I don't think that puts everyone in the same boat. Most league players never really played "real" good players. Noticed I said most because there are also some very competitive leagues. We gotta fade Mike Eck and Jim Engles action in my league, not to mention a bunch of other "masters" and close to master status folks in my league. And even some APA leagues have some pretty darn good 7's hanging around...

Now, the same with gambling. Most guys in my league don't gamble except the top players. And they play each other and thus pretty fair matches. That being said, some folks play pool and compete as hard as possible regardless if for cash or a trophy.

One of my old teamates didn't give two craps about the money. He had plenty of money, so gambling just didn't mean that much to him, the same goes for league payouts, he didn't need the money. But playing in the toughest league in the Chicago area, that 1st place trophy meant to him what cash meant to a road hustler. And he brought his "A" game every week !!!

Just different strokes for different folks.
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The better a person gets a pool, the harder it is for that person to find players to compete against of his caliber. After a while, a gifted/motivated player has to quit the leagues and have to"play for money (clearly leagues are not modeled based upon turning a profit, except for the operators) to play top level competition.

Surely everyone has heard that you have to play better players to get better...That leads to playing players who are so good (or at least think they are) that you can only get a competitive game by playing straight up money games or tournaments.

Leagues are great and gambling is great...I've enjoyed both.
 
hmmm

insanepoolgod said:
The better a person gets a pool, the harder it is for that person to find players to compete against of his caliber. After a while, a gifted/motivated player has to quit the leagues and have to"play for money (clearly leagues are not modeled based upon turning a profit, except for the operators) to play top level competition.

Surely everyone has heard that you have to play better players to get better...That leads to playing players who are so good (or at least think they are) that you can only get a competitive game by playing straight up money games or tournaments.

Leagues are great and gambling is great...I've enjoyed both.
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I hear ya,, but some leagues are run great. The league I play in is a house league sanctioned by ACS. That means the money goes back to the players. But also, there are so many very good to top players, you could play in this league forever and never be the top dog.

Plus, we have lots of local tourneys that you can play against the best players around, and only a short drive from Wisconsin that has some very good tourneys as well.

I know I use this comparison before, but even softball players are NOT all alike. You got your 7's that play shortstop, CF and pitch, and a couple of 6's at 3B and 2B, and a 5 in LF and a 4 in RF. Trust me, the lower skilled softball players are having just as much fun as the stud's on the team.

And when the day comes that you are the top dog in the top league in the area, I think you have accomplished a lot. I would love to be that guy!!. At that point my game would not have to get much better since I'm not going to quit a well paying job for one that pays a sh*t load less !! So, if you hit that "ceiling" in your area, just enjoy being the top dog. They always say it's lonely at the top,,, maybe one day I will find out myself...
 
Missing Link said:
Hey Guys...long time lurker, but my first post.

I play local APA (I know...let the hazing begin) and also like to play a good money game when I can find one...it seems like having a "rank" ruins your ability to gamble to and extent around here...everybody wants to gamble and get spotted balls based on APA rank...the local shooters act like "APA is KING" and all the fun and friendly wagers are slowly going out the window since I started playing leauge pool.
Has anybody else noticed this? Or is it just my first year in APA and this is just how it is?
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5 lines?? you should contact JB Cases and see what he charges for Rant lessons:thumbup:
 
walrus_3d said:
APA is an amateur league. Shortstop is semi-pro or minor pro level, so yeah, obviously if your speed is shortstop you should be better than 99% of the amateur players in the APA.

What's your point?
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Point is I play UNDER shortstop speed and if I play to the highest APA
rank I am a lock against 98% of the the APA players. With that being
re-said, the point which you missed is....THE APA HANDICAP IS A.....:angry:
Re-read my post I didn't say anything about hustling.
 
justadub said:
What is the difference between "dumping in league play" or setting up a mark by playing below your real speed.... I believe you romantics call it "hustling"?

Oh I forgot. "Hustling" is cool and you're gambling, leagues are not "cool" and aren't supposed to be gambling. Silly me.
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WHO YOU CALLING ROMANTIC?:thumbup:
 
justadub said:
That's a very nicely written way of saying it's OK to scam people.

That's cool, if that's your thing. As for me being "judgemental" about it, I guess I'm guilty. And I'm cool with that, too.

The hypocrisy of believing it's OK to scam someone by hustling and then to complain about sandbagging in a league always amazes me. But the more I learn about pool, the less I'm "amazed" these days....
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So, if a great chess player lulls his opponent into thinking he doens't know what's coming, ie, he tricks him into thinking he is a weaker player, then he takes advantage of this move and wins the game, he's a scamer, a huster? No, he' not perhaps? Well, what's the difference. There is none!! You think this way because you were conditioned to think this way.

This is just another instance of people that want to self proclaim themselves righteous actually hurting pool. I'd be happy to debate this with you in a thread of its own. I encourage anybody else to join in, I think I can change some minds. I'll try and start the thread sometime today.
 
$player said:
A player playing for real money shows tremendous heart. They are ready to put their mone and game on the line to see if it stands the test. Not hiding in the weeds like some underated APA 5. They are the real clowns.
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But in setting up a game with your prospective fish, you don't play anywhere near your top speed isn't lying in the weeds? It's just a different clown at the same cirucs.
 
alphadog said:
Point is I play UNDER shortstop speed and if I play to the highest APA
rank I am a lock against 98% of the the APA players. With that being
re-said, the point which you missed is....THE APA HANDICAP IS A.....:angry:
Re-read my post I didn't say anything about hustling.
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Deleting since I didnt read the post accurately
 
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