leaving the CB in the middle of the table on a break

Patrick Johnson said:
Sure: more speed = longer hops = CB airborne at OB. But the hopping CB is an undesirable side effect, not an essential ingredient.


Trying just means moving the CB a little back or forward.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


For what it's worth, my best break is at about 23mph give or take a little. I can hit into the 30mph range, with almost ZERO CONTROL. I will also "CHOKE UP" on my cue a bit for my break shot. Something I learned from TheSleeve. (He has the most powerful break I have ever seen, including Shane.)

Square hit on the rack + correct contact on cue ball = good break.


Also, one tip to any body who cares,

LEVEL STICK AT POINT OF CONTACT WITH CUE BALL WILL GIVE YOU MUCH MORE POWER.

I have a check list when I practice my break,

1. Preshot routine.
2. Correct bridge, as to achieve my half tip above center.
3. Stair down the point of contact on rack.
4. Level stick at point of contact with stick and cue ball.
5. Leverage body forward (not upward) slightly after contact with cue ball.
6. Finish with tip resting on cloth.
7. Pull stick off table before balls hit it.


Keep in mind you'll have to adjust for what works for you, but this is a winning formula for A LOT of good players.

Hope this helps,

Justin
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Shane rises before contacting the cue ball. That's where he gets his speed - by straightening his arm and adding his shoulder muscles.

I agree with you that mere mortals probably shouldn't try to do that.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


When I was watching him here in SF he was. His rise is nearly simultaneous. with contact, but it is shortly after when it's working well.

Can we get a Swing vision camera on this kid? LOL
 
jhanso18 said:
You should NEVER look at the cue ball on ANY shot while pulling the trigger. Eyes should always be on the target ball. You will find even more success if you start stairing the rack down like a regular shot.

best,

Justin
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, I have been playing for 30years and about 20years when I learned this. It takes nothing from your break. Once I am inline I focus on the spot I am hitting the CB and 9 out of 10 I hit it dead flat. Never had this success looking at the 1 ball. I am not saying this is politically correct but I have tried both ways for years. Try it and then give me some feedback.
Peace
 
peteypooldude said:
I have to disagree, I have been playing for 30years and about 20years when I learned this. It takes nothing from your break. Once I am inline I focus on the spot I am hitting the CB and 9 out of 10 I hit it dead flat. Never had this success looking at the 1 ball. I am not saying this is politically correct but I have tried both ways for years. Try it and then give me some feedback.
Peace
Click to expand...


I have tried it. It messed up my break BAD. The best players in the world tend to agree with me, but that being said, I am a firm believer that if you find something that works, keep with it.

The beautiful part of this game, is that although I would consider my break, head and shoulders above most peoples break, it doesn't mean it's the only way. I've taken bits and pieces from both Shane and Adam Behnke, and my own twist to make it work for me. I stop the ball generally in the middle of the table, Almost always a beautiful spread. (Mind you it seems like a can never run out as often as I should!!!)

All any one should do is look for a way to get the job done. If it works for you great!

The #1 thing more important than anything else, is to PRACTICE!!!!!! If you don't practice your break, and you already play pretty well, practice your break and you'll see the next level in your game fast! I've seen it from alot of players that went from pretty good to REALLY STRONG, just by nailing down their break.

best,

Justin
 
jhanso18 said:
You should NEVER look at the cue ball on ANY shot while pulling the trigger. Eyes should always be on the target ball. You will find even more success if you start stairing the rack down like a regular shot.

best,

Justin
Click to expand...

Nice parroting of conventional wisdom, but you're wrong.

For the break shot we're talking about the same strike on the CB, to the same point on the 1 ball, with the same speed, each and every time. This ought to be highly repeatable, as long as your mechanics are highly repeatable. The speed involved with the break shot (and the body movement/pivot) can cause minute mishits on the CB, and for me I find eyeballing the CB last when breaking highly conducive to accurately hitting where I'm aiming on the CB.

Give it a try, you'll be surprised at the results.

-roger
 
peteypooldude said:
I have to disagree, I have been playing for 30years and about 20years when I learned this. It takes nothing from your break. Once I am inline I focus on the spot I am hitting the CB and 9 out of 10 I hit it dead flat. Never had this success looking at the 1 ball. I am not saying this is politically correct but I have tried both ways for years. Try it and then give me some feedback.
Peace
Click to expand...

Nice tip.

If there is any shot on the table that you could get away with looking at the cue ball last it would be the break shot. The head ball is in the same place EVERY time. It's not going anywhere. It's a little different than all the other random shots.

I've messed around with looking at the cue ball last on certain types of shots including the break shot and it's something that can't just be totally dismissed because someone said so....because I just said so.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There are lots of videos of Shane breaking - no guesswork needed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcNyh2b739o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOLH4loShWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA3JCQuEu-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zg4KMjgY0k

Here's a slomo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckHn11JxkQ

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I can't get these to work for some reason.

Either way, I can tell you I put alot of cue balls on the floor learning to break the way I do now. It was worth it, but you might want to get a catcher at the other end of the table if you're going to try it. ;-)

best,

Justin
 
BasementDweller said:
I've messed around with looking at the cue ball last on certain types of shots including the break shot and it's something that can't just be totally dismissed because someone said so....because I just said so.
Click to expand...

IIRC Ralf Soquet agrees, CB last on the break. But that really shouldn't matter either way, except to inform you that it's not an entirely original idea from us bangers.

-roger
 
buddha162 said:
Nice parroting of conventional wisdom, but you're wrong.

For the break shot we're talking about the same strike on the CB, to the same point on the 1 ball, with the same speed, each and every time. This ought to be highly repeatable, as long as your mechanics are highly repeatable. The speed involved with the break shot (and the body movement/pivot) can cause minute mishits on the CB, and for me I find eyeballing the CB last when breaking highly conducive to accurately hitting where I'm aiming on the CB.

Give it a try, you'll be surprised at the results.

-roger
Click to expand...


And yet the best breakers in the world look at the rack...

Like I said, tried it, it didn't work. Why don't you try looking at the cue ball when shooting a regular shot??? Trust me, I really believe that it works for you. It doesn't for me, and A LOT of people.

I'm not going to say that you or any one else that does it this way is "wrong" IMO there is no "wrong" in pool. If the balls fall in there intended pocket, you are right.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Hitting the cue ball low is not the thing to do for the "jump back and plant" break shot. You have to hit the cue ball very slightly above center. If the rack is tight -- and that's a big if -- the cue ball will naturally bounce back from the rack because the rack will act like more weight than just one ball. The cue ball is always airborne during at least part of the break shot. If it's still in the air when it hits the rack, it will bounce up some. Speed, cue ball position and cue stick elevation determine the height of the cue ball when it hits the rack.

Some players address the cue ball low on the break and then hit near the center. Maybe they need to do that for accurate aiming, but I don't think it is a generally good idea as it complicates the motion on the final stroke. At least before your final stroke, address the cue ball where you intend to hit it.
Click to expand...

It is most likely due to the conical taper (if it is conical) of the cue, with break shot the cue travels from original bridge hand location say 10-16" from tip all the way until it hits the CB , the tip rises a bit maybe 1/8 tip compounded with hands motion.
 
jhanso18 said:
Why don't you try looking at the cue ball when shooting a regular shot???
Click to expand...

Because "regular shots" are anything but regular, and break shots are pretty much the same each and every time.

It's nice that you're now saying there's no right or wrong, because your first post on the subject certainly suggested otherwise.

-roger
 
As a beginner I used to shoot the break like a regular shot (just harder) by staying down, etc. I saw that SVB and others stood up but figured I couldn't do that. Then someone posted this instruction from Charlie Bryant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkByJCwTqSo

It explains how and why to "stand up" as you draw the cue back. It's actually pretty easy and it certainly adds a lot of power to the break shot. It took me about 3 attempts before I had it right; when it's right, you know it because you can feel the power in the cue.

I get a lot more scatter out of the rack when I use Charlie's technique...but I'm not sure it's a better break because I'm not as accurate with it. But as I mentioned earlier, I'm a beginner and breaking is just one of my many weaknesses.

BTW, with this technique I don't think you can look at the CB last because you're standing over it.
 
bdorman said:
BTW, with this technique I don't think you can look at the CB last because you're standing over it.
Click to expand...

Sure you can, give it a try. You won't be rifle-sighting the shot but you can still see the tip placement.

I don't think it's really about aim point on the CB when you look at CB last anyway. I think it helps you with your timing, not pivoting until the moment of impact. Looking at the CB last you KNOW exactly WHEN you're hitting the CB, and all the pivoting and body movement can be timed accordingly.

Ultimately, looking at CB last helped me straighten out my kinks in a complicated series of movements. Now I can probably break with my eyes closed and achieve a much higher degree of consistency.
 
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