Legal shot?

Group Therapy

Group Therapy

Typical Banger
Silver Member
Alright so tonight in league, my opponent shot and missed. The cue ended up frozen to my ball. I didn't have a high percentage shot so I shot the cue to the rail and stuck it on the other side of my same ball. He wanted ball in hand claiming that I had not hit my ball and a rail. My claim is that since the cue ball was frozen to my ball prior to the shot that I had to make contact with my ball on my shot and the cue then hit the rail. Thus a legal shot.

Now that it is all said and done, I am questioning my decision. So what do you guys think? Was my shot legal?

FYI: My object ball didn't move when I shot. APA 8-ball league.
 
That is definitely a foul. I remember seeing a league player think he could do that and finding out he fouled on the spot from everyone watching.
 
I don't know about APA rules but normally if the CB is frozen to one of your balls you can't shoot away from that ball and consider that good contact.
 
Figured as much

Well, now I feel like crap. I really don't like being anything less than honest at the table. I discussed it with the guys on my team and they said the exact same thing had happened last week and the teams decided it was legal. As I mentioned initially I didn't feel right about it after I did it. Now I know for future reference. thanks for the clarification.
 
the object ball has to move after which one ball has to touch a cushion for it to be a legal shot.
Many do not know though that when the cueball and targetball are touching, you are allowed and it is possible to make a completely legal shot shooting the cueball towards teh targetball making the two run essentially together...
 
I have heard that overseas I some areas, I believe in the Philipines if memory serves me, this is actually a legal shot. But here, foul.
 
in snooker you must shoot away from a "touching ball" but have never seen it in pool rules
 
There is no specific rule in the APA rulebook concerning frozen balls. Most APA franchises will not consider it a foul as long as both players agree that the balls are frozen...basically, anything goes with frozen balls (i.e. shooting away from the OB, pushing through the OB, and double hits on the CB).

In a gambling match or non-APA tournament, it's a foul all day.
 
Drew said:
There is no specific rule in the APA rulebook concerning frozen balls. Most APA franchises will not consider it a foul as long as both players agree that the balls are frozen...basically, anything goes with frozen balls (i.e. shooting away from the OB, pushing through the OB, and double hits on the CB).

In a gambling match or non-APA tournament, it's a foul all day.
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It's a foul.

Wrong, frozen doesn't matter other than how you stroke the ball. The ball has to move weather it wobbles or several ball widths it still has to move=and show contact.
 
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IMO saying that you contacted a ball because you started frozen against it would be the same as claiming you hit a rail because you started frozen against it. Foul, but an honest mistake, and you learned from it.
 
Not a foul

subdude1974 said:
I have heard that overseas I some areas, I believe in the Philipines if memory serves me, this is actually a legal shot. But here, foul.
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If you are playing 9-ball in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship and you are on the one ball, and the cue ball is frozen to the 1-ball you can shoot into the 1-ball as long as they are frozen. That is their rule for this.
 
Group Therapy said:
Well, now I feel like crap. I really don't like being anything less than honest at the table. I discussed it with the guys on my team and they said the exact same thing had happened last week and the teams decided it was legal. As I mentioned initially I didn't feel right about it after I did it. Now I know for future reference. thanks for the clarification.
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A couple of things that might help: If you have never read the rules, it's hard for you to know what they are. If you don't know what the rules are, it's hard for you to play within them. The official rules for pool are here: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play

Unfortunately, the APA has chosen to make up their own set of rules. There are many problems with those rules (other than just not following the official set). You should go to the APA web site to get a copy.

Finally, don't expect the people around you or even the League Operator to know the rules. Few -- perhaps none -- of your teammates are likely to have read any set of rules.

Good luck.
 
Bob Jewett said:
A couple of things that might help: If you have never read the rules, it's hard for you to know what they are. If you don't know what the rules are, it's hard for you to play within them. The official rules for pool are here: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play

Unfortunately, the APA has chosen to make up their own set of rules. There are many problems with those rules (other than just not following the official set). You should go to the APA web site to get a copy.

Finally, don't expect the people around you or even the League Operator to know the rules. Few -- perhaps none -- of your teammates are likely to have read any set of rules.

Good luck.
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All good points, and very likely accurate in many parts of the country. But not necessarily everywhere.

Our LO issues a rule book to every team captain in his league, every year. What those people do with those rule books.... Well....

I know that in our division if something comes up, there are always at least a couple rule books available. There are several of us who bring them.

And you are right, Bob, anyone can go to the Apa website and print their own.

It is a good idea to go through them every so often. That having been said, i don't recall this issue directly addressed. Perhaps after work tonite I'll get a chance to look it up, but I think everyone's answers here would be correct, even within the Apa rule set.
 
Imagine that you are playing 9 ball and the cueball is frozen to the 6 ball and you shoot the 1 ball in a pocket and the 6 doesn't move. Would you call that a foul? If not, how could you call what you did legal?
 
stumpie71 said:
It's a foul.

Wrong, frozen doesn't matter other than how you stroke the ball. The ball has to move weather it wobbles or several ball widths it still has to move=and show contact.
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According to which rules? The question pertains ONLY to APA rules...which don't exist for this particular situation.

But good try...
 
itsfroze said:
If you are playing 9-ball in the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship and you are on the one ball, and the cue ball is frozen to the 1-ball you can shoot into the 1-ball as long as they are frozen. That is their rule for this.
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Well, shooting through a frozen ball is a slightly different subject than the OP, but this isn't just a US Open rule. It is generally legal to shoot through a shot when the cue ball is frozen to the OB because it does not result in a double hit when the balls are frozen.
 
Not surprised

As always you guys have made several valid points and they are all appreciated. Thats the main reason I posed the question here.... lots of knowledge in this here forum!
 
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