Lessons or No Lessons, how far did you go?

[pool-is-cool]

what speed do you play at?

I find it funny people feel the need to talk shit. This is what i play as in one of the local tourneys and have been told by a couple of friends that are much better that i play at least at this speed. I put in at least 40 hours a week playing and have for the last 10 months. When im not playing im still thinking about the game or if im at work and not busy im watching matches online. I have gotten to this point because of the passion i have for the game. Without that passion i wouldnt be where im at today.

i'm curious as to the definition of one's speed. Can anyone explain what it means to be an A, B, C... short stop... first tier... speed?

personally i don't know what i would consider to be my speed. All i play is one-pocket, and that i have been practicing regularly with people above my speed (whatever that may be) and they will usually beat me; sometime i manage to out smart them with little traps that they will bite on, but even though the games are taken seriously they are not for money so i don't know how to compare with others.

we recently played some sets of nine ball and i found it being the easiest game in the world. would someone please give me some insight to defining a players speed?

 

[Josh Palmer]

The only lessons I ever paid for were the ones that I lost while betting. While expensive over time, they pay in time. 3 things come to mind from 3 different players.

First one is George Edwards, who played great. I would play him every day for 5 a game, and would lose every day. He said "You might not think this now, but every dollar you lose, you will eventually win from someone else"

Second is Keith McCready. He told me "Never, and I mean never turn down anyone who asks you to play. If they don't want to play for what you want to play for, that's one thing- but NEVER turn them down"

Third is John Schmidt. I really wanted some advice to get to the next level. Lessons? What does he work on? What should I do.... "There is no secret to pool, just play Josh" I thought it was a little retarded at the time, but it's true.


If you just play, and critique your game (after battle), you will gain more knowledge of how to play within your abilities. Practice making bridges in awkward places. Practice lagging. Practice stop shots. When you think you get the most out of a shot, try for a little more spin/stroke.
Pool is one of the only sports that I know where the answers are on the inside of the rails, and on the bed. You can figure it all out if you spend enough time there, analyze yourself, and watch others.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I have had lessons with Jorgen Sandman, and alos with Curtis Maflin (snooker, coach for world amateur champion).

Both were good coaches and I learnt a lot. But most of what I have learned comes from playing better players, watching videos, play tournaments and hit balls.

I will recommend lessons for everyone who thinks about it, it will probably do good for your game.

Next week I was supposed to have a lesson again with snookercoach Maflin, but I am going to Gavle in Sweden to play Interpool Open. Players as Rodney Morris, Ralf Souquet, Tony Drago and a lots of amateur players will be there.

I am lucky enough, it looks like, to get a 14-1 lesson with Ralf Souquet the day before the tournament start. Nothing is agreed on yet, cause he had to do some promotionalwork with Marcus Chamat that afternoon and doesn't know how much time it will take. But if I can get a 14-1 lesson with him I am almost looking more forward to that than playing the tournament

 

[cubc]

I find it funny people feel the need to talk shit. This is what i play as in one of the local tourneys and have been told by a couple of friends that are much better that i play at least at this speed. I put in at least 40 hours a week playing and have for the last 10 months. When im not playing im still thinking about the game or if im at work and not busy im watching matches online. I have gotten to this point because of the passion i have for the game. Without that passion i wouldnt be where im at today.

Ever played a tour stop? viking, gsbt, etc. ? Anything bigger than a local tourney? If so how did you do?

and as I said.. ratings seem to be relative. You might be from bumblef*ck, wisconsin* in an area with only bar tables and a bunch of bad players then you would appear to easily be an A. But playing in tourneys that are bigger than your local tourneys will help you determine what you really play as.

And your friends that are "much" better saying you're an A player.. what are they? shortstops? or they just dont want to give up weight?

*no i dont know if bumblef*ck wisconsin exists, how well the players play, or if there are even any bad players in wisconsin period. it was just an example and probably a bad one!

 

[APA7]

A-, 14 months, "ok". Proves my point about a rating being relative.

I luv the irony here. This quote from the same guy hoo sez "Totaling 3 years playing I went from borderline retarded to being able to play pretty well. In one session of APA 9 ball on 9' tables I went to an 8". N "I was told I was a high B or low A by many people " At that rate U should B pro level by next year

Brian

 

[cubc]

At that rate U should B pro level by next year

Brian

If I'm not it wont be from lack of effort. "hoo sez".. are you even old enough to go to a pool hall?

and pooltchr:
I didnt love the chicken wing. I was afraid to change it because I did shoot well with it. But when I felt I was no longer progressing I figured it was a problem and after seeing how the lesson helped my girlfriends stroke and accuracy, seeing some guy who really couldnt play shape to save his life BUT he was deadly accurate on a tough table who she had started working with, and then talking to Kelly it made me want to at least give it a shot. It also helped she justified everything about it and why to set up the way she had me set up.

I also agree it was a good decision to change it. We had the lesson QUICK too before I changed my mind

Also whats kind of funny is her set up she teaches is pretty unique and I'll see people in various pool halls doing the same set up so I think as of right now theres only 4 people left in the entire state that havent had at least 1 lesson with her O.O They're everywhere~!

 

[Fatboy]

there are many different kinds lessions, go play someone for $1,000 thats a lesson, sit on the rail with winners and losers and those are lessions, go on the road, or have Scott Lee come over.

there are lots of lessions, perhaps the most valuable lession of all is patience and time. Some players are blessed with coordination that I still cant comphrend(just like spelling-no joke), I think that a bit of formal lesions are important especially in the begginning if I had that I would be a better player, i feel that in my gut.

So whats the best lession for instant gratification? ACTION!!! after playing someone for hours for folding $$$, go get a table alone and feel how easy it is, what was difficult the day before will be a joke. but action wont take you far if you have fundemental issues, so all the above are important,

 

[MinoInADixeCup]

I find it funny people feel the need to talk shit. This is what i play as in one of the local tourneys and have been told by a couple of friends that are much better that i play at least at this speed. I put in at least 40 hours a week playing and have for the last 10 months. When im not playing im still thinking about the game or if im at work and not busy im watching matches online. I have gotten to this point because of the passion i have for the game. Without that passion i wouldnt be where im at today.

Try to give some more objective info if you want to substantiate your skills. What size tables do you play on?

How often do you break and run in 9 ball? How often do you break and run 2, 3, 4 racks in a row?

What's your high run in 14.1? (Assuming you play the game)

These are things that you can directly compare to other players because break and runs and high runs in straight pool are situations where it's your skills against the table as opposed to you against your opponent (who may or may not suck).

Just some things to consider.

 

[Cory in DC]

You smoothed out your robot arm stroke? Look out, everybody, Cory is coming!

To stay on topic, I suspect that great players got there by a combination of desire, will, and talent, and would be great players with or without lessons. Working with an instructor for these players is probably about tweaking some aspect of their play rather than wholesale improvement. For the rest of us, lessons with a good instructor combined with serious work can take us to the next level of play, like Cory here.

I have done some fundamentals teaching myself, and what I observed is that when my students practice between sessions, they get better, and when they don't, they don't. All I was really doing for them was giving them things to practice.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have a really smooth stroke even now, but I think it's a less extreme version of the robot arm now. I'll still need some weight if I ever make it out to the Bay area.

 

[ceebee]

Ask yourself this question.... How many championship athletes don't use a coach? If the great Tiger Woods uses a coach, maybe there is something to that approach.

In the World of Billiards, that approach is not taken by the majority, but someday it will be, especially when the players that have been instructed & coached, begin to claim many victories. That scenario is coming.

Good Luck...

 

[Billy_Bob]

I feel there are some things I can't do on my own...

I can't see my stroke for example. And since this is *my*stroke, I want only the best advice as to what I should change or what I am doing wrong. So only a good pro will do for this. So I would advise going to a pro instructor, have him look at your stroke, and see what he says. Should not be too expensive. Note that my experience with local players, even the very good players is they don't know the elements of a good stroke. So pay the 2 cents on this one!

Then there is nothing like being in the middle of a game/tournament and calling "timeout" and getting advice on that specific situation from a master pool player. Getting advice on what your options are. I had this in APA and this was priceless! The things I learned could never be taught in a book or video. I just would never think of doing certain things in certain situations. Need an expert to point these things out at the correct time. Might not be as lucky as I was to get on such a team, but maybe you can pay a pro to play games with you and give you advice on your options as you play.

Other than the above, I am a book/video/internet addict. I feel there is a lot of stuff I just had to learn on my own. Basic knowledge stuff and practicing this stuff on my own. No other person can cram this stuff into my brain or practice various shots for me.

 

[Scott Lee]

Josh...That may be true, but it will take many more years to "figure it all out" without the quality lessons! With lessons the learning curve goes up dramatically for most players!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Pool is one of the only sports that I know where the answers are on the inside of the rails, and on the bed. You can figure it all out if you spend enough time there, analyze yourself, and watch others.

 

[Fatboy]

Archer was running 5 packs and the occasional 6 pack when he just turned 16. You cant train in what God left out. For the rest of us there is Scott Lee and the other BCA guys Randy, Bob J and others i cant remember. But there is no subistute for proper instruction from day one and on going support, Oscar Domengiz is proof of that, sorry for spelling your name wrong buddy. Start young, get an instructor and jump into action. i promis anyone if i had a son he would be able to beat me in 2 years if he had interest in playing. Frank Conrath SR proved that with his son in Modesto, man that kid got good fast his dad was a fair player at best but he was knowlegable.

 

[ne14tennis]

It helped me

When I was young (in my teens) I had no idea what "shape" was. I could make almost any shot if I could see it, and then I'd look for my next shot once the CB stopped rolling

The I went overseas for the better part of 2 decades and played little or no pool.

When I got back to the U.S. I decided to play again. Somewhere in those 20 years of not playing much, it occured to me "Am I missing something or doing something wrong?"

I went to a 3 day bootcamp that a BCA instructor in Dallas (Randy G) runs.

After looking at the film of my playing, listening to the things I needed to correct and putting those things into practice......yes it helped.

I'm now consistant, my fundamentals are good, I have a better aiming system and I miscue much less.

Could I have improved on my own? Maybe. AT the same rate? I doubt it.

Several things stuck in my mind from my lessons, but the one thing I share with anybody that asks is this:

Yes there are a lot of really good players and some of them have bad fundamentals. They overcame bad fundamentals to become good, what could they have done with good fundamentals?

Just my 2 cents

 

[Mark Avlon]

But beyond that, I'm dubious that there would be very much value in further "lessons". Obviously you're never done learning about the game, but I feel instructors are most useful to teach fundamentals and basics, and the more esoteric things you spend the rest of your career learning about the game, you learn from other players, from experience, from reading, and from discussing. Not from being "taught".

Aren't these forms of being 'taught'? Do you believe that these things being learned cannot be organized and taught is a class setting?

It would be difficult to find an instructor teaching this type of class, but maybe they should. Wouldn't it be more effective than learning little pieces of the years?