LET GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bbb]

many times you will read advice about
"LET THE CUE DO THE WORK"
what do you all think about a "reverse " slip stoke
ie as you stroke forward let the cue slip in your hand and do the work
then grab it after contact
tim white a controversial instructor for reasons that had nothing to do with his instructions
stroked like this
your thoughts

 

[Patrick Johnson]

many times you will read advice about
"LET THE CUE DO THE WORK"
what do you all think about a "reverse " slip stoke
ie as you stroke forward let the cue slip in your hand and do the work
then grab it after contact
tim white a controversial instructor for reasons that had nothing to do with his instructions
stroked like this
your thoughts

It should have no effect on the tip/ball impact - the hand/arm is effectively "disconnected" from that dynamic anyway because of the hand's soft flesh.

I can see some possible value if you have a tendency to tighten your grip during the stroke to "brace" for tip/ball impact, but I wonder if there are tradeoffs - in speed control, for instance.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

patrick
it really cures a lot of ailments
if you curl your wrist or grip too tight
as for speed control
the mph you give the cue has already been determined
letting go just lets it get thru the cue ball
just sayin

 

[straightline]

Johan Chua reveals that's exactly how he draws from a distance. Little like spear fishing I think. I'll wait for Shuffett's TTH Draw One.

 

[FranCrimi]

I've done extensive experimenting in the past with releasing the cue, all the way to total release, as you can see in the photo. In your case, even though your hand is on the cue all the way through, it's still considered a release. Letting the cue slide isn't a bad thing and yes, it can be helpful for certain type of shots. The problem with it is that if you use this stroke exclusively, you can easily fall into the trap of stopping your arm motion too soon while you let the cue slide forward. Once you get into the habit of stopping your arm movement too soon, you open yourself up for possible stroke timing problems. Remember, once you let go, you no longer can control the speed of the cue.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

as for speed control
the mph you give the cue has already been determined
letting go just lets it get thru the cue ball
just sayin

The question in my mind is whether the MPH is the same both ways. Does your anticipation of releasing the cue affect the final speed of your stroke?

I have no evidence one way or the other - just something to worry about.

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

I've done extensive experimenting in the past with releasing the cue, all the way to total release, as you can see in the photo. In your case, even though your hand is on the cue all the way through, it's still considered a release. Letting the cue slide isn't a bad thing and yes, it can be helpful for certain type of shots. The problem with it is that if you use this stroke exclusively, you can easily fall into the trap of stopping your arm motion too soon while you let the cue slide forward. Once you get into the habit of stopping your arm movement too soon, you open yourself up for possible stroke timing problems. Remember, once you let go, you no longer can control the speed of the cue.

thanks for sharing your experience and advice fran

 

[bbb]

The question in my mind is whether the MPH is the same both ways. Does your anticipation of releasing the cue affect the final speed of your stroke?

I have no evidence one way or the other - just something to worry about.

pj
chgo

i will try to take note PJ

 

[BilliardsAbout]

The answer has to do with Newtonian laws of physics. An object sent on a straight path then not interfered with (muscle clenching/twitching, for example) tends to continue down that straight path. Releasing the cue completely can create both great speed (like the power draw stroke mentioned) and a straight movement of the cue stick.

One of the best moments in my pool career was demonstrating trick shots I invented where I throw the cue stick/release the cue stick at an exhibition with friends. My friend Mike Massey was shooting trick shots with us and said he'd never seen this kind of trick shot before! I was thrilled.

 

[FranCrimi]

The question in my mind is whether the MPH is the same both ways. Does your anticipation of releasing the cue affect the final speed of your stroke?

I have no evidence one way or the other - just something to worry about.

pj
chgo

I think if you are thinking about worrying, you should consider the point at which you release the cue. Once you release the cue, it's no longer accelerating, right? It should start to decelerate. Therefore the point of release is important to the speed of the cue at impact. What was interesting to me in my experiments about releasing the cue, I caught myself releasing (letting it slide) earlier and earlier without realizing it. Why? I don't know why that was happening, but I found it to be a problem in controlling the speed of the shot.

Another problem I found was that once I trained myself to release the cue, I changed my stroke habit and was stopping my arm swing too soon when I wasn't releasing the cue, which threw my timing way off.

 

[bbb]

Fran
for me i dont think it will effect my normal stroke since i finish with my hand at my chest and follow thru from cue ball contact to my finish point

 

[FranCrimi]

Fran
for me i dont think it will effect my normal stroke since i finish with my hand at my chest and follow thru from cue ball contact to my finish point

Yes, that's what I thought too, until I started releasing. Things change for some reason when you start releasing. It doesn't happen all at once --- more like a gradual change over time that you almost don't even notice.... and then suddenly one day, you wonder what happened. Hey, definitely give it a try. Experimenting is a good thing. I use it on certain shots but I had to teach myself to control it and not let it become my normal stroke.

 

[bbb]

Yes, that's what I thought too, until I started releasing. Things change for some reason when you start releasing. It doesn't happen all at once --- more like a gradual change over time that you almost don't even notice.... and then suddenly one day, you wonder what happened. Hey, definitely give it a try. Experimenting is a good thing. I use it on certain shots but I had to teach myself to control it and not let it become my normal stroke.

Your advice is duly noted
Thanks

 

[One Pocket John]

Hey Larry.
The next time your down on a shot turn your focus (during practice strokes and cue delivery) to the cue weight behind your grip hand.

Pull the cue back normally then pull the cue forward to finish. The cue will go thru the cue ball naturally to finish any where from 3"-5" after impact. (with a fixed elbow)

Pay attention to smaller pro players. They grip the cue somewhere in the middle of the wrap
which places the weight of the cue well behind their grip hand. In other words they are letting the cue do all of the work with very little effort.

Try this, just hold the cue with the tip of your thumb and index finger and practice for an hour. You wont be successful with this exercise if you try to push the cue thru the cue ball. Let the cue push it's self thru the cue ball.

Focus on the cue weight behind your grip hand. As stated above once the cue has started it's forward travel it will stay on a straight line unless of course you do something funky with your grip hand or get your shoulder involved.

I'm not an instructor and offer this advise only to help.

John

 

[bbb]

Hey Larry.
The next time your down on a shot turn your focus (during practice strokes and cue delivery) to the cue weight behind your grip hand.

Pull the cue back normally then pull the cue forward to finish. The cue will go thru the cue ball naturally to finish any where from 3"-5" after impact. (with a fixed elbow)

Pay attention to smaller pro players. They grip the cue somewhere in the middle of the wrap
which places the weight of the cue well behind their grip hand. In other words they are letting the cue do all of the work with very little effort.

Try this, just hold the cue with the tip of your thumb and index finger and practice for an hour. You wont be successful with this exercise if you try to push the cue thru the cue ball. Let the cue push it's self thru the cue ball.

Focus on the cue weight behind your grip hand. As stated above once the cue has started it's forward travel it will stay on a straight line unless of course you do something funky with your grip hand or get your shoulder involved.

I'm not an instructor and offer this advise only to help.

John

Thanks john
I will try it
Hope all is well
Larry

 

[One Pocket John]

Doing well here. Got my first covid shot from the VA on 1/22, get the second shot
on 2/12.

Back to the topic: Letting the cue do the work.

My original post was on 1/9 suggesting that you give my idea a try. Today is 1/25 and I would like to know if you tried my suggestion.

What I do everyday is to shoot in 30 long straight in stop shots holding the cue as described in my post. Then I start my regular practice session using my normal grip which,by the way,is very loose. This is so I can feel the weight of the butt BEHIND my grip hand.

Hope your getting good results.

John

 

[The_JV]

Man, I can't imagine actually letting go of the cue during a shot.

I've always made an effort to remove the element of timing from the stroke. No swooping up and down. No chicken wing. No standing up until the CB has made contact with the OB. The idea of timing that release correctly and always doing so, just seems like a potential nightmare to me.

How much is to be really gained with such a practice...??? If the only argument is to correct for to strong a grip. Shouldn't the focus just be loosening it rather than throwing the cue...?

Personally, I'm at my most comfortable when I'm holding the very end of my cue. I think this is something left over from my snooker days when I located my grip with the notch most snooker cues have. I think it may go without saying...lol..., but releasing the cue from that grip probably isn't going to work out too well....lol

I have no dog in this fight. I'm just curious if this technique is actually advantageous over solid 'traditional' fundamentals..?

 

[FranCrimi]

Man, I can't imagine actually letting go of the cue during a shot.

I've always made an effort to remove the element of timing from the stroke. No swooping up and down. No chicken wing. No standing up until the CB has made contact with the OB. The idea of timing that release correctly and always doing so, just seems like a potential nightmare to me.

How much is to be really gained with such a practice...??? If the only argument is to correct for to strong a grip. Shouldn't the focus just be loosening it rather than throwing the cue...?

Personally, I'm at my most comfortable when I'm holding the very end of my cue. I think this is something left over from my snooker days when I located my grip with the notch most snooker cues have. I think it may go without saying...lol..., but releasing the cue from that grip probably isn't going to work out too well....lol

I have no dog in this fight. I'm just curious if this technique is actually advantageous over solid 'traditional' fundamentals..?

Well, here's the idea behind letting go of the cue: No matter how perfect your grip hand is or how stable it stays on the cue, there will always be the slight twist or turn as the cue moves through which ever-so-slightly changes the tip's position at impact. That change usually falls within the margin of error of most shots, so it's generally not an issue. But there are a few shots, that through experience, players know aren't worth the try, suddenly become doable when the grip is released completely off the cue where there is zero influence by the grip hand as the tip impacts the cb. I've experimented extensively with this and I know it to be true. I've done it a few times in competition and was told afterwards by pros in the stands that they thought that shot was impossible.

BTW, I didn't discover this myself. I was riding the coat tails of my friend and pro player Gene Nagy who played exclusively throwing the cue for a solid year. I was utterly surprised at the position he was able to get on certain shots. Gene encouraged me to experiment and I did.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.... But there are a few shots, that through experience, players know aren't worth the try, suddenly become doable when the grip is released completely off the cue where there is zero influence by the grip hand as the tip impacts the cb. ...

Can you give any example of such a shot?

 

[The_JV]

But there are a few shots, that through experience, players know aren't worth the try, suddenly become doable when the grip is released completely off the cue where there is zero influence by the grip hand as the tip impacts the cb.

Can you give any example of such a shot?

Not meaning to pile on... but I'm very curious as to what kind of shot doesn't seem doable unless I decide to throw the cue...?

I'm generally considered a very precise potter. If there's breathing room, I like my chances. I credit a hard fought adherence to my fundamental approach and stroke technique.

Are we talking about CB control after contact or shot making...?