Letter From Renee Sigel Regarding Mark Trainer

[Colin Colenso]

The IPT has hosted the 3 biggest tournaments in history in less than a year.

Naturally the spotlight is on them, but it's a shame to see that so many take a 'sky is falling' approach to every development.

Sure the IPT is not perfect, only a fool could have imagined it would have been. But the endless negative speculations are tiring and indicative of an overall negative outlook.

Wayne Dyer wrote a classic about people not seeing things until they believe things. Many of the insights in that book would provide valuable lessons to those who continually cry 'timber'.

I don't know if the IPT will continue another week or another 30 years, but I'll be surprised if we don't at least see a half dozen of the biggest events in history in 2007.

Still I'm sure, that should the IPT be powering on in 2010 with $40 million+ in prizemoney up for stakes, there will still be a hardy mob of critics picking at every hiccup or misunderstood decision regarding the policies of the IPT.

Colin

 

[pete lafond]

Kevin T says he started the IPT now Renee says Mike S worked
on it for 10 years and started it. Whats up?

Haven't spent much time here lately and boy has stuff hit the fan. IMO based upon others that know Mike well and what I have read in the past, Mike has always had a dream to see pool players get their recognition. I hope this happens and also for the many non-pro players who compete and have fun, because they too deserve a sport that yields respect.

It just could be Mike's dream and KT's belief in pool that makes this all happen.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Regarding Mark Trainer:

There are at least two other backers that I know of who have deals with several players along similar lines to Mark Trainer. It is a form of insurance...a gamble in other words. Some benefits are guaranteed, and if the players do well, or sponsors are found, then the backer makes some profit.

It is not the same as the sports management business, and for the players who don't have the reputation or connections to get backed by the likes of Octagon it often represents a very good deal that allows them to not worry about their finances or prospective losses for a while, and to maximize their performance preparation.

When people take out fire insurance and their house never burns down after 30 years they may regret their decision to have paid out to the insurance company. But their incentive at the time of payment was quite different.

How good Mark's offer is I don't know, but it offers some guarantees that attract the players. If they are so greedy that they take the instant gratification without appropriate consideration, then it's their own silly mistake. Caveat emptor. They are grown ups, and shouldn't depend on the IPT or anyone else to provide ideal advice or guarantees.

btw: From what I do know about a couple of the agent's deals, they do risk losing money on their contracts. Already circumstances such as the delay in the start of the 2006 season and the cancellation of the London event has hurt them considerably.

Colin

 

[Steve Lipsky]

Two quick things:

1) Any grown man who signs a contract in another language at a pool tournament from basically just some dude, without a trusted interpreter, kind of deserves to be taken.

2) MT's claim that he can only get corporate America to listen if he has a lot of different players puzzles me. What does that mean? Why is that necessary?

- Steve

 

[Big Money]

Mrs. Sigel,

I applaud your efforts to hide Mike's involvement with Mark Trainer and The IPT, but you have stated in this public message the following:

"If anything when Mike started the IPT he should of made agreements with the players since he worked so hard for 10 YEARS in getting the tour started!"

Everything that I stated in my previous post is a fact. There are many people that are oblivious to the facts and that's fine, because it will, and is all coming out in the wash. I tend to want to believe that you were not made aware of everything that Mike may or may not be involved in, being his wife and all. Sometimes it is better off if our partners don't know everything. I would not be surprised if this is how he has chosen to handle his personal/private life. Again, I applaud you on your defense of him, I would expect my spouse to do the same for me.

Here are a few things that I would like you to consider:

1) It is a fact that Mike is known to have dealings with Mr. Trainer in the past. Mr. Trainer was less than candid with name dropping when approaching the players and others. Unfortunately, he spoke to the "wrong person" when doing this. Can you honestly say that Mike has never had dealings with Mark Trainer in the past to your knowledge? Or then again, it is possible that you just don't know everything that Mike has been involved in during his life in pool. I am told that you are a beautiful younger woman, who has not been married to Mike for the length of time that he has been involved in this sport. This can factor into again, your knowledge of his involvement with the others in question.

2) Going back to the Vegas Tournament, it has come to my attention that at least 1 maybe more players have not been paid from that event. This player finished high in the money and was told to say "That he/she was paid, IF he/she wanted to get paid". This is a fact. I can understand people doubting my words because of my unknown identity, but I can assure you that this like everything else I have said, will come out in the wash. I am not intending to hurt anyone's reputation, I am telling it as I know it to be, a fact.

I am not trying to hurt the IPT, that is not the intent. Here is the problem:

Kevin Trudeau is a known con man. That's all he knows and is very good at it. This is a fact, whether you want to believe it or not. The federal Government are on to this as they are on to everything else that Kevin Trudeau does. I'm my opinion, it would not surprise me if at some point, he can't buy his way out as he has done in the past, and he does even more time. This is one good reason not to be suckered into what Mr. Trudeau is involved with.

Interesting as your statement says above, how it was Mike's idea and baby for the last 10 years. Let's face it , Mike is the one that has really profited from it in many ways that you are aware of. Another tit bit, is that Mike not only was paid cash but holds some major stock in this company? Maybe you can confirm this for us. Also, if this is a fact then what dealings and percentages does Mike have with Mr. Ho? Has this all transferred due to tax purposes? Could it be that the Federal Government was on to this and that is why the IPT was sold so quickly?

Maybe you are the one that can give us some contact information for the IPT. There still is no phone number or actual mailing address for a office. Is there really an office? With real people?

My last thoughts are this below, regarding Mr. Trudeau's Character: http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/sites/0508_naturalcures.html Is the pool world really this hard up to get in bed with this man?

 

[gregory]

I heard a few days ago that Thorsten still hasn't been paid his $350,000. Anybody know for sure what the answer is?

This last tourney, he was knocked out in the first round. Can someone verify he was playing his best game?

His friend in NY seems to think he got paid. In another thread he posts, "Who said hohmann went unpaid? Not only is this NOT the case, but I can tell you that he is the BIGGEST supporter of the IPT, and he will be the last man standing, bearing their flag if/when the ipt folds, whether this year or ten years from now."
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=41323

 

[catscradle]

Is the pool world really this hard up to get in bed with this man?

Evidently, yes. Regardless of any good intentions of some of the people involved with the IPT, Kevin Trudeau is what he is.

 

[pharaoh68]

I will say this. As for the IPT, Kevin Trudeau, and Mark Trainer, I don't care to make any comment. I don't care enough about the IPT to form an opinion. But as for Mike Sigel, my respectful response would be to point out to Mrs. Sigel that Mike has for some time, been treating people throughout the industry with a great deal of disrespect. He is abrassive and obnoxious. He is arrogant. He says things that are both rude and disrespectful. As a result, why should anyone go easy on him?

 

[RBLilly]

Dang!

HOW BOUT THIS ONE?

WHO CARES???????????????????????

 

[Eydie Romano]

I disliked Mike 15 yrs ago. I found him to be extremely pompous and arrogant. The only thing that's changed from then until now is that he's worse.

You folks that worship someone just because they play great.... don't even bother singing his praises to me. I respect the game he used to have but I never have and never will respect the "man". They're two seperate things. The game he had in of itself deserved respect. Nothing about the "mans" actions towards others has deserved respect.

Well, isn't this just dandy. I post a thread and ask people to please be respectful and this is what happens.

I guess that I should have known better. I can understand people's opinions, Mike has been a very controversial person for years now, but Earl has taken the cake many times over. I am in no way defending how Mike has acted, it is extremely disappointing, but what I asked is that all were respectful to Renee Sigel and not go off. I can imagine that this has been very hard for her, and I respect that.

Timberly, I am disappointed that you elected to bash Mike as you did after I asked that this be respectful. I am disappointed in you as my friend, I would have not done that to your thread, especially after I asked people not to, instead, I would have taken it some place else for respect to me which apparently you don't have!

[/QUOTE = Blackjack]
Blackjack writes:

This is what I do care about:

That the players have something in writing that legally holds the IPT responsible to provide what they have already promised.

What's so hard about that? Is that asking too much? Obviously it is.

If this thing doesn't work out the players will have nothing that protects their interests or their promised salaries. Some of them are already in the hole despite the large payouts. Some players needed the money from Reno so that they could get back home. Compared to what she's pissed off about, what should be the top priority?[/QUOTE]

This is an extremely good point and one that should be addressed immediately. Dave, both you and I have a special interest in a particular player who is part of this mess and I as you would like to see this resolved immediately. Thank you for being respectful.

Steve ~ also good points, and thank you for being respectful as well.

Now to my biggest peeve, "Big Money" or "BM" in my book (appropriate named, I think) Weren't you happy with your own thread? Had to come to soil up mine, thanks a lot!

 

[Timberly]

Timberly, I am disappointed that you elected to bash Mike as you did after I asked that this be respectful. I am disappointed in you as my friend, I would have not done that to your thread, especially after I asked people not to, instead, I would have taken it some place else for respect to me which apparently you don't have!

I meant no disrespect to you or Mrs. Sigel and I'm sincerely sorry that you're taking this personally Eydie. I was simply trying to point out that my feelings towards Mike Sigel are not new found because of the IPT. I just wanted Mrs. Sigel to know that I disliked her husband long before the IPT and long before she ever knew him. For whatever that was worth... I made a statement and I didn't think that it was disrespectful in nature at all. This was a thread about her husband and with no malicious intent I stated that I did not like him. I'm sorry if that upsets anyone. Those have always been my feelings and I don't forsee him changing in the near future so they'll probably always be my feelings on the subject of Mike Sigel.

 

[Timberly]

I made a statement and I didn't think that it was disrespectful in nature at all.

I lied, sorry. I made the post around 6:30 this morning when I was still trying to wake up and honestly thought I simply stated that I've never liked Mike. I just went back to double check and I see where I said somethings that could've been left unsaid.

I did continue on needlessly and for that I apologize. I too have some very good friends that are currently waiting on a check right now and I am passionate about the truth being told about the IPT...good or bad. At this point, those guys waiting to get paid deserve to know all there is to know IMO. They're out a lot of money for this. Because of this, I tend to do what I just did... bring it up in some places that it shouldn't be brought up in. This thread, this morning, was one of those times.

Eydie, at first I couldn't understand why you had gotten so upset but having re-read my post, I have a little better understanding now. Again, I was just waking up and not exactly in the right frame of mind... I've made somewhat regrettable posts in the morning before... maybe I should just stick to the occasional evening.

Sorry

 

[stevelomako]

Well, isn't this just dandy. I post a thread and ask people to please be respectful and this is what happens.

I guess that I should have known better. I can understand people's opinions, Mike has been a very controversial person for years now, but Earl has taken the cake many times over. I am in no way defending how Mike has acted, it is extremely disappointing, but what I asked is that all were respectful to Renee Sigel and not go off. I can imagine that this has been very hard for her, and I respect that.


Steve ~ also good points, and thank you for being respectful as well.

Respectful? I'm actually livid that she wouldn't have the nerve to post herself and that you have the gall to post her EDITED comments second hand. Why not just put the whole UNEDITED letter out here like she wanted???

As far as yourself, it would seem to me you shouldn't be stirring up anything as a person in the business of trying to get people to go to your tournaments. Why you would want to get involved and possibly step on the toes of potential customers (tournament players) is beyond me.

 

[Eydie Romano]

Respectful? I'm actually livid that she wouldn't have the nerve to post herself and that you have the gall to post her EDITED comments second hand. Why not just put the whole UNEDITED letter out here like she wanted???

As far as yourself, it would seem to me you shouldn't be stirring up anything as a person in the business of trying to get people to go to your tournaments. Why you would want to get involved and possibly step on the toes of potential customers (tournament players) is beyond me.

Look Steve, it was edited because it had other things regarding our children and such that did not relate to pool or YOU.

I am not stepping on anyone's toes. I posted the part of the letter as I was asked to do, and just asked for some respect when people answered her, Steve. Get it? I didn't want this to turn into another flame. Get it?

I doubt anyone is not going to come to my events because I posted a part of a letter I got from her, that's just stupid.

I thanked you and Blackjack for being respectful and now you come back with this crap? That's Gall, buddy! I understand fully what's going on and I feel badly for all that are involved.

 

[Eydie Romano]

I lied, sorry. I made the post around 6:30 this morning when I was still trying to wake up and honestly thought I simply stated that I've never liked Mike. I just went back to double check and I see where I said somethings that could've been left unsaid.

I did continue on needlessly and for that I apologize. I too have some very good friends that are currently waiting on a check right now and I am passionate about the truth being told about the IPT...good or bad. At this point, those guys waiting to get paid deserve to know all there is to know IMO. They're out a lot of money for this. Because of this, I tend to do what I just did... bring it up in some places that it shouldn't be brought up in. This thread, this morning, was one of those times.

Eydie, at first I couldn't understand why you had gotten so upset but having re-read my post, I have a little better understanding now. Again, I was just waking up and not exactly in the right frame of mind... I've made somewhat regrettable posts in the morning before... maybe I should just stick to the occasional evening.

Sorry

That's okay Tim's. I still luv ya... It is just so upsetting to see how this has gone from bad to worse. I understand that people are mad, rightfully so I agree. But all I was trying to do here, was relay the message and not have it turn sour, which has now!

 

[macguy]

Regarding Mark Trainer:

There are at least two other backers that I know of who have deals with several players along similar lines to Mark Trainer. It is a form of insurance...a gamble in other words. Some benefits are guaranteed, and if the players do well, or sponsors are found, then the backer makes some profit.

It is not the same as the sports management business, and for the players who don't have the reputation or connections to get backed by the likes of Octagon it often represents a very good deal that allows them to not worry about their finances or prospective losses for a while, and to maximize their performance preparation.

When people take out fire insurance and their house never burns down after 30 years they may regret their decision to have paid out to the insurance company. But their incentive at the time of payment was quite different.

How good Mark's offer is I don't know, but it offers some guarantees that attract the players. If they are so greedy that they take the instant gratification without appropriate consideration, then it's their own silly mistake. Caveat emptor. They are grown ups, and shouldn't depend on the IPT or anyone else to provide ideal advice or guarantees.

btw: From what I do know about a couple of the agent's deals, they do risk losing money on their contracts. Already circumstances such as the delay in the start of the 2006 season and the cancellation of the London event has hurt them considerably.

Colin

An agent earns their percent. Is MT getting the players commercials and personal appearances or any kind of high paying gigs? What connections does he have, can we expect to see players turning up on Letterman or a CSI show playing a pool player who is accused of something? What does he actually do to earn his money? All I have heard sounds like lone-sharking.

 

[DaveK]

I agree 100% with Steve. I would respect Mrs Sigel more if she had signed up and posted her comments directly. I also think that her opinion ,as Mikes wife, MUST be biased towards Mike and the IPT, and I discount her words on this matter as a result. Any resonable person would, imo. Personal friends will see this differently, but they also have some vested interest (the friendship).

Eydie, they always shoot the messenger, you should know that by now. I can hardly wait to see if you post her rebuttal to this thread.

Dave, who wishes that IPT wives would understand that if the sport becomes popular there will be even more fans saying more things, and the desire of various people that everyone play and talk nice is a silly pipe dream ... fans will be fans !

 

[stevelomako]

Look Steve, it was edited because it had other things regarding our children and such that did not relate to pool or YOU.

I am not stepping on anyone's toes. I posted the part of the letter as I was asked to do, and just asked for some respect when people answered her, Steve. Get it? I didn't want this to turn into another flame. Get it?

I doubt anyone is not going to come to my events because I posted a part of a letter I got from her, that's just stupid.

I thanked you and Blackjack for being respectful and now you come back with this crap? That's Gall, buddy! I understand fully what's going on and I feel badly for all that are involved.

Look Eydie,

(1)You stated that you thought she was "rightfully upset" that people think Mike is involved with Trainer and people are saying things about him.

When you say "rightfully upset" that means you agree with her. Do you think people shouldn't be upset when Mike acts like he's running the show and it looks like they are going to get screwed. It's called "guilty by association".



(2)You said that what you posted was "part of what she wanted us to know".

So what are the other parts she wants us to know?



(3)You said you edited some "choice words" and "a sentence or two".

So what are the "choice words" and to whom are they directed?




People usually get "respect" when they give it. It doesn't sound like she has any for the pool population in general.

What's wrong with her posting what she thinks herself? It bothered her enough to write you and use "choice words".

I guess you have the wrong idea about my comment about "not stepping on toes". I would think you would want to stay uninvolved because you and your husband are in the business of getting as many people as you can to come to your pool tournaments and if you take sides it tends to alienate people that might otherwise go to your events.


If you think it's "crap" that I think she's got a lot of nerve acting the way she is......when people aren't getting paid, they're getting the run-around on everything, the problems aren't being addressed and it looks like they're sucking more money from people and might not deliver what's promised............then all I can say is.........."Whatever, lady".

Most cooks tell me, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

 

[Blackjack]

I think its a bit unfair to make Eydie responsible for Renee's comments, especially after Eydie clearly stated in the first post that she was merely relaying a message - and asked for people to be respectful in their responses. She has done her best to stay out of the back and forth bickering about the IPT and remain professional and respectful in regards to all of these issues.There are some people (unlike myself) that have chosen to keep their views on these issues private for personal and professional reasons. I can respect that more than I can respect someone needlessly shooting fire balls at a valued member of the billiard community such as Eydie Romano. I was pretty torked at Renee's comments also, but I also understand that her point of view is that of a wife that will defend her husband to the end. I respect that as well.

I hope that all of the players will receive their checks this week. When they do, hopefully all the animosity dissipates with the worrying.

 

[Colin Colenso]

An agent earns their percent. Is MT getting the players commercials and personal appearances or any kind of high paying gigs? What connections does he have, can we expect to see players turning up on Letterman or a CSI show playing a pool player who is accused of something? What does he actually do to earn his money? All I have heard sounds like lone-sharking.

I believe Mark has partnered with an agency called Athlete's First, but it doesn't look like they have secured sponsorships as yet. Perhaps in the future. Until then, yes, it's basically a backing / loan arrangement.

I think the term loan sharking is unnecessarily derogatory. For years players have been happy to cooperate with backers so they could finance match ups and attend tournaments.

Colin