Is it a skill that needs to be learned ?
Letting the cue slide ?
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
Joey...IMO not a skill to be learned, but definitely a "concept" to be learned...letting the weight of the cue and timing create the stroke speed.
The only detrimental thing in letting the cue slide in your hand, is how far to let it slide? 2"? 4"? a foot?
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
The only detrimental thing in letting the cue slide in your hand, is how far to let it slide? 2"? 4"? a foot?
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Randy, if there's daylight in the grip hand, shouldn't the cue slide on hard shots ?
Slip Stroke
I have heard of a stroke called the "Slip Stroke". This is where the cue is actually sliding forward on the final stroke and during contact with the cue ball.
If you play around with this you will notice some interesting results.
Letting the cue slide a little during the practice strokes can help you find the natural balance point of the cue.
I think the main thing about this is what was mentioned previously, the timing of the stroke.
I have heard of a stroke called the "Slip Stroke". This is where the cue is actually sliding forward on the final stroke and during contact with the cue ball.
If you play around with this you will notice some interesting results.
Letting the cue slide a little during the practice strokes can help you find the natural balance point of the cue.
I think the main thing about this is what was mentioned previously, the timing of the stroke.
Practicing a loose grip?
You can "learn" and practice a loose grip by first holding the cue with just the thumb and index finger. Begin with shots that are easy and require little force. Be sure to maintain a relaxed wrist. Shoot a few shots this way and gradually add distance and force, being constantly aware of the gentleness of your grip. You may imagine that the cue is an open (soft plastic) tube of toothpaste which you want to move forward without losing any of the paste. When you have attained the "feel" for this grip, then add fingers until you have your chosen grip. Keep in mind that the least muscle used, the easier to control your developing stroke. A good stroke is described as "relaxed", "gentle" and "smooth".
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
You can "learn" and practice a loose grip by first holding the cue with just the thumb and index finger. Begin with shots that are easy and require little force. Be sure to maintain a relaxed wrist. Shoot a few shots this way and gradually add distance and force, being constantly aware of the gentleness of your grip. You may imagine that the cue is an open (soft plastic) tube of toothpaste which you want to move forward without losing any of the paste. When you have attained the "feel" for this grip, then add fingers until you have your chosen grip. Keep in mind that the least muscle used, the easier to control your developing stroke. A good stroke is described as "relaxed", "gentle" and "smooth".
Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
A slip stroke is where the cue slips in the player's hand on the way back. If it's on the way forward it's a release but not considered a slip.
That's how I understand it .
Slip stroke is different from stroke slip.
I vaguely remember your article on letting the cue go . I believe it was on B and D .
I vaguely remember writing an article about it. There definitely is a learning process in allowing the cue to release. You have to pick and choose which shots you will allow it to happen. I wouldn't advise letting it release on every shot because you can fall into the bad habit of stopping your arm short and allowing the release as your follow through. I fell into that once and it's a hard habit to break.
A release works well on shots that you need to move the cb but must hit softly due to a small pocket due to the angle of the shot or pocket size or other reasons. You'll see one pocket players release the cue often and I think it's because they often play on tight pocket tables. I've seen Efren release the cue on certain shots on many occasions.
You can start by taking all of the pressure off of your thumb and index finger on the cue. If there's any grabbing, it will often start with those two fingers, so eliminating those will help you relax your grip hand. You may also find yourself pocketing better. Those two fingers are really bad culprits at times. I try to take as much pressure off of them as possible at all times, and I can stroke the ball pretty darn good.
Then, make sure you follow through with your arm and just 'let' the cue slide as the result of the natural momentum of your armswing. Don't try to force it to slide. Just keep your hand relaxed.
Joey, I know this was meant for Randy but I can answer it for you --in my own opinion, of course... The cue won't necessarily slide on a hard shot if there's daylight in your grip if you're hanging on to the cue with your thumb and index finger. Those are the fingers that you need to release if you want the cue to slide naturally and properly.
That's the answer, because I read on here regularly that you have to practice a loose grip but no one ever says how. Good tip Fran.
Thanks Fran.
A while back I asked about releasing here:http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=183418
The response from 2 instructors is simply not a bad thing but its complicating the stroke.
I'm still doing it I'll admit but doing it less and simply, or trying to simply, hold the cue very very light throughout.
But for whatever reason when I do release I seem to get much more action on the CB. So if I need monster spin
I do the release thing.
Someone earlier asked how do you learn the stroke slip. I like trying things to the limits. I realized I was too tight
so started playing around and landed on stroking the ball with the cue just laying on top of my index finger.
After getting that feel I brought in the thumb but made sure there was no more pressure. The thumb only made
sure the cue didn't fall off my finger. Which happened sometimes.
Lately I've gone back to a rubber grip. This takes the slide out of the equation but not the action. So in my head
I feel I have a little more control of the cue and question whether the slide by itself adds anything. FranCrimi I guess you're saying it does?
If you're still experimenting with the release, try laying the cue on your pinkie and fourth finger instead of the index finger. It may feel strange at first but you'll get a purer release.
As to whether releasing the cue adds something to the shot or not, I think you answered that question for yourself when you said that you seem to get much more action. I haven't read the thread yet that you linked but I think that hanging on to the cue througout the stroke is the more complicated way of stroking and that the release is actually the purer way of stroking. Anytime we hang on to something we can potentially restrict it.
I don't think it's necessary to release on every shot, and as I wrote before, bad habits such as stopping your armswing can creep in.
I use a rubber grip on my break cue. It allows me to stay loose during the break without sending my cue stick sailing across the room (which I've done, unfortunately).
I use a leather grip on my playing cue. It allows some slide but not excessive slide like Irish linnen, yet isn't as grippy as rubber. I know that a lot of carom players like to use a rubber grip. The balls are heavier. Maybe that's why?
For clairification I meant Does the SLIDE do anyting. With the rubber grip there no slide. My grip is very tacky.
I've stopped experimenting since settling on this several years ago but I will experiment with this forefinger/pincky technique.
As a side note I developed a tight grip playing Harry Sims for years. He it looked like he was holding a club. Actually he was 23oz.
I wasn't watching him very closely although. At some point I picked up that on delivery he released the cue. I asked him about
that and he simply said "Looks like you just learned something about billiards."
When I refer to a 'release,' I mean allowing the cue to release from your hand and slide. Anything else to me isn't a release. They would be just different versions of gripping the cue.
Fran, i agree with you 100% about the *rubber* grip. In the 80/90 s i talked to many top players from the carom scene about it. I was just curious about it. And they exactly explained *their* feeling, like you shown up. The rubber allows you to have nice *not so tight* grip, and helps many players to get this special feeling to just *let the cue do the work*. And nowadays in the pool-scene the leather grips do this, too.
my opinion
lg
Ingo
I had a twilight zone thing going on about 2 years ago where I was playing all the time and not getting in any practice... At one point I was literally starting my stroke with my grip way up into the points and having the cue finish with my grip well into the wrap area.... I didn't get a chance to record it and played lights out doing that for about 3 weeks... I did however hit a major slump after about a week off... I think that anytime you go away from simple fundamentals you are asking for problems unless you can play all of the time.......
This is an interesting thread. Thanks for the information.
Here is one. Do you pull the cue thru the stroke or push the cue thru the stroke.
Nice to read about my friend and instructor Harry Sims. He helped me with the fundamentals and instructed me on 3 cushion.
I don't play 3 cushion but his instruction really helped my one pocket game.
Thanks
John
Here is one. Do you pull the cue thru the stroke or push the cue thru the stroke.
Nice to read about my friend and instructor Harry Sims. He helped me with the fundamentals and instructed me on 3 cushion.
I don't play 3 cushion but his instruction really helped my one pocket game.
Thanks
John