Linen vs. All other wraps

rebutle

"If you have a violin, one will sound better than the other. But, if you hit someone on the head with either, it's going to hurt the same regardless of which one sounds better.

And BTW, there aren't many musical instruments that are made with one piece."

Fred,

Go back to this... "Futhermore, there is no quantifiable proof whatsoever that a one-piece cue is "better." I believe this to be a misconception based on early joint designs and the crappy sound/feel they may have produced."

All you stated was "better"... better in what way? Does the better sounding violin not sound better before you bludgeon someone to death with it? I never stated that these properties were the end all be all of a good cue, but they are important, and IMO that does make one better than another. Feedback is a very important part of pool, as much of pool is played by FEEL.

F.Y.I... as you well know, most one-piece cues are two pieces of wood spliced together (with no metal pin!!!). This too mimics the way that a good violin may be built. A cheap korean violin has a steel rod in the neck to keep it straight. This makes them sound awful and feel clunky. More expensive violins do not contain this metal rod. Either way, it's guaranteed that you won't find a violin that unscrews at the neck!!!
 
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Who are you quoting Fred?
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Whom am I quoting??? Well... I wasn't quoting anyone.

Ack. I pretty much made up my own argument, didn't I? Damn it.

Fred <~~~ okay, just shoot me.
 
Koop said:
Kevin, please don't take this the wrong way BUT, are you saying you cornered the market on making 2 piece cues that hit like 1 piece but others such as Barry Szamboti, Joel Hercek, etc... haven't? Am I reading into this too much?

Thanks,
Koop
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i'm not much on cue HISTORY, but wasn't the original purpose of a two piece was to make a cue portable? that being the case, at what point did the idea of emulating a one piece become important....because it certainly wasn't while everyone was making ss joints. joel , szam et.al. haven't even comtemplated emulating a one piece EXACTLY, else they would've been doing wood screws/wood joints ala 3c cues.

i mean, it would seem to me that a sneaky pete/wood screw/wood joint is as faithful a two piece as one could get, and any change in that joint takes you further from the one piece ideal. all cuemakers use different joints, screws, pins, bolts and do just about anything to be as faithLESS as possible to the one piece. the two piece i think has come into it's own as unique unto itself and nothing like a one piece. and by using different materials, i think cuemakers use that opportunity afforded by the two piece to enhance the cue experience rather than emulate an old ideal. want a sharper hit?,,,add an ivory joint...this could not be done with a one piece.

i can agree with some here that this accuracy cannot be substantiated. my first impression is that a person's grip will not change unless the new grip is substantially slipperier that their hand automatically grips harder. for most players, this means nothing imo, becasue most average players grip tight anyway. for other players,,,,well,,,they all grip looser differently. some grip loose but securely with two or three fingers....these players will not change their grip no matter what the handle material,,,they don't have to.

i think a majority of loose grip players tighten their grip slightly on the follow through. and there are others who hold the cue loosely but cup the cue fully with all five fingers, and their grip never changes through follow through, it is firm yet loose, and i don't think their grip would change under any circumstance. i am in this last group, and of all the grips, i would bet this is where most of us lay.

i never thought of loose/tight grip as a cause for accuracy as much as cause for cueball action. accuracy, imo, requires consistancy from beginning to end. for the vast #'s of players who grip tighter during their follow through, this a root cause of their problems because a change in grip is concomitant with a curling of the wrist = crooked swing.

BarenbruggeCues said:
*When you take a .020 cut out of the butt for the wrap area you are taking .040 off the butt section. This is going to change the way the cue responds. How much? ........another discussion perhaps as I try not to wander off the orginal question.
Common sense tells me .......less wood=less mass=more flex.
Dave
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i understand the point, but cannot agree from a practical pov. this only changes the way a cue responds versus what it would've been without a wrap. visa versa, if a cue is designed with a wrap, then not using one and leaving the cue unrouted ALSO changes the cuemaker's original intent. :) asking for an unwrapped 18oz cue is going to be different than a wrapped one. so,,,routing a grip compromises the cuemaker's original unwrapped template but it does not compromise the generic ideal of a one piece.
 
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Maybe its just me...
I hold the cue so loose that when using linen...my hand slips back & forth over the linen when stroking and the cue barely moves. I have to either squeeze the linen tighter...or what I do...hold onto the clearcoat behind the wrap...a la Corey D.
Leather is fine, wood handles are great. To me...the best is a satin (no 1/2 inch of auto clear) sneaky butt...where you can almost feel the wood.
Just my personal choice though.
I was once playing with a beautiful purpleheart Wes Hunter with linen..struggled for a while...picked up a new sneaky he sent me that was made by his son...played 3 balls better right then. The only way I like linen...is cleared over.
 
Varney Cues said:
Maybe its just me...
I hold the cue so loose that when using linen...my hand slips back & forth over the linen when stroking and the cue barely moves. I have to either squeeze the linen tighter...or what I do...hold onto the clearcoat behind the wrap...a la Corey D.
Leather is fine, wood handles are great. To me...the best is a satin (no 1/2 inch of auto clear) sneaky butt...where you can almost feel the wood.
.
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Same here but to me the best is just oil finish.
 
bruin70

bruin70 said:
i'm not much on cue HISTORY, but wasn't the original purpose of a two piece was to make a cue portable? that being the case, at what point did the idea of emulating a one piece become important....because it certainly wasn't while everyone was making ss joints. joel , szam et.al. haven't even comtemplated emulating a one piece EXACTLY, else they would've been doing wood screws/wood joints ala 3c cues.

i mean, it would seem to me that a sneaky pete/wood screw/wood joint is as faithful a two piece as one could get, and any change in that joint takes you further from the one piece ideal. all cuemakers use different joints, screws, pins, bolts and do just about anything to be as faithLESS as possible to the one piece. the two piece i think has come into it's own as unique unto itself and nothing like a one piece. and by using different materials, i think cuemakers use that opportunity afforded by the two piece to enhance the cue experience rather than emulate an old ideal. want a sharper hit?,,,add an ivory joint...this could not be done with a one piece.

i can agree with some here that this accuracy cannot be substantiated. my first impression is that a person's grip will not change unless the new grip is substantially slipperier that their hand automatically grips harder. for most players, this means nothing imo, becasue most average players grip tight anyway. for other players,,,,well,,,they all grip looser differently. some grip loose but securely with two or three fingers....these players will not change their grip no matter what the handle material,,,they don't have to.

i think a majority of loose grip players tighten their grip slightly on the follow through. and there are others who hold the cue loosely but cup the cue fully with all five fingers, and their grip never changes through follow through, it is firm yet loose, and i don't think their grip would change under any circumstance. i am in this last group, and of all the grips, i would bet this is where most of us lay.

i never thought of loose/tight grip as a cause for accuracy as much as cause for cueball action. accuracy, imo, requires consistancy from beginning to end. for the vast #'s of players who grip tighter during their follow through, this a root cause of their problems because a change in grip is concomitant with a curling of the wrist = crooked swing.



i understand the point, but cannot agree from a practical pov. this only changes the way a cue responds versus what it would've been without a wrap. visa versa, if a cue is designed with a wrap, then not using one and leaving the cue unrouted ALSO changes the cuemaker's original intent. :) asking for an unwrapped 18oz cue is going to be different than a wrapped one. so,,,routing a grip compromises the cuemaker's original unwrapped template but it does not compromise the generic ideal of a one piece.
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well i prefer a nylon wrap plus im trying to learn how to do this quote thing so pay no mind to me:confused:
 
Ok looks like i did it now i have to still figure out how to do the paragraph deal if i get into a long rant about something that i prolly no nothing about!
 
class act said:
Feedback is a very important part of pool, as much of pool is played by FEEL.
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Hey I want to ask you.. when is feedback important?

The reason I ask this, is I hear it as often as hit, at least in these boards. So anyways, feedback can only occur during and after contact. Correct me if I am wrong, at this point, I think its a little late to do anything about and information you might get back.

JV
 
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