Living in Pool Rooms (literally)

Celtic said:
I dont agree with the theory that morality did not exist in humans until 2500 years ago in the slightest, that is another one of those theoretical musings that an academic who wants to make a name for himself can throw out there that is totally unprovable and completely open to subjective reasoning and irrefutable by objective facts. You can chalk that guy right up there next to Erich Von Daniken, another self proclaimed academic who knows damn well that his "theories" are bogus but they sell books to the ignorant and amazed public so he keeps churning them out.

http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html
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To compare Von Daniken with Jaynes is a stretch, to say the least. He didn't like the attention his book caused and he didn't like the direction in which some took his theories....and he wasn't a "self-proclaimed academic," he was a professor at Yale.

Have you even read the book?

Jeff Livingston
 
Nah I read the summary on the page you linked where it said his main sources of reference were the bible and the Iliad, works I would be hard pressed to take as proof of any social consciousness. I am not a philosophy major or even a anthropologist, I am as you may be able to gather by the comparison I made an archaeologist. As such I would definitely question why a work such as Hammurabi's Laws would not be used in such a work as it IMO shows obvious evidence of a morality or a so called consciousness. One might be able to look at the times of Hammurabi and even his laws as a sign of a lack of morality due to their more sever nature but then you are opening up a Pandora's box inviting a person to bring forth modern examples of extreme actions and morally wrong actions of entire populations of people and claim that those people as individuals must be an archaic form of human with no consciousness or morality. What makes 2500 BP so important that he saw that as the date of enlightenment? As a person with a fairly decent understanding of ancient history I cannot really see a universal change such that one can say humans gained an ideology en masse at that very moment. I am very happy to debate this with you (actually you are causing me to procrastinate a little more on my thesis atm so you suck! but anyhow....) but you stated

Actually, as indicated in another thread, morality didn't exist in humans until about 2500 years ago when consciousness became the normal mode of thinking. This is an important thing to know when analyzing history.
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and that is a really strong assertion to make on a forum such as this where the average person is probably not a student of history and may take that claim as being an actual strongly supported theory or even fact as you stated it with extreme certainty. It is instead a highly debated and extremely fringe claim that by no means is anywhere nearly universally accepted enough to be presented as fact.
 
Celtic said:
<...>
and that is a really strong assertion to make on a forum such as this where the average person is probably not a student of history and may take that claim as being an actual strongly supported theory or even fact as you stated it with extreme certainty. It is instead a highly debated and extremely fringe claim that by no means is anywhere nearly universally accepted enough to be presented as fact.
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Hey, this could be in reference to a lot of pool advice :D

Dave, to whom 'where did I put my keys' is ancient history sometimes :(
 
Hey I knew a one time fish of mine.. who lived in his car in the parking lot of a pool hall.....Man you guys need to lighten up....
 
Cheesemouse - I live by The Golden Rule......

Cheesemouse - I have always professed & lived by The Golden Rule!

You see, I am a realist!

"THOSE WITH THE GOLD - MAKE THE RULES"!

TY & GL
 
The Kiss said:
Hey I knew a one time fish of mine.. who lived in his car in the parking lot of a pool hall.....Man you guys need to lighten up....
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A guy, that lived in his car, in the parking lot, was your fish?... Was it a Pacer? Pacers looked a lot like fish-bowls. ;) Those must have been some really high-stakes matches. LOL

Tracy
 
Celtic said:
You were not there either but then you "guarantee" I would not have done anything
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Why are you saying I wasn't there now? Where did you get that from? I was there, that poolhall used to be the place I practiced all the time. I knew who those guys were and what they were notorious for. They were members of a very large and violent street gang, and they didn't like white people like myself very much so I made it a point to keep my distance from them. There are other posters on this board who know how bad the poolhall used to be and what kind of people went there. If you don't believe me then just ask Melissa Herndon about the place I used to hang out at in the late 90's and ask her what kind of people went there. After 2000 the place cleaned up drastically and then shut down a few months ago.

And you cannot guarantee shit, you dont know me LastTwo just as much as I dont know you. You could be the biggest fucking poindexter geek weighing a whole 94.5 pounds and wearing glasses that make an antique coke bottle seem thin or you could be a 300 pound thug
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I still guarantee you wouldn't have done shit. I'm a college geek now and the most I've ever weighed was probably 150 and that was when I was in the Army. I don't wear glasses and never have needed to. For all I know you could either be internet tough guy who watches too many Steven Seagal movies and has fantasies about himself beating up 5 evildoers at once, or you could be some weirdo who has lost touch with reality and doesn't realize that there are people out there who are so fucked up in the head that they would murder someone for standing up to them if they could get away with it. Judging by what you have said so far, I have narrowed it down to those two. During my highschool-young adult years I had a brutal awakening as to how cruel and fucked up so many people are after two of my good friends were murdered the same year. I've lost a couple more friends since then and the most recent one was in 2002 which is still an unsolved murder case to this day.

Your tough guy attitude combined with your chicken shit approach to life where you wont stand up for decency or morals is comical.
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Tough guy attitude? It's called being honest, you should try it sometime you ignorant prick. I'm the nicest guy you will ever meet and I am known for my strong morals. You've got your morals mixed up with stupidity. I've stood up face to face with bully's twice my size and gotten the shit kicked out of me enough to know when I should stand up to someone and when I shouldn't. Mustard on a stranger's clothes is not worth me risking my life. It's not worth it to anyone, and if anyone had gone over there by themself and got beaten to a pulp, yes I would feel bad for them but I would also think of how stupid it was to risk your life over a condiment. Now, if the guys were beating the crap out of him, that's a completely different story.

I guess I came from better stock then you and people who stick up for themselves and the others that cannot stick up for themselves. I will continue to do so regardless of what a useless tit like you has to say about it LastTwo.
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You can go fuck yourself with that statement. Actually, I take that back, because your whole point in this argument is to fuck yourself. You are jerking your ego off creating a false image of yourself in front of everyone.

My father is a war hero who just had a newspaper article written about his experiences in battle and as a POW for memorial day. You call me a 'putz' and you are taking a jab at the family of someone you don't even know. If I had a bitch mentality like you are so eloquently displaying I might respond in kind and say something about your family, but I don't stoop that low.

You really need the wake the fuck up and stop living in la-la land. Your whole psychi probably revolves around your fake hero persona and it's obvious to me that you really lack the socialization it requires for someone to throw away the Van Damme hero bullshit and admit that your fake and pathetic principles you are pretending to live by will get you killed in any city as fucked up as Los Angeles. I didn't know the homeless guy. Sure I felt bad for him, but how do you know he wasn't a child molester, or a rapist, or a murderer? Would you shed your own blood because someone poured mustard on the clothing of a pedophile? How would you feel if you were hospitalized for months for intervening, and that same man who's dignity you protected was arrested for some sick heinous crime like raping and murdering someone? I'm sure you wouldn't come in here with the same bullshit mentality that you THINK you have. WAKE UP IDIOT :rolleyes:
 
It did not take long for this thread to go into the sewer. Let me say this, had I been there and I saw two turkeys doctor up a poor down and out homeless man with mustard when he was asleep, I would have gone out to my truck, brought in my ax handle and both turkeys would not be residents of the intensive care ward for the next month.

I live in Las Vegas close to the airport. There are people living all around me in broke down cars or old small airport buses. That is all they have. My heart goes out to them. I do not feel superior to these people, I fell sorry for them. When I make a hit on the tables, casino or pool hall, I drag out my grill and cook some poterhouses for them. Never judge a man, until you have walked a mile in his shoes. :D
 
ccriderone said:
...Never judge a man, until you have walked a mile in his shoes. :D
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You're obviously a good guy with a big heart, but I don't agree with your final sentence. Thankfully, most people never experience homelessness. Nonetheless, so many have seen it up close and know exactly what it's like. Sometimes, we must take the initiative to judge someone on appearance alone if we are sufficiently committed to helping out those who need it most. You don't have to experience homelessness to know how awful it is.
 
ccriderone said:
Let me say this, had I been there and I saw two turkeys doctor up a poor down and out homeless man with mustard when he was asleep, I would have gone out to my truck, brought in my ax handle and both turkeys would not be residents of the intensive care ward for the next month.
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What if there were five or six of them, and you knew they carried guns? Wait, before you respond, let me get ahold of the scriptwriters for Walker, Texas Ranger so you can give them some ideas for a new episode. I'm sure Chuck Norris will love what you've got to say.
 
sjm said:
You're obviously a good guy with a big heart, but I don't agree with your final sentence. Thankfully, most people never experience homelessness. Nonetheless, so many have seen it up close and know exactly what it's like. Sometimes, we must take the initiative to judge someone on appearance alone if we are sufficiently committed to helping out those who need it most. You don't have to experience homelessness to know how awful it is.
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Wow, a breath of fresh air finally from someone who's got a little street smarts.

There was this homeless guy who used to sleep behind a bus stop near a McDonalds and quite a few times me and a friend would buy the guy breakfast. He was a real nice guy too, and all the workers at McDonalds knew him. I hadn't seen him there in weeks so I asked about him and they said his son found him and took him in.

Compare that to another homeless guy who was always in front of the AM PM store that I used to give a couple dollars to when I had it. One day an employee at the store told me not to give him anything because he would just wait until you left and then buy liquor. Sure I understand the guy probably finds his only comfort in a beer bottle, but I don't feel good about contributing to someone's demise.

So which is smarter? To live by a principle of always giving a homeless man money when he asks for it, or throwing that principle out the window and realizing that it's better to deal with things differently depending on the situation and the circumstances (i.e. a homeless guy asking for money while chugging a 40oz). This is the exact reason why I think Celtic is full of shit. He wasn't there and doesn't know what kind of people they were, and he disregards the fact that he would have endangered his life, yet he still stands by his principle of protecting another man's dignity NO MATTER WHAT. Living by a principle and disregarding the situation and circumstance is BEYOND NAIVE AND STUPID. Saying "I would have done this if I were there" is about as spineless as you can get, because it's real easy to say whatever you want sitting behind a computer screen facing no real threat.

Is risking my life worth another man's clothing? Hell no. Is risking my life worth it when another person's life is THREATENED? Yes.
 
Most definately my last post on this inept thread (unless a response to the morality 2500 BP comes forth).

LastTwo in your initial post you said bugger fuck all about the guy being gangbanging psychos and called them instead "pool hall regulars" and made the story look very much like Joe the sunday tournament player and his beer buddies deciding to pour mustard on a bum. When someone shows their disgust to the action and claims they "would not stand by" you immediately write this epic paragraph about the guys being tatooed gansters who kill people for fun and that I now somehow have visions of granduer with your fucking retarded movie plot comparison. What I initially posted was pretty casual and it did not at all go into specifics of WHAT I would do, and it of course did not take into account or have the information that you left out that the "pool hall regulars" were much more aptly described as "gangbanging psychos with guns". Would my actions be different with Joe and his beer buddies whoa re not liable to kill me then a group of gangsters with guns and a complete disregard for human life? No fucking shit they would be but then that is information you only coughed up after the fact in a lame fucking post trying to paint me as some guy with a hero complex when I instead was assuming that the "pool hall regulars" would not be those 5% of "pool hall regulars" that are not who I would even describe as "pool hall regulars" and instead describe them as "local gangsters who frequented the pool hall to sell drugs". You first response to me was way off base due to your total fucking ommition of all the "facts" that you then attacked me with in response.

This whole thread was akin to

LastTwo "Gee I once watched a kid pour gasoline on a stray dog and light it on fire, I felt so bad for the dog"

Celtic "Jesus H, Christ, I dont think I would have stood by and simply watched that"

LastTwo "Oh look at the big fucking hero, I did not mention that kid had a 9mm and was with 40 gangbangers all armed with chains and knives who all know jujitsu! I can just see you wading into the 41 gangsters and killing them all like Jet Li gone mad. You are so fucking tough to go wading into those 41 gangsters and fight for that dogs life Celtic, you are clearly fucking delusional and have visions of granduer!"

Do you see LastTwo how fucking retarded that chain of discussion is? You put out this light little quip and make the scene out to be completely fucking different then the actuality of the situation and then attack a pretty light comment of "I dont think I would have simply stood by" with this sudden huge elevation of the situation into a guns and weapons and crazy psychos. I dont know, maybe you think I was attacking your inaction, I was not, you did not partake in the event and found it funny that the guys doing the damage got theirs. You could have responded to my post with "Oh, yeah but I did not mention that those guys were actually gang members all armed to the teeth who loved to kill or main people who step on their toes in any way" and I would have no problem admitting that the situation changes at that point but instead you go on a fucking tirade putting all this new info out there as if I am somehow supposed to know that the "pool hall regulars" are actually a bunch of gangsters and killers and that my original post was supposed to paint me as some sort of Billy Jack type of character with no fear of anyone. I would have been standing back right along with you in the situation you mention in your second post when the mustard pranksters evolved into psycho killers armed to the teeth but then I did not know that shit when I made my first post that you attacked and attempted to make me look like a delusional fool with due to my lack of important facts that you left out that make your original post nothing more then a bait for you to go on a tirade as you have on this thread trying to paint me as something I am most definately not.
 
LastTwo said:
What if there were five or six of them, and you knew they carried guns? Wait, before you respond, let me get ahold of the scriptwriters for Walker, Texas Ranger so you can give them some ideas for a new episode. I'm sure Chuck Norris will love what you've got to say.
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Punks who take the time to cover poor homeless people with mustard dont pack heat, but i do. :D
 
ccriderone said:
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Punks who take the time to cover poor homeless people with mustard dont pack heat, but i do. :D
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Here is the deal, If I see you pour gas on a dog and toss a match, I be cool, I go to my trunk, get my ax handle and you spend the next month in the intensive care ward wired up in traction, you gonna love the new steel plate in your head.
:D
 
ccriderone said:
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Here is the deal, If I see you pour gas on a dog and toss a match, I be cool, I go to my trunk, get my ax handle and you spend the next month in the intensive care ward wired up in traction, you gonna love the new steel plate in your head.
:D
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Not in LastTwo's world. That person that poured the gas and lit the match is suddenly doing so in the heart of his own gangs private turf and 40 of his friends are all sitting there watching it with sub machine guns over their shoulder. And that dog you are trying to save? It is actually a pitbull that it turns out that has just killed 3 innocent kids who were playing in the park. So you are suddenly Paul Kersey killing 41 heavily armed gangsters in the heart of their turf trying to save a killer dog that has just mauled innocent kids.

I am an animal lover but I think I am going to take the LastTwo stance of supreme street smarts and say I would "not" wade into the 41 sub machine gun weilding gangsters to save the crazy killer dog. Of course it takes a life of hard knocks to know such actions are not smart as LastTwo has told us, most naive people would go wading into the thick of things and save the dog and just like in the movies they would walk off slowly into the sunset with their new dog "Spot" by their side.... chewing on the legbone of a young child.
 
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Nostroke said:
Could be-Did you ever lose $10 in a 3 way game in a place on rte 303 to some old bald bastard who couldnt play dead?
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You bet your ass I did!!! And proud of it!

You know? All of this time on the AZ forums and I had no clue that you were Nostroke! So, if you're Nostroke, I guess that makes me Really-really-weird-stroke. Right? :D

See you at Jim's or O-town Davey!

PS- Stroke or no stroke, Davey can still pocket balls! ;)
 
Celtic, I was a little rash in my first response to you. We argued in another thread so when you said "There is no way I would have just stood there and let that happen" I took that as an insult, as if you were calling me a coward. I got frustrated because I was there and knew the circumstances and you did not, which is why I "went off" in that post. I felt you were indirectly calling me a coward or something, which you did in your next post. Naturally I responded even more angry and that's how it escalated. I wasn't lying about what type of people were regulars at that poolhall. Like I said in one of my posts, you can ask someone else on this board who knows me and knows what that poolhall was like before it got cleaned up.
 
LastTwo said:
Celtic, I was a little rash in my first response to you. We argued in another thread so when you said "There is no way I would have just stood there and let that happen" I took that as an insult, as if you were calling me a coward. I got frustrated because I was there and knew the circumstances and you did not, which is why I "went off" in that post. I felt you were indirectly calling me a coward or something, which you did in your next post. Naturally I responded even more angry and that's how it escalated. I wasn't lying about what type of people were regulars at that poolhall. Like I said in one of my posts, you can ask someone else on this board who knows me and knows what that poolhall was like before it got cleaned up.
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If Nat is talking about Billiard Connection in Northridge I can vouch for how messed up it was. The first time I went to a 9ball tournament there I came out and my car that was parked right in front had a bullet hole through two of the windows. I went back one more time and someone came into the poolhall and was shooting at someone else. I ducked behind the last table where an Asian guy asked me if i could see the black guy with the gun. I asked if he was after him and he said yes. I took off behind another table. After that night I didn't go back for a couple of years until some players convinced me the place was cleaned up.

Wayne
 
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